Today's New Truck Drivers and Their Training

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Camper

Not a Member
Which is exactly what those individuals aren't getting from the carriers who advertise training as a benefit, and sometimes charge a lot of money for it, too. ]


Again, it is up to the individual to surmise whether he/she is getting the right tools for the trade. Often times, carriers don't provide everything as advertised, that's fact..Those entering the profession need to be aware of such downfalls and adjust accordingly.

'Utopian' is a gross mischaracterization of a training program that addresses the normal and usual conditions all drivers will face between November and April - and a condescending deflection of the very responsibility that is promoted in the next breath. ]

It is because it is simply not possible. again, no training program can address every scenario one encounters on the road. It is incumbent upon the individual to pick up where the training leaves off. Now, if that sounds to you like a condescending deflection of responsibility, so be it.


Excuse me - this is discussing. Calling it' ranting and raving' is just more of the dismissive condescension that furthers nothing but someone's ego.


about that reality does nothing more than invite unwanted government intervention and more needless regulations.

Business has proven itself to be no more or less trustworthy than people in general, some of whom think nothing of harming others. Probably less, actually, as 'business' has a current politically correct cachet that overlooks almost anything [especially if it claims to provide jobs]. That fact makes government intervention and regulation as necessary as law, which is neither unwanted nor needless in most cases.

Discussion is one thing but piping up the same tired argument about carriers not providing enough is ranting. The cold hard truth is that companies are in business to earn a profit not to be charitable. Often times, they cut corners to do so as is the case in most industries. Additional regulation and red tape isn't going to change that dynamic
 

Camper

Not a Member
What do you think about that approach? How would things be if you let carriers decide how much training they want their drivers to have? How would things be if you let drivers decide how much more training they want to get on their own if they feel it necessary?

Contrary to conventional wisdom, I think the quality of training would actually be better if there were fewer regulations. For one thing more emphasis could be placed where it's truly needed as opposed to where the government dictates it's needed.

The issues of liability, equipment longevity and insurance rates, alone provide enough incentive to carriers to provide a minimum standard of training.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Already addressed first two comments.




Discussion is one thing but piping up the same tired argument about carriers not providing enough is ranting. The cold hard truth is that companies are in business to earn a profit not to be charitable. Often times, they cut corners to do so as is the case in most industries. Additional regulation and red tape isn't going to change that dynamic

Ensuring that drivers employed to drive the carrier's T/Ts are qualified to do it safely is what you consider being "charitable"?
Cutting corners [on safety issues!] to earn a profit is expected?


It's clear that you will continue to defend anything a company does in pursuit of profit, and dismiss any effort to hold them responsible for harm caused by their actions, while simultaneously holding individuals responsible for not only their own actions, but those the company failed to live up to.
What scares me is how many people agree with that?
 

60MPH

Expert Expediter
In 1999 when I went to USA Truck school it was 3800.00 with a one year commitment.

Now for the real reason I am posting, Some may have a opinion that Swift is the worst, my opinion is that they are not. C.R England's training system is even worst, they still do dumb & dumb which as last I heard Swift is not doing. England also owns there school to and can easily put unqualified drivers in the seat and I believe they do.

I have seen more reckless driving behavior out of large car drivers then I have seen out of the mega carrier (training companies) drivers. Most mega carrier drivers will shut it down when the road conditions get bad or if they feel tired or not up to the task. But them big ol' large car drivers running them taters, wood chips, logs, beets, live stock etc. do a hell of allot more stupid things on the road then the average mega carrier driver.

There is no large carrier that has a perfect training system, Prime has a 60k program which I believe is the longest in the industry and that still does not guarantee that you will get winter driving in. It's just not practical.

For those that a so concerned/worried about unqualified untrained drivers, maybe you should rethink your career choice and choose a different carrier that lets you stay away from all those unsafe drivers.

This world is full of risk...... accept it or go live in a cave.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
In 1999 when I went to USA Truck school it was 3800.00 with a one year commitment.

Now for the real reason I am posting, Some may have a opinion that Swift is the worst, my opinion is that they are not. C.R England's training system is even worst, they still do dumb & dumb which as last I heard Swift is not doing. England also owns there school to and can easily put unqualified drivers in the seat and I believe they do.

I have seen more reckless driving behavior out of large car drivers then I have seen out of the mega carrier (training companies) drivers. Most mega carrier drivers will shut it down when the road conditions get bad or if they feel tired or not up to the task. But them big ol' large car drivers running them taters, wood chips, logs, beets, live stock etc. do a hell of allot more stupid things on the road then the average mega carrier driver.

There is no large carrier that has a perfect training system, Prime has a 60k program which I believe is the longest in the industry and that still does not guarantee that you will get winter driving in. It's just not practical.

For those that a so concerned/worried about unqualified untrained drivers, maybe you should rethink your career choice and choose a different carrier that lets you stay away from all those unsafe drivers.

This world is full of risk...... accept it or go live in a cave.

I went to an outside school in 2006 and my tuition was $3500 for 6 weeks of training. I think we are all aware that risk is a fact of life but when you have a company like Swift that passes a driver for the road test when they never took it, that is an issue. These drivers will be everywhere so there really is no getting away from them.

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60MPH

Expert Expediter
when you have a company like Swift that passes a driver for the road test when they never took it, that is an issue.

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Have you seen this personally happen?? I have not. I personally know someone that is a member on this site that failed her road test twice with Swift and they sent her back to school, this was after she was out on the road with 2 mentors. I have also read stories from other students on another site that have failed the Swift road test and have been sent home or back to school. Know I have heard that some of the terminals that Swift does orientations in may have a more relaxed road test, but they still have one.

Swift is not perfect, but is there really any other trucking company that is? I run my own company and I will tell you that my company is not perfect...and I own it:D
 

Camper

Not a Member
I never said it was a fact, I have repeated a few times now it is my opinion which you seem to be arrogant enough to tell me my opinion is wrong. I did state I have facts to explain my opinion which the facts are listed below. Do you stop a guy wearing a shirt that says "World's Greatest Dad" and tell him that his kids opinion is wrong? Or how about someone that says a movie or restaurant is the greatest, do you stop them and explain that their opinion is wrong?

Well, it was stated at first a few posts back as if it's a fact..If you had said, "I think Swift's program is the worst", that would be expressing an opinion. Instead your statement was "Swift's program is the worst". The former wouldn't have subjected yourself to being corrected. The latter, being a pronouncement does. There's the difference. If you think being challenged on a statement is arrogant, then maybe you should refrain from making a pronouncement that can be challenged.



None of this is earth shattering news. As for the rip off report; There is more than one side of each story. Typically, many of those writings tend to be from ex-employees with sour grape syndrome.

Well we were talking about training programs and did not mention operations, maybe you are trying to cover up your mistake.

There's a spillover affect with respect to operations. Using Swift as an example, if their training was the "worst"' it would be reflected more in their CSA report since they hire on the drivers they train.

Quite frankly your statement is one of the most sophomoric statements I've seen. That seems to be your MO as witnessed with encounters you've had with other posters. You tend to get defensive when statements you make are challenged. If you can't have a civil discussion, maybe you should refrain from participating.

Those reports are not accurate, CSA 2010 reports are a joke. I know a guy that has a fix it ticket for a marker light being out on his trailer but there is nothing about the fact that he totaled a truck, my guess is because he didn't get a ticket for the accident.

Oh, but the Rip Off Report is accurate? Nobody said these CSA reports were 100% but there is a grain of truth to them. There's only such much they can be fudged.
 
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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Have you seen this personally happen?? I have not. I personally know someone that is a member on this site that failed her road test twice with Swift and they sent her back to school, this was after she was out on the road with 2 mentors. I have also read stories from other students on another site that have failed the Swift road test and have been sent home or back to school. Know I have heard that some of the terminals that Swift does orientations in may have a more relaxed road test, but they still have one.

Swift is not perfect, but is there really any other trucking company that is? I run my own company and I will tell you that my company is not perfect...and I own it:D

Just read the articles I posted above, the lack of a road test was part of the reason for the FBI raid and the reason so many drivers had their licenses taken away. This was not happening at every site but it was a big issue that has resulted in a class action suit involving almost 9000 drivers. It is very true that no company is perfect but it shouldn't result in thousands of unqualified drivers being behind the wheel.

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BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
Over the years there has been more then one Husband & Wife team in a Straight truck. Who have posted they knew nothing about this business or had ever driven a straight truck before taking their test for a Class B licence. Then starting with a Fleet owner. How do you propose someone gets seat time. In a simulator?

As far as the driver in an accident. If the Truck has a Name on it. The ambulance chaser is going after the Name on the rig before he goes after the driver.
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
I love hearing this stuff about schools and more so hearing some drivers in truck stops compain about their trucks. I must of had it easy back in 1969 when I started. To get my chaufers license a friend had to sign my application saying I knew how to drive a truck. Then I went to California with a friend to teach me how to drive. It cost me two weeks meals for my instructor and he made me drive almost all the way. It was pretty funny. At least we had a first class truck. It was a cab over International Emoryville with a 220 hp Cummins and a 10 speed. Really tough no power windows, no air seats (it was fixed to the floor), no power steering, crank down windows, no radio, no heat, no air and a rubber pad over the tandem for springs. Must of been good training, haven't hit anything yet, thank God. Wonder how many drivers would drive that now? Listened to a guy the other day his truck wasn't pulling good. 500hp engine had to drop two gears to get over some hill. LOL!
Wonder how many drivers:rolleyes: know when you have all that power and don't have to downshift on a hill know that it burns up drive tires? Oh wait I forgot, who cares.
 

Camper

Not a Member
As far as the driver in an accident. If the Truck has a Name on it. The ambulance chaser is going after the Name on the rig before he goes after the driver.

That story seemed a bit far fetched to me too but I didn't bother to argue it.

The issue I have is the broad brush that a certain poster is painting 14,000 plus drivers who work for swift with, all over a story that was regurgitated from 3 years ago. If memory serves me right, the raid on Swift that a certain poster is eluding to happened in early 2008.
 

JimF51

Seasoned Expediter
Sorry, paullud, but you are basing your statement on one location, the licensing office on the Swift property at Memphis. That was where the raid occurred. And it was subcontracted to a private firm.

So to paint the whole picture with that one paintbrush is not factual, just your opinion. Have you yourself actually gone through Swift's training?

Last year, I decided to go back over the road. I've always done flat bed. So I started calling various companies. All I talked to wanted either recent (within the past year) experience, or be a fresh school grad. They all say it's a insurance compant requirement, but I tend to doubt that. But that's a diff topic.

I called Swift as a last resort (hadn't known they had a flatbed division). Based on my further back than a year verifiable experience, they only required that I go out with a trainer for a min of 4 weeks. Since I'd get paid for that, I went that route.

So I didn't go through their school, either. However, more than half my orientation group was students from their schools. I was put with a trainer, who was excellent. As we went on, he accepted what I knew and refreshed me on a lot of things.

Even with his scoring me high in all aspects of the training, I still had to test out with a driving test, and a flatbed securement test. And you had to score 100% If you didn't, on the road test, you were back out with another trainer. If you didn't on the securement test, you went to the van division.

Upon testing out, we had a meeting with terminal safety manager. Among other things they offered, for new drivers, was if come winter, you were not comfortable with winter driving, you could ask to be placed with a qualified driver for a few weeks, to get some of that experience with the trainer. All you had to do was ask. The same, or similar, was offered for anything else you were unsure of.

Although I was primarily just a truck number with Swift, I was treated good, and had no issues with them. Yes, they are a starter company, with a huge driver turnover, but they are far from the 'worst'. I didn't have any commitment to them, but would have stayed at least a year, to get enough recent experience to go to the flatbed company of my choice. Fortunately, I decided to call the ad that ended up with me back in expediting, driving for a real good owner, and doing well enough that I'll be buying the truck I'm driving.

Again, sorry paullud, but your initial posting came across like one of those counter cowboys at a truck stop. Have a bit of info, and become a expert on it.
 

Camper

Not a Member
Do you have an issue with what I said because you drive for Swift or maybe you went through their training program? I never said all the drivers were an issue, we are talking about the way the training program has been run. Stop being so defensive and try reading what I have said.

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No, I am not in any way affiliated with Swift, in any way, shape or form, so you can put that conspiracy theory to rest. My issue is with those who make such broad, sweeping statements about a program, based on regurgitated news from 3 years ago. 3 years is an eternity in this industry. That being said, I read those stories back when they were actually newsworthy. I don't need to read them again.

With all due respect, you're the only one who's getting all defensive with the sophomoric name calling after your assertion was challenged. You're entitled to your opinion but when you state it as fact which you did, whether you know it or not, you set yourself up for rebuttal.




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JimF51

Seasoned Expediter
And to answer ATeam's original question, from what I found in Jan. '08, yes, that seems to be becoming the norm for most companies that offer schools.

The best bet is still to try and go to a accredited school on your own dime, or with some sort of financial assistance, so your not obligated to any one company.

However, choose your 1st company wisely. Because if you leave them after a month or 2, you will find it very hard to get on with another company. You won't be a recent grad, and won't have enough recent experience.
 

mcavoy33

Seasoned Expediter
Cheire,

I think your holding Swift to a higher standard than you are every other carrier. I don't know of a single carrier that pulls all of their new to them drivers off the road and into a training program to make sure they can properly drive through icy mountainous roads.

It's just not practical. I agree with camper that it is an individual's responsibility for their actions when they are the ones steering the wheel and pressing on the gas.

There would Mexican trucks running the roads if it wasn't for the Swift's, Werners & CR England's of the industry training new drivers for the benefit of the rest of the industry.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Sorry, paullud, but you are basing your statement on one location, the licensing office on the Swift property at Memphis. That was where the raid occurred. And it was subcontracted to a private firm.

So to paint the whole picture with that one paintbrush is not factual, just your opinion. Have you yourself actually gone through Swift's training?

Last year, I decided to go back over the road. I've always done flat bed. So I started calling various companies. All I talked to wanted either recent (within the past year) experience, or be a fresh school grad. They all say it's a insurance compant requirement, but I tend to doubt that. But that's a diff topic.

I called Swift as a last resort (hadn't known they had a flatbed division). Based on my further back than a year verifiable experience, they only required that I go out with a trainer for a min of 4 weeks. Since I'd get paid for that, I went that route.

So I didn't go through their school, either. However, more than half my orientation group was students from their schools. I was put with a trainer, who was excellent. As we went on, he accepted what I knew and refreshed me on a lot of things.

Even with his scoring me high in all aspects of the training, I still had to test out with a driving test, and a flatbed securement test. And you had to score 100% If you didn't, on the road test, you were back out with another trainer. If you didn't on the securement test, you went to the van division.

Upon testing out, we had a meeting with terminal safety manager. Among other things they offered, for new drivers, was if come winter, you were not comfortable with winter driving, you could ask to be placed with a qualified driver for a few weeks, to get some of that experience with the trainer. All you had to do was ask. The same, or similar, was offered for anything else you were unsure of.

Although I was primarily just a truck number with Swift, I was treated good, and had no issues with them. Yes, they are a starter company, with a huge driver turnover, but they are far from the 'worst'. I didn't have any commitment to them, but would have stayed at least a year, to get enough recent experience to go to the flatbed company of my choice. Fortunately, I decided to call the ad that ended up with me back in expediting, driving for a real good owner, and doing well enough that I'll be buying the truck I'm driving.

Again, sorry paullud, but your initial posting came across like one of those counter cowboys at a truck stop. Have a bit of info, and become a expert on it.

My initial post is that Swift is one of the worst companies which as you stated and I have stated is an opinion. It doesn't mean that all the drivers are the worst in the industry. The opinions on companies vary greatly, JB is run into the ground by a lot of drivers but I don't think they are that bad, same with Werner. I wasn't aware that having a different view based on facts and my research into pay and benefits when I looked at companies made me a counter cowboy, especially given the fact I am talking about one company, I did not slam all newbie companies. I think JB and Werner have better pay, benefits, training, and safety record so I would recommend those instead of Swift.

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mcavoy33

Seasoned Expediter
Paullud,

I think your basing too much of your current opinion on outdated facts. That may have been true 3 years ago but a lot of your spewingin this thread is as if it's currently happening still which is untrue imo.

Swift isn't the worse anymore imo. What is far worse are these CDL schools that offer 2-3 week programs where they spend half a day practicing their backing up skills to past the road test, then the other half of the day in a truck with 3 other students, thereby getting ONE hour of actual driving time on a real road per day for 2 weeks.

They get their CDL with basically 10-15 hours of driving experience. I'll gladly go on the road with some swift driver who had 4 weeks of actual supervised training any day of the week over one of the CDL mill school drivers orthe soccer mom putting on makeup who thinks they can cut in front of a big rig with no reprecussions.
 

Camper

Not a Member
My initial post is that Swift is one of the worst companies which as you stated and I have stated is an opinion.

That may have been your intent but that's not what you said in post #29, as stated below:

I meant that Swift has the worst program, and wasn't tossing the word in arbitrarily. They run the road test and pass people that have no business being behind the wheel, then they put rookies in a position as a trainer. There are other companies that do similar things but I just haven't seen them do things to the illegal and unethical standards of Swift.

I don't mean to split hairs but I'd be remiss not to point out the source of confusion,misunderstanding, communication malfunction, whatever you wish to call it..:rolleyes:
 

mcavoy33

Seasoned Expediter
My initial post is that Swift is one of the worst companies.
I think JB and Werner have better pay, benefits, training, and safety record so I would recommend those instead of Swift.

What exactly about JB's training program to you believe is superior than Swift's?

Lets not confuse better compensation with better training.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Paullud,

I think your basing too much of your current opinion on outdated facts. That may have been true 3 years ago but a lot of your spewingin this thread is as if it's currently happening still which is untrue imo.

Swift isn't the worse anymore imo. What is far worse are these CDL schools that offer 2-3 week programs where they spend half a day practicing their backing up skills to past the road test, then the other half of the day in a truck with 3 other students, thereby getting ONE hour of actual driving time on a real road per day for 2 weeks.

They get their CDL with basically 10-15 hours of driving experience. I'll gladly go on the road with some swift driver who had 4 weeks of actual supervised training any day of the week over one of the CDL mill school drivers orthe soccer mom putting on makeup who thinks they can cut in front of a big rig with no reprecussions.

My opinion is based off of more than what happened at their TN school, it is also what happened after the fact and what I am seeing today. As for the CDL mills they are a part of the problem but I am referring to the training programs at the carriers.

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