The Trump Card...

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Prominent conservative columnist Ann Coulter is an extremist who should be given precisely the same credence as any other extremist.

That may be, but even an idiot says something worth thinking about every once in a while. I'm no fan of Coutler and I seldom align with her statements. But I found her above-mentioned blog post interesting because she casts Trump's post-election wall work in an interesting light. She raises a point that I had not previously considered.

While Trump has talked loudly and ceaselessly about the wall, his actual work to getting it built seems to be lacking and/or ineffective. By work I mean the day-to-day, roll up your sleeves, coalition-building, deal-making, ceaseless meetings, dozens of administration staff operating daily behind the scenes, public meetings, private arm-twisting, sub-deal horse-trading work that must be done to move any new policy or project through Washington.

Coulter looks at Trump's work history and says "Either Trump never intended to build the wall and was scamming voters all along, or he has no idea how to get it done and zero interest in finding out.”

I'll add that Trump's lack of wall results will likely persist and become more problematic for him now that the Republicans have lost control of the House of Representatives. The base chanted "Build the Wall." No wall has yet been built and it seems increasing unlikely it will be done. Will the base decide it's OK that Trump did not build the wall they chanted for? Will they find something new to chant? Will they fade?

Notwithstanding your opinion about Coulter's status and motives, she has a large audience and she is injecting ideas into it that will likely take root in a number of them. Time will tell how significant it will be that Coulter found reason to highlight Trump's wall work history and question his wall sincerity. To me, it is not insignificant that she said what she said. To me, it indicates what a number of others in the Trump base are beginning to think.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
To me, it is not insignificant that she said what she said. To me, it indicates what a number of others in the Trump base are beginning to think.
That's because she's a conservative who is talking impeachment, which is right in your soul-soothing wheelhouse. I d caution in thinking she is any kind of indicator of even a small number of Trump's base. Her days as a conservative influencer, even with Trump's base, are well behind her. The base mostly just rolls their eyes at her anymore
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
To me, it is not insignificant that she said what she said. To me, it indicates what a number of others in the Trump base are beginning to think.
That's because she's a conservative who is talking impeachment, which is right in your soul-soothing wheelhouse.

Soul-soothing? That's a difficult term to quantify and it is not accurate. I will admit that as a human being, I am subject to confirmation bias. So when anything surfaces that supports my hypothesis, part of me is given to uncritically accept it. But that does not mean I automatically give into it. In this case, the core development -- that can be objectively verified and that Coulter correctly points out -- is that Trump has not worked on the wall in a way that is effective in getting things done in Washington. You cannot point to the kind of meetings and activities that are effective because they never happened. With the wall, Trump has not done what presidents do who successfully move a major new policy or initiative through Congress.

That can be pointed out now, where it could not before, simply because Trump has had two full years of united government to do this. But he did not do it. Now he has divided government, which make the task more difficult. Had Trump put more time into nitty-gritty wall work and less into rallies and "Executive Time" a wall might now stand.

Kushner was given responsibility for justice reform and a significant justice reform bill was passed into law precisely because Kushner led the necessary work. Strong Republican sentiment for the tax cut bill made it relatively easy to move it through. But with insufficient wall sentiment in Congress and no administration wall-czar appointed to spearhead the effort, and with Trump himself disinterested in the details, Coulter's suggestion that he was not serious about the wall in the first place has merit.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I really don't have any idea how much time Trump has put in, or who's or how many arms he's twisted, backroom deals, or the phone calls made .And I have my doubts that Ann Coulter does either.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I really don't have any idea how much time Trump has put in, or who's or how many arms he's twisted, backroom deals, or the phone calls made .And I have my doubts that Ann Coulter does either.

I have a reasonably good idea of the effort required to get something like the wall through and it is obvious that such effort was not exerted. It was for the tax cut. It was for justice reform. It was not for the wall. Reasonable conclusion based on results: Trump and/or his trusted operatives are not as interested in the wall.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I leaned today that if a President is interested enough, and works hard enough, he will airways get his way with Congress .
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Coulter's point is that Trump did not try to get the wall built. He just talked about it. A related theme has recently emerged among some commentators. Some said Trump does not want the wall, he wants the fight. It's an interesting point, supported - it seems to me - by Trumps observable actions.

There is an observable contrast between Trump's legislative action on the wall (actually lack of action) and action on the tax and justice reform bills. The point is not that Trump is not succeeding in getting the wall built. It is that he is not trying to get it built like he tried on the tax and justice reform bills. Lots of wall talk. Little meaningful action.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The wall bill is a different animal than the tax cut bill and criminal justice bill.
Exactly. Even the resistance to the tax cuts was minimal, one because it happened early in his term, and second because it doesn't give him a big, fat, hairy win he can beat Democrats over the head with.

To the Dems, that wall is admitting he's right about illegal immigration, is a massive win for him politically, and most of all, would be a lasting monument to Trump for decades that Democrats just can't accept. You think a MAGA hat triggers these people, wait until he gets a wall.

But to say they he doesn't want the wall or hasn't done anything to get it is just absurd. The wall has never been about the wall, it's been about doing whatever it takes to secure the border and stop illegal immigration.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
The tax cut bill also didn't have a single Democrat vote. But only required a simple majority. So they passed it with 52 votes. The criminal justice bill was favored by a large amount of Dems before it came to a vote so it merely had to have a fair amount of Republicans to pass. It passed overwhelmingly. The border bill requires at least a little more than a handful of Dems to pass, but they are currently in lockstep so as not to give Trump the appearance of a win on a key campaign issue.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The wall has never been about the wall, it's been about doing whatever it takes to secure the border and stop illegal immigration.

I'm pretty sure the wall was about the wall. Dozens if not hundreds of Trump quotes can be produced in which he describes -- in vivid detail in some cases -- not an idea about immigration but an actual, physical wall.

That does not mean Trump is not also concerned about an immigration problem but the problem for him is he promised a wall that has yet to be built; and that promise matters to many in his base.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
That's because,, even after two years, you're still trying to take him literally not seriously.

Then as now, that's a meaningless distinction to everyone except Trump supporters who are fond of using it. It's used when Trump supporters defend Trump's otherwise indefensible statements. Instead of answering a critic's point that a particular Trump statement is contradictory or false or nonsensical, the Trump supporter can chide the critic for taking Trump literally but not seriously. It shifts the spotlight off the indefensible statement and erroneously onto the critic.

It's a handy tool but ultimately ineffective. No history book will ever be written about Trump that discusses the notion of taking Trump literally but not seriously.
 
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Grizzly

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't believe property owners in Texas are going to let the government do anything with their land, even if they agree with the intention.
I'm sick of hearing about the wall. It's never gonna happen .... move on!
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Then as now, that's a meaningless distinction to everyone except Trump supporters who are fond of using it.
Not even close. Trump's goal is to secure the border and stop illegal immigration. Some people, those who take him literally, think his goal is rather to build a wall.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
The Dems are having a temper tantrum here. It's 5 billion dollars to help secure the border and erect some wall, barrier, partition, or whatever you want to call it. Is that too much to ask for? They say it's immoral and "that's not us". Yes it is.
We have barriers. We have barriers with armed guards. We have barriers with armed guards and electronic devices to detect intruders. We have barriers with armed guards and electronic devices to detect intruders and additional layers of barriers.
All of this is to protect someone's home.
It's what we do.
Is There A 10-Foot Wall Outside Obama’s House? We Went There To Find Out
 
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skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
The Dems are having a temper tantrum here. It's 5 billion dollars to help secure the border and erect some wall, barrier, partition, or whatever you want to call it. Is that too much to ask for? They say it's immoral and "that's not us". Yes it is.
We have barriers. We have barriers with armed guards. We have barriers with armed guards and electronic devices to detect intruders. We have barriers with armed guards and electronic devices to detect intruders and additional layers of barriers.
All of this is to protect someone's home.
It's what we do.
Is There A 10-Foot Wall Outside Obama’s House? We Went There To Find Out
And we have Muslims being sworn in on the Quran for office positions in the government....life rolls on.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
The Dems are having a temper tantrum here. It's 5 billion dollars to help secure the border and erect some wall, barrier, partition, or whatever you want to call it. Is that too much to ask for? They say it's immoral and "that's not us". Yes it is.
We have barriers. We have barriers with armed guards. We have barriers with armed guards and electronic devices to detect intruders. We have barriers with armed guards and electronic devices to detect intruders and additional layers of barriers.
All of this is to protect someone's home.
It's what we do.
Is There A 10-Foot Wall Outside Obama’s House? We Went There To Find Out
What a wonderful life he is leading by example...I would guess he has not adopted any Muslim families to stay with him. imagine that.
 
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