Trickin' Das Sprinter - Teil Zwei

Turtle · Jul 7, 2007

(Trickin' The Sprinter - Part Two)

A long overdue follow-up to the Sway Bar and Koni Shocks installation.

I installed the sway bar, and night and day is right. It's a different vehicle. These heavy duty anti-sway bars should be standard OEM, or at the very least the very first thing a new Sprinter owner should fix. The rollover feeling when negotiating 'S' curves is gone. The rock 'n roll of the ruts in the road when pulling out of a truck stop and back out onto the road is dramatically reduced. A big truck passing you, or visa versa, no longer jerks the steering wheel out of your hands. Strong crosswinds result in a gentle nudge instead of a dramatic kick.

I installed the Koni shocks and struts two weeks later specifically so that I could judge their performance difference without being too influenced by the sway bar if I had installed them at the same time. The Koni's resulted in another night and day kind of thing. What roll or sway that still remained with heavy crosswinds is pretty much eliminated. The rut rock and roll is a faint memory. No front end dips when stopping, either.

Standard OEM and after market shocks generally need replacing at about 60,000 miles, anyway, so my originals at 90,000 were more than wore out. That may be a part of such a dramatic difference the Koni's make. The Koni's won't smooth out Detroit or Chicago, but they make it a lot smoother than the OEM's did when new. They're very heavy duty, and are set at about 85%, because you need that when loaded. The high setting and the 55 front / 80 rear tire pressure make the unloaded ride a little bumpy, but not bad at all, especially with the nitrogen in the tires that helps smooth out the ride. But, I can live with a little bumpiness, especially since a loaded ride is so much more smooth. Those using a Sprinter as a passenger van will almost certainly use lower tire pressures, which will definitely smooth out the ride, but with expediting, lower tire pressures destroy the load rating of the tires.

I took some time off when doing all this and took the opportunity to make some other improvements. Mostly minor, some major. I added a bug shield on the front and added the window rain guards. Both made dramatic improvements. I also had the side windows tinted, which in some ways may be the most dramatic improvement of all. It resulted in a major cooling of the interior, and nearly eliminates the sun glare problem when the sun is low and comes in the passenger or driver side window.

I also finished insulating the van, and re-insulated some parts. The rear doors and the side sliding door had not yet been insulated, as well as the exposed white parts along the sides where the cargo lights are. I used this time to re-insulated the side walls, as well, running the silver bubble-pack all the way up, creating a sealed barrier between the gray side panels and the foam insulation on the walls.

A couple of notes about insulating the doors. There are serviceable electronic parts in there, so be careful what you bury under canned foam. Also, on the driver-side rear door, there is the lock-bar mechanism where a long rod sticks an inch or so out of the bottom of the door, and the one that sticks out of the top of the door. These catch and secure the door closed. You might want to, uhm, sort of avoid letting the canned foam ooze its way into the area surrounding those lock rods. hehe Also, the latch that the lock rods are pinned to can and will fill with foam, resulting in a frozen piece of sculpture. The only fix is to remove the latch and scrape away the foam, and then white grease it. Actually, that turned out to be a good thing, cause that latch was always hard to open. Once cleaned and greased up, it's an easy open latch now.

But, and this is a big but, if you do take the latch mechanism off, which is brain-dead easy to do and not any trouble at all, before you remove the first screw on the latch, take a vice grip and lock it onto the inch or so of the top lock rod that protrudes out the top of the door. If you fail to do this, as soon as you remove the latch mechanism the top lock rod will drop like a brick (or rather, like a long heavy rod of solid steel, which is exactly what it is). You will not be able to thread that rod back up into the hole in the top of the door. Trust me on this.

And the rods aren't straight. They are crooked bent and even snaking it down through the top of the door is harder than Chinese arithmetic, if you can eventually get it out of the opening where the latch mechanism is. Vise Grip. I mean it. (of course, it tells you all this in the Service Manual, which, of course, I read fully after the lock rod dropped like a brick).

I also spent time building shelves for the van. A lot of time. I'm no carpenter, but I do know my way around a piece of wood. The more I got into this the harder it got. Nothing inside the van is square, there are no right angles. A bubble type level is useless because even if you could park the van in such a way that the floor is level, as soon as you get into the cargo are it's no longer level. Getting the brackets that held the shelves not only level with each other, but level relative to the floor was a tour de force in tedium, particularly in the no-rain 95 degree heat that was present the entire time I worked on all this.

Level brackets and shelves were a piece of cake compared to the supports that held everything. The van walls are curved, and as it turns out each support (6 of them) has a different curve. So a stencil of sorts was out of the question. Each support was a different depth, as are all of the shelves. And as you can see from the pics below, that 1-foot high "skid guide" side wall bows out at the wheel wells, so the depth of the shelves and the supports vary all along the length of that thing. At the wheel well the depth between the van wall and the inside of the skid guide is 8 1/2 inches, and at the back door it is 7 1/2 inches. That's on the passenger side. On the driver's side it's different by half an inch.

Even the length of the shelves from front to back is different on the driver and passenger side. One is 74 1/2 and the other is 74 3/4. There are no two pieces of wood that are the same size. Each piece is truly customized for its place. Each shelf will only fit right where it is.

Just slappin' up 2x4's to get right angles and go from there was not an option, as that would have resulted in shelves that were about 4 inches deep everywhere. The supports also needed to be close enough to the walls in order to secure them properly. The supports were secured with brackets at the cargo light level, at the middle, and onto the floor, as well as a screw driven through the skid guide. The shelves were secured to the supports with 4 brackets each. No squeaks.

I also spray painted something called Plasti-Dip onto the tops of the shelves. Plasti-Drip is rubber. Plasti-Dip comes in a regular paint can-like thing where you can dip tools and stuff into it to coat them. It also comes in a spray can like spray paint. 4-6 heavy coats (unlike 2-3 light coats for regular paint) is needed. The rubber coated shelves reduce rattling, and things simply won't slide around. They'll fall over, but they won't bounce or slide all over the place. I finished it all off with lips on the front of the shelves to keep things from flying all over the van with each turn. So far, nothing has fallen off.

On the passenger side you'll see the holes and the air intake hose for the Espar heater. It's mounted on the floor in front of the wheel well and just behind the bunk. I also built a box enclosure to keep it covered up and protected.

Posted pics of the left rear door, but the other door and sliding door, as well as the walls and roof, were insulated the same way.

I couldn't get any pictures to upload directly, regardless of filesize or dimension. And other than thumbnails, no direct links would work, either, regardless of filesize or dimensions. Pooey. So, here are thumbnails, with the link to each full-sized picture right below it (couldn't get clickable thumbnails to work, neither). Also, at the very bottom, there are two links, one to the gallery of the photos at full size (2-3MB in size) and one to a gallery of the pics where they are all less than 100k each, but roughly 1024x768.

Both galleries also have a picture of someone who kept eying me from just inside the barn. You'd never know from the picture, and I certainly didn't know until I went to change batteries in the camera and he came on out, but he's between 5-7 feet long and as big around as a baseball bat. You'll never see it in the thumbnail. For some reason, we don't have any rats or mice around the barn.

Any questions about anything you see, just let me know.

The door:
Remember - Vise Grip!

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In the full-size pic you can make out FoamFly. I wouldn't recommend it, but that canned foam, once it reaches a certain state, makes a great fly paper. (I did finally remove FoamFly before installing the silver bubble pack. I had too many Edgar Allen Poe thoughts running through my head to actually go through with it. hehe) I was more worried about keeping the foam off the license plate lights that I never gave a second's thought about the foam getting into the latch mechanism and lock rod areas. Whoops.

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The bubble-pack, every seam sealed with foil tape
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Tape detail, and a featured shot of the latch mechanism that came off in 15 seconds, but because I didn't secure the lock rod with a vise grip, and the canned foam oozed into the mechanism, it didn't go back on the door until a day and a half later.

LDB · Jul 7, 2007

That looks really good. It looks like a month's worth of work. I wish I was good at things like that but having two left thumbs makes it way too much fun to try things like that. Congratulations on getting all that done. You may be hearing from folks who want to hire you to do theirs.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

terryandrene · Jul 7, 2007

Turtle:

Great job of trickin' the Sprinter and a great job in showing your handiwork. Thanx for sharing and happy sprintin'

The Enemy · Jul 7, 2007

2 questions...lol

How much?

When can you install the shelves in mine?

really good job, this is exactly what I want to do to my sprinter.

OntarioVanMan · Jul 7, 2007

One question: Is it at least 48" all the way up to the roof from the selves? With the concave walls in the sprinter I had a problem with my microwave self with them big plastic autobins double stacked 66" high.

Packmule · Jul 7, 2007

Turtle,

GREAT JOB!!!!!
Looks very good, neat and functional.

Danny

jaminjim · Jul 7, 2007

It sure looks like a " Job Well Done"

davekc · Jul 7, 2007

Nice job to say the least.

Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

Turtle · Jul 7, 2007

OVM:
Yeah, it's at least 48" all the way up. 48 1/2" all the way up, in fact.

The narrowest spot between the skid guides, from the wheel wells on forward to the bunk, is 48 1/2". At the stage where I had the supports and shelves installed, but weren't yet painted, I measured the width between them all the way up. The supports closest to the bunk started getting narrow about 2/3 of the way up, and ended at the top where they were only 47" wide. Whoops. I had to shave off a half an inch wedge from each support. The middle supports at the wheel wells, I had to shave off 1/4" from each support from about the top 1/3.

They aren't perfectly square to the floor, but it's real close. The skid guide wall is 1/2" OSB board. (I'd much rather have used plywood, but it's 9 feet, and plywood only comes 8 feet long.) I knew as long as I didn't let the supports curve out beyond the skid guides that the 1/2" thickness would give me enough wiggle room to add the 1/4" lips on each side, and still keep things wide enough for the freight.

It was real tough getting all that right. You can eyeball things only so much, and the combination of the van wall curves, different curves for each support, it turned out, and the curve of the skid guide wall, which added to making each support a different depth, made for quite a challenging project. Mind-numbing, time-consuming, frustration is what it accomplished.

Add to that the fact that traditional tools like T-Squares, levels, even a lasr level, was useless, and that I really didn't have all the right tools for the job. Looking back on it, I should have just gone ahead and bought a table saw and band saw for the project. I had a jigsaw and a circular saw, and a sander, and a couple of drills.

Cutting a straight line with a circular saw is possible, but it's definitely a skill you loose if you don't use, and I hadn't used it since probably high school. Some of those lips are 3 or 3 1/2" wide by 74 3/4" long. That's a real booger with a hand-held circular saw on 1/4" plywood. I used a cutting guide (2 50" pieces of metal that you can clamp together to make it 100" long) that made it easier, but it was very time consuming. You draw the cut line, then measure the distance from the blade to the guide, then clamp down the guide and make the cut. In my case, the distance from the cut line to the guide was either 30mm or 33mm depending on which side of the pencil line I wanted to cut. Making all those measurements, setting everything up, then measuring again, it took probably 45 minutes for each cut. And if I wanted to cut another 3" strip, I had to do all that again. With a table saw, I could have made all those cuts in 5 minutes, instead of 5 hours.

A band saw would have been much better for the curves of the supports, rather than a jigsaw and then using a sander, at least for me it would have. On a couple of the supports I cut the curve too tight, not enough board to get close enough to the wall, and I needed it to be close enough to get the brackets in. So, rather than a bunch of trial and error with relatively expensive wood, I used Bondo to build back up the curve. On one of the first photos of the first two supports (shot from inside the van) you can see on the passenger side support that there's more than an inch of Bondo at the widest part of the curve. You can also see where I had to fill in the holes from where the knots fell out of the wood.

My first two loads after coming back out were a couple of hand carried boxes. Didn't test the width of the space, but it did test the rubber on the shelves and how well the lips worked. The next load was two boxes containing two commercial ovens, each one was 68" high, and exactly 48 1/2" wide, and 54" long. My freight capability dimensions are 69" x 48 1/2" x 108", and the boxes fit like they were designed for my van.

(Incidentally, I delivered these on July 2, same day as the Panther picnic, to the under-construction new high school at Marathon, Florida, about 2/3 the way down from Miami to Key West. Yeah, I did. Spent a day and a half down there. Then I got a load back out of FL up to Arkansas, kewl.)

All in all I'm very pleased with the shelves. First and foremost I wanted them to be sturdy and functional, no squeaks, and could stand up to at least a little banging from forklift operators. So far so good. I also wanted them to look good, for obvious and many reasons, but mainly because if they look good, it lessens the chance of a forklift operator being a little too careless.

I had a cabinetmaker tell me that it would have taken him 4-5 days to do this, and that's with a partner (and all the right tools, not to mention experience). It took me 10 days. Part of that was wasted running back and forth to Lowes, sometimes 3 times in a single day, and part of it was wasted trying to rest in that heat. You do something for 15 minutes and then you need 20 minutes to recover. I worked from 6 or 7 AM until dark, every day. (Plus the 5 or 6 days it took to re-insulate the van. That upper gray panel on the sliding door is a thing to behold, getting it on and off.)

A lot of the work on this was like working on the Space Shuttle - you can't get to it, and when you can, you have no leverage. And it wears you out very quickly in that heat. Some of the brackets under the shelves, especially around the wheel wells, you can't get to with a drill, so I used a snake adapter and a 45 degree adapter for the drill on some of them. The support next to the Espar heater, you can't even get your hand down in there at the floor to use a hand screwdriver on the brackets, so I had to use a 12" magnetic bit extender to get to that. Another trip to Lowes.

I'm glad I did it, but I wouldn't want to do it again, at least not without the right tools, and probably a partner to help. Imagine trying to balance those 74" long strips to get them in place along the shelves, and level and even with the sides, just so you can mark the places where you need to drill holes for screws. hehe

I took a day to figure out that I can't figure out how to measure and duplicate the curve of the walls, the indent at the top, and the upward slant of the roof, in order to build a cabinet hanging from the ceiling/wall next to the microwave and printer. Even my cabinetmaker friend shook his head to that one. I'll get it, though.

What these shelves do is empty out the storage space under the bunk, and gives me the room for the deep cycle batteries I'll be installing, and then a DC air conditioner. Was gonna do that this spring, but had to get these shelves done first. Looks like the air conditioner may have to wait until next spring at this point. I was out of service for exactly 4 weeks doing all this. Sway bar, shocks, maintenance, other assorted stuff, shelves, insulation. It's not in the pictures, but I also added three 8" and one 12" florescent lights. And I redid the ductwork on the heater, adding a "Y" to the heat output and routing some heat forward and rearward through the bunk. That was another Space Shuttle type of thing, working where you can't get to anything, and no leverage when you do, a lot of it blind. But the ductwork is contained in a compact space that allows for enough space for the batteries, inverter, and busbars and stuff.

What the heck. Hang on a sec and let me take some more pictures.
... ... ... ...
... ... ... ..
OK, I'm back.

Under the bunk, the Espar duct work. The Y lets some shoot straight through the bunk, and one hose is routed out the back of the bunk. I insulated the ducts and put that passive vent right by them to keep the heat inside the bunk to a minimum, in order to keep the batteries from cooking down there. You can also see my trusty Dirt Devil, the most powerful handheld vacuum in the world, or so they say. I also keep an extra pair of shoes down in there.
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The other side of the bunk. The box there currently contains three cheap yellow top marine batteries from Wal Mart. The inverter is a 2000 watt temporary one, and will be replaced with the 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter that needs some work done on it.

Yes, I built the bunk myself. That one was relatively easy, since it was made of right angles.

It's wedged in tight, and secured. It ain't movin'. It acts as a 30" high bulkhead of sorts. The drawback, of course, is that it won't move, and I have to climb over it to get into the back, but that is preferable to a permanent bulkhead that would prevent me from getting in front of the freight to properly secure it. Plus, after living in that short wheelbase Ford for so long, I wanted a permanent bunk and I wanted it to look and feel like Montana in here.
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A view of my current load. Fits like a glove.

You can see two of the florescent lights, one on the left above the shelves, and one above the doors. You can also see that I have changed the oil since the other pics were taken. Half a quart left.
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Here you can see the heater vent at the front of the bunk. It comes out at a 45 degree angle and can be directed where I want it. One of these days I'll paint the rest of the bunk. The bed is a 6" regular foam mattress, with a 3" memory foam topper. It's actually too high, as it needs to be 6" including the memory foam, which was added as an afterthought. I'll fix that one of these days. A sleeping bag tops it off. Between the seat back and the MicroFridge is where I fold up and store the windshield sun reflector. You can also see that there is juuuuust enough room for my briefcase between the bunk and the MicroFridge. Everything in this van has been very calculated. Well, except that ratty old desk/box where the passenger seat used to be. I pulled that out of the Ford when I got the Sprinter. I'll build another one one of these days, but until then this one is very functional.
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A better shot of the MicroFridge (refrigerator, frost-free freezer, and microwave). Industrial Velcro holds the printer/scanner securely in place. Right by the roll of paper towels, sitting in the triangles bracket, is a power strip. There is also a power strip under the edge of the desk. The silver hook hanging down from the top front edge is where I hang my clothes. The space to the left of the microwave is where I plan on putting the kitchen cabinet.
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The above pics are all the reduced ones. If someone wants the full-size pics, you can find those added to the full size Gallery link above.

RLENT · Jul 8, 2007

Ken,

That's absolutely just an outstanding job ! The degree of effort you took to "do it right" says alot. (BTW, I've heard it said that marine ships' carpenters eventually go insane .... from having to work with no straight lines or right angles

)

Thanks for the report on the Koni's ..... glad you waited on installing them so you could measure the difference they made specifically, as opoosed the swaybar. I was sorta on the fence about whether to install them or not .... it seems they would certainly be a worthwhile addition.

And one final comment (and a thank you) on your oil filter change interval (every 5000 mi I think) which you reported in a previous thread - that's probably a very wise idea - I just did my first oil & filter change using the ASSYST system - I got about a 15K mile change interval ..... but when I pulled the filter to change it was starting to collaspe inward ....

Clearly, given the cost of the oil, and the price of the filters (if you buy them right) changing them more frequently (5K, 7.5K or whatever) is the better way to go .... good call.

dieseldoctor1 · Jul 8, 2007

Turtle,

Nice Job! I know you will enjoy having all that shelf space. It sure makes life easier out on the road. A place for everything and everything in itâ€™s place. If I could remember where itâ€™s place is lol. Hell to get old.
I can also sympathize with you on getting the support outlines cut correctly. My Aerocell walls were the same. No and I mean no straight places. I think the floor is the only straight line in the whole van.
For shelf supports I used posts instead of solid supports for two reasons. First they were easier and second they are much lighter. That being said I still had to contour the back of the shelves to the shape of the van walls. One easy way to transfer a contour is a drawing compass. Let the sharp point of the compass follow the contour and the pencil end will mark a board or what ever to the same shape. Now most drawing compasses are too small to do the job you and I needed done so I made my own. Took a scrap piece of Â½â€ plywood about an inch wide and 3â€™ long and sharpened one end. Then drilled a hole at about the length I needed so that a pencil would fit into it snug.
To use it you support the working stock at a distance from the contour so that the pencil is just on the edge that will be cut when compass point is where the shelf will be the widest and the side that will remain straight is parallel to the plane it will be in when installed. Compass should always be held at right angles to the straight edge of board. I will include a link to some pictures that show this. Hope they make it a little clearer. I had my pictures on Yahoo but they are closing their photo service so these are on Photobucket. Hope they work. I will also try to attach them here but havenâ€™t been able to get them to attach lately. Does anyone know why?
Anyway with the board supported you hold the compass at right angles and slide it along the contour and the pencil will transfer the contour to the board. Then cut the line. Makes it very easy to get a snug fit
You did a super job but this little trick could have saved you a lot of time. I know, now I tell you lol. Iâ€™ve meant to put this on here for a long time but just never got it done.
Iâ€™m transferring all my photos from Yahoo to Photobucket but donâ€™t know when they will get there. Here is the link. If it wonâ€™t work by clicking on it just copy and paste it in your address bar.

http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z59/dieseldoctor_1/Marking shortcut/

Happy trucking! Dieseldoctor

PS Just as I thought pics wouldn't load. Hope they work on Photobucket.

Turtle · Jul 8, 2007

dieseldoctor1"

Thanks for the tip on the homemade compass. Something along those lines is what I was wishing for for the vertical supports. The horizontal shelves didn't really present any problems insofar as the curves were concerned. The front to back slope wasn't significant enough to mess with. Each shelf is about 35 inches or so, and all I did was push them up tight against the wall, and the plastic panel gave enough to ensure a snug fit. Of course, they hung out in front all over the place. But all I had to do was use a straight edge and mark a cut line from one support to the other across the shelf, then cut away the line. What was left was a perfect fit, or at least certainly close enough that the lips would cover up any 1/8" or so gaps that were there on a couple of them.

I'll probably use something along the lines of a compass when I do the kitchen cabinet. I'll hang that from the ceiling, between the Fantastic Fan and the wall, right next to the microwave and printer. It'll be supported from the two beams, which can be seem in one of the pictures of the MicroFridge, the darkened areas along the ceiling. The beams are 25" apart, so it'll make for a wide cabinet, but it's not going to come down much more than a foot, just about the same height as the microwave. I need plenty of clearance when I raise the lid to the bunk. Plus, underneath the cabinet may be where I mount a fold-down flatscreen TV.

I'll hang two pieces for the sidewalls of the cabinet, and secure them in at least two places on the ceiling beams, and then in at least two places on the van wall. The cabinet will have a bottom, but the van wall will serve as the back of the cabinet.

The walls curve up, and the ceiling slopes upward towards the middle, and of course, each side piece of the cabinet has two different curves. You can't see it in my pics, but you can in a van without the silver bubble pack - the ceiling beams are different as they curve down along the side walls up there. One of them stays behind the white metal strip where the cargo lights are, and the other one stays out in front of it. So the hardest part will be getting a board secure and steady with the front edge perpendicular to the floor, while marking it for the wall curves and the ceiling slope. Should be interesting.

RLENT:
Yeah, I figured if I was gonna do it, might as well do it right (or at least as right as I know how hehe). I gotta tell ya, in that heat, there were soooo many times I wanted to cut corners and go with "good enough". But I'm glad I didn't give in. I'm very pleased with them. I expect them to get banged up a bit, of course, but hopefully it will be the lips that take the most beating, as they are relative easy to replace (not that I'm looking forward to it).

On the Koni's, absolutely, they make a tremendous difference, especially since the OEM shocks are gonna be toast after 60,000 miles anyway, and probably sooner considering the weights we haul around all the time. I think mine wore out around the 40,000 mile mark, actually. I don't think I'd recommend replacing the shocks and struts on a new van with the Koni's until the OEM shocks start to go, however. But when it comes time to replace the shocks, it doesn't make much sense to replace them with shocks that will have to be replaced again in another 6-8 months. Might as well replace them with the Koni's, which are adjustable, and guaranteed for life.

The oil filter change. I was doing it at somewhere between 5000 and 7500, but found that right at 5000 is the time to do it. Keep the filter changed and the oil stays much cleaner much longer. I buy the filters off eBay 10 at a time. I think they're like $6.90 each, including shipping, that way.

Another tip: Some people advocate hand tightening the filter as tight as practical, thereby eliminating the need for a filter wrench on future filter changes, as you'll be able to unscrew it by hand after that. Same folks also say another reason, maybe the main reason, for hand tightening is to not over tighten the filter, which can break the seal on the large o-ring.

Wrong.

From personal experience, and confirmation from my Sprinter tech at home, a hand-tightened oil filter will leak oil almost every time. Trick is, and it's what they are taught at Sprinter Technical College, is to hand tighten and then use a wrench and tighten it until it won't turn anymore, without putting so much pressure on the wrench handle that you move the van. If you look at the filter cap you'll see that it really can't be overtightened, unless that's your goal, and it'll take more than a hand held wrench to do it.

So basically, hand tightened and then give it another 1/2 to one turn with a wrench.

First week I was off to get all this stuff done, I took mine in to have him look at it cause I noticed it was leaking oil when I installed the shocks and struts (something I highly recommend you not do yourself, btw). He showed me the problem, then showed me how to tighten it.

Also, another reason I took it in was because there were a few times there right before I went out of service that I'd be idling, to charge batteries or whatever, and the van would just die. As it the fuel were cut off. It threw some error codes, things like Fuel Volume Sensor Low, Fuel Rail Sensor, Fuel Rail Volume Pressure Low, scary things. If it was the fuel rail sensor, well, you can't just replace the sensor, you have to replace the entire fuel rail, which is like $800. It turned out to be exactly what I (and he) thought it was - a dirty fuel filter. I tried to squeeze too many miles out of the fuel filter. The manual says 20,000, Chrysler amended that to 10,000, I tried to get 30,000. Got it, too, but at low fuel volumes (at idle) it wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine.

He changed the fuel filter, and walked me through it step by step as he did so, so that I could change it myself next time. Not many dealer service technicians will do that.

LDB · Jul 8, 2007

OK, dumb questions but what the heck. How much curve is there floor to ceiling if you were to drop a plumb line from the top of the wall? I'm just curious about whether you could build shelves all on 90 degrees and then fill the area behind with insulation or whatever.

Also, if I understand right you are changing the oil filter only every 5k and the oil itself at greater intervals. What interval and do you get an analysis done with changes?

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

Turtle · Jul 9, 2007

Leo, well, the bottom shelf is about 8 1/2 inches, and the top shelf is about 4 1/2 inches. Unfortunately, the curve isn't a constant one. It's close, though. As it come up from the floor is starts curving in, then goes back out a bit at the center horizontal seam/beam, then goes back out a bit, then at the place where the cargo lights are, it's a different curve completely, more straight up, then it juts out and starts curving up towards the roof. It's really weird. If you did a straight shot from floor to ceiling at the walls, there would be a lot of room between the supports and the uppermost part of the walls where they curve into the roof, and you'd probably be able to stick your foot in the space between the wall and the support at the wides curvature.

And the widest curvature is exactly where the extra metal is on a sidewall beam where brackets needed to go. That was the problem, in being able to get these things truly secure so they wouldn't rattle and squeak, be sturdy enough to handle the bumps of the road and the occasional bump from a forklift driver, and so they simply wouldn't fall apart over time. Plus, I wanted it to look good.

You probably could just drop a plumb line and build supports from that for the supports nearest the freight, then run another set of poles up the sidewall. The poles nearest the sidewall would be anywhere from semi-flush with the wall at the floor to 6 inches away from the wall at the middle, and narrow on and it goes up.

You'd certainly have a problem getting the supports secured, in that unless you used some really long brackets to secure them at the middle as well, they would only be secured at the floor and at the top (by the cargo lights). Even with the shelves installed and everything secured to everything else, there would still likely be a pivot point where everything could be "folded" forward or rearward, like a page in a book. One stray hit almost anywhere on the shelves by an inexperienced forklift operator and that's exactly what would happen. hehe

Mine, with the shelves not installed, the supports have no pivot point. They are secured on the walls at the top and at the middle, which if that's all I did would certainly give them a pivot point. I also bracketed them to the floor, about the midpoint of the supports. That pretty much eliminates the pivot point, but to be sure I drove a screw threw the "skid guide" into the supports, as well. The skid guide, the one-foot high wall running the length of the deck, is bracketed to the floor at the rear door, in between that and the wheel wells, to the wheel wells, and midway between the wheel wells and the bunk, then again secured at the bunk. It's been beaten up pretty good by some forklift operators, and it ain't going anywhere. So between that and the walls of the van, they shelving is about as secure as its gonna get. I just don't think you can get it that way with pole supports.

That's my thinking, anyway. It seemed to be that "bookshelf" type shelving was the way to go. There's a definite trade off between sturdy and secure, and the weight, of course. The shelves, the wood, screws, brackets, paint, everything, weighs in at just about 150 pounds. I actually tried out wire shelving for a little bit, but there simply wasn't any way to get it as secure as I wanted, much less as sturdy as I wanted. I was constantly having to mess with it. These are about as close to being a permanent part of the van as you can get.

It was all built with being tough in mind, as much as being functional. Also, it was built with being repaired in mind. I expect it to get beat up a little. But more than likely, most of the dings and such are going to happen to the lips, which are all relatively easy to repair or replace. But of course, the lips don't cover all of the freight-side exposed edges of the supports. It's hard to see it in the pictures, but in the pics where I show the shelves with stuff on them, on the supports nearest the doors, the exposed parts of those two supports, at least the bottom sections between the "skid guide" and the bottom of the first lip, were covered with strips of lip material, and screwed in. If those supports are gonna be hit by a skid while the van is being loaded, it's probably gonna happen right around there. Rather than have the support itself get gashed, I can easily replace a 1/4" thick strip of the lip material.

But again, the biggest issue with the curve and getting the supports as close as possible was getting them close enough so that I could secure brackets to them.

As for the oil and filter changes, yeah, I change the oil and filter, then every 5000 miles I change just the filter. I'll change it at 5000, 10,000 and again at 15,000. The Maintenance ASSYST computer, in conjunction with the Oil Quality Sensor, does a constant oil analysis of sorts. If you change just the oil and filter and let it go until the ASSYST Computer tells you to change the oil, it'll tell you to change it somewhere between 10,000 and 12,500 miles, on the average, depending upon how conditions have been since the last change.

After you change the oil, the Maintenance ASSYST Computer is reset, and it starts the Time-To-Change the oil countdown at 10,000 miles to go. At 5000 miles, the Maintenance ASSYST time-to-change mileage countdown may very well say that I have 8000 miles to go before the next change. Or it may say just 5000 miles to go. Depends on the conditions during which I've been driving lately (dusty, hot, rainy, whatever).

When I change the oil filter, within a very short period of time the ASSYST will have added miles to the countdown meter. The closer you are to the previous oil change (the fresher the oil is), generally the more mileage it will add to the countdown. I've had it almost immediately add 3200 miles. If you're changing the filter at 15,000 miles, it may only add 500 or so miles to the countdown. If you change the filter at 5000 miles and it only adds a few hundred, it may have actually given you much more than that. It just might not count down as quickly, is all.

If you change the oil and filter when the ASSYST tells you to, you're gonna get roughly 12,000 miles between oil changes. If you change the filter out every 5000 miles, you'll get between 15,000 and 17,500 miles between changes. You must top off the oil as needed. If it's half a quart low, add half a quart. Don't wait until it gets a full quart low. The addition of fresh oil as needed, even if it's just 3 or 4 ounces at filter change time (so far, that's the only time I've ever had to add any, except for when I was draining off samples of 4 ounces each for analysis, I then had to add back 4 ounces), is a large part of what keeps the oil in good shape. Also, don't run around with 9 quarts of oil in there for fear of overfilling it. It takes 9 1/2 quarts. All 9 1/2 of them. Running on 9 quarts will cause it to have to be changed sooner.

I don't have an oil analysis done at each change. That's kind of overkill, at least for me. Having that done can certainly serve a purpose, as it will let you look for a specific suspected problem, or maybe give a headsup on something that is about to occur. But mainly, I used oil analysis to help determine the optimal oil change interval for my vehicle.

I changed the oil, then every 2500 miles (+/- 300 miles, religiously), I drained off a sample and had it analyzed. I did not change the filter until the next oil change. I then changed the oil and filter according to the ASSYST Computer, which, IIRC, was about 12,400 miles. I had five oil analyses done between those oil/filter changes, and the analysis of those analyses determined that the oil needed to be changed just about when the ASSYST Computer said to.

During the next oil change interval, I changed the oil filter-only at 7500 miles, and then again at the next oil change, which was 14,600 miles. I pulled oil samples again every 2500 miles, right on time. The six analyses from that interval indicated that I should have changed the oil at about 14,500 miles, which is what the ASSYST Computer had told me.

Finally, during the next interval, I changed the filter every 5000 miles. I'm getting so good at it that I can almost change a filter while refueling.

I actually kind of did that once. Had 500 miles to go before the next filter change, then got an 850 mile load. I didn't want to run 350 miles or more past the 5000 mark. I stopped for fuel, and then moved over to the parking lot and changed the filter in about 5 minutes, then continued on with the load. Again, I pulled samples every 2500 miles, in this case, seven analyses were done. The oil was changed according to the ASSYST Computer at 17,200 miles, and the analyses agreed with the computer.

I no longer do oil analysis in that manner, since that was specifically to help determine the optimum (or is it optimal?) oil change interval, and my peace of mind. Since the analyses so perfectly agreed with the Maintenance ASSYST Computer, I have confidence in following its recommendations for oil changes, regardless of when or if I change the filter between the oil changes. And at $22.50 a pop, regular oil analysis seems overkill. As the mileage creeps up on the engine I'll start getting an analysis every now and then to keep an eye on potential problems, but I don't think I'll use them to determine oil change intervals.

I use Mobile 1 0w 40 fully synthetic motor oil. I don't know if changing the filter between changes makes a hill of beans of difference with dino oil. And I've read and heard from experts that say that it doesn't make any difference at all with synthetic oil. Yet, there ya go. Two independent measurements, the ASSYST Computer and a series of oil analyses, have proven otherwise repeatedly. It's hard to ignore the extra 5000 miles between oil changes I get simply by changing the oil filter every 5000 miles, and making sure the oil level is topped off as needed.

LDB · Jul 9, 2007

If intermediate filter changes didn't do any good there wouldn't be so many fs2500 or gulf coast filters on the road. It sounds like the built in oil change computer is about as accurate as anything could be. Your posts are definitely informative and interesting. Between you and dieseldoctor I doubt there's a van upgrade situation you guys haven't addressed. You guys have some of the most interesting posts on the forum.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

RLENT · Jul 9, 2007

Ken,

Understand on the heat .... the wife and were out all day yesterday (90+ degrees) trenching and laying conduit for the electrical service to the barn ....... we both about collapsed last night when we came in .... wanted to throw in the towel at various time times throughout the day but managed to stick it out.

Yeah ..... I'll be waiting until at least the 50K to replace the shocks ..... nice to have them be worn enough that you really notice the difference when ya stick them on.

The front struts look like they could be a PITA to change ..... the rear shocks don't look to bad though .....

I still need to order the oil filters from ebay. I have a cup filter wrench with fluted edges that fits the filter exactly and I always crank it down tight to the block. The kid did the hand-tightening thing on one of his Sprinters ..... and ended up having it drool all over the place ......

I'm currently running the Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40 .... I'll probably switch back over to the Mobil 1 0w40 next oil change for the winter months.

Interesting stuff on the fuel filter ..... I guess I've had better luck with getting clean fuel - I just changed mine out for the first time @ 34,600. I never had the fuel filter restriction light come either - I just wanted to play it safe ..... with my luck it would have come on when I was under load and put me into "limp" mode.

I'm pretty sure that our vehicles are different years ...... but I could swear my manual recommends a change interval of every 30K for the fuel filter. If you have a link to a TSB that says otherwise please point me in it's direction.

Sounds like you have found a good Sprinter tech ...... you are a lucky man. I once called and asked the service writer at my local dealership whether DC would honor the warranty on the engine if I used the ASSYST system to change the oil rather than just doing it every 10K .... the guy replied "ASSYST system ..... dunno about no ASSYST system ...... what's that ?" ...... these guys are 5-star and a Sprinter dealership .... scary ......

Turtle · Jul 9, 2007

Thanks, Leo. I know I'm long winded at time, but I try to be thorough. I never know what little tid bit I through in that may help someone.

RLENT, I never had the fuel restriction light come on. The van just died. In all cases, sit a half hour and it would start up and go just fine. Happened once when I was idling to charge batteries, then again a few days later, then when at home and I left it idling while I washed it. Don't know what the deal was, other than a clogged filter will through those codes.

My Sprinter tech is a great one. He doesn't know everything, yet, but he isn't afraid to say so and then go find out about it. It's a small dealership ad he's the only tech, so anything Sprinter he gets. As a result he's learning pretty fast. Another friend of mine, and a mutual friend of my Sprinter tech, is the guy that the local UPS and FedEx shops use to service their Sprinters. That guy really knows his stuff, but he's actually more expensive than the dealer.

The dealer, BTW, is Parkway Chrysler in Benton, KY, way down in western Kentucky, 10 minutes off I-24 down the Purchase Parkway (exit 25 I think off I-24). They really ticked off the big Chrysler dealership in nearby Paducah when they snagged the Sprinter sales and service. Next closest one is in Effingham, IL. hehe

The shocks and struts, if you've done that kind of thing before, or are relatively sure you can do it, the rear ones weren't bad at all to change. About the same as the sway bar, actually. The fronts were just as much of a PITA as you can expect. If I had to do it again, I'd pay a mechanic for the hour, and not look back.

Lemme look in the manual for the fuel filter change interval. Hang on a sec....
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back

Ah, yes, as part of the regular Maintenance Schedule, which is every 30,000 miles. Sorry I misspoke on that one, but it's because I knew that whatever it said in the manual, it was no longer any good. I don't have a link to the TSB. For some reason, those things are hard to get ahold of, and I can't find them online. The TSB came out right around the time I got mine. I read about it on the Sprinter Yahoo Group, and asked my tech about it when it came time to do the first oil change, and he handed me the bulletin, which I read and handed back. Apparently, they were having some fuel filter issues (like the one I had) and changing the filter along with the oil solved the problem. I figured it was just another way to pad the dealer service revenue. Woops, maybe not. Mine's a 2005, BTW.

I was changing mine every 10,000 for 2 or 3 times, then went to 20,000, and then when I tried to stretch it to 30,000 (come to think about it, it actually was about 39,000

) is when I had the problems. My tech said that 20,000 miles should be just fine considering how quickly I put them on, as long as I don't get some bad fuel someplace. Every now and then I'll be stuck in Toe Jam, Tennessee or Buttcrack, Alabama and have to fuel at some mom and pop place. That may have contributed to it.

Incidentally, one day while working out in that heat I got too hot. Got sick, threw up. Sat down for a while and cooled off, drank a few sips of water, then tossed again. Went inside, still felt like, well, like what I just hurled, and went to bed. 15 seconds later I was at it again. Went to sleep and woke up 2 hours later for another round of college flashback. Went back to bed and the next morning I was fine. I swear, though, I hurled about 4 times the amount that I ate. I tossed every bit of what I ate that first time, then did it again three more times. I felt like a magician pulling scarves out of my sleeve, and they just kept on and on and on.... Point of the story is, don't get too hot if you're out workin' in this heat. Take plenty of breaks, drink plenty of water, Propel, Poweraid, whatever. Even if it means a 6 day project will have to take 10.

Just wanted to be thorough. :+

OntarioVanMan · Jul 9, 2007

This link might help...

http://www.dodgeforum.com/recalls-and-tsbs/tsb.htm

OntarioVanMan · Jul 10, 2007

Some may not have this Sprinter dealers list for the U.S of A.

http://winnebagoind.com/resources/service/pdfs/DodgeSprinterDealers.pdf

BTW if your coming south on 75 the Northline-Allen road exit theres a lube shop on your right as your on the off ramp they have oil and filter and the quoted price was only 75 bucks!! Do the math $6.00 a quart +tax x 10 plus $12.00 oil filter and they top up other fluids and check tire pressure...Thats better then the dealers. They have air filters too but at 36$ too expensive. AutoZone now carries our Turbo filter @ 20.00.