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The Trump Card...

Discussion in 'The Soapbox' started by muttly, Jun 16, 2015.

  1. ATeam

    ATeam Senior Member Retired Expediter

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    This link takes you to a page that provides irrefutable evidence that Trump once expected the Mexican government to directly pay for the wall.

    It is a page from the Trump 2016 campaign web site in which Trump's very-specific strategy to make Mexico pay for the wall is presented. The page was later taken down but it is preserved on the internet archive site to which the link points.

    Trump may have subsequently changed his mind to say Mexico will indirectly pay for the wall, but it is crystal clear that during the campaign, when he said Mexico will pay for the wall, he meant the Mexican government would write a check to pay for the wall.

    Excerpt: "It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion..."
     
  2. ATeam

    ATeam Senior Member Retired Expediter

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    That's a vital question, not because I'm the one holding Trump to a wall date, but because his base expects a wall. I've said above that impeachment proceedings will begin when it becomes evident that a sufficient number of Senate Republicans (20 of them) are no longer willing to support Trump, and that will happen when Trump's popular support erodes. I know of no date specified by Trump by which the wall will be built. I do know that after 2 full years of unified government, the wall has not been built and the 2018 midterm elections produced divided government.

    Thousands of Trump supporters chanted enthusiastically "Build the Wall." How long are they willing to go without a wall before their Trump support fades?
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    • ATeam

      ATeam Senior Member Retired Expediter

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      When an ordinary person in ordinary conversation -- say a neighbor in your neighborhood talking about his house or patio -- says I'm going to build a wall, and he shows you photos/drawings/examples of what the wall will look like, rational listeners would expect to see the neighbor build that very wall.

      Trump did not say I will build a wall and the wall is a metaphor for improved border security. He said I will build a wall. He described an actual wall in vivid detail. He had wall prototypes built to demonstrate what the wall might look like. He visited those prototypes to draw attention to them. More recently, he showed a photo of what a steel-slat wall (fence) will look like if built. If that is not talking literally, what is?

      When Trump explicitly details his strategy to make the government of Mexico directly pay for the wall, and he builds physical prototypes to demonstrate what the wall will look like, it seems reasonable to take him literally when he says he will build a wall and make Mexico pay for it.

      With Trump now in office for two years, and having enjoyed united government the entire time, and with the wall not built, it also seems reasonable to conclude, as Ann Coulter did, that, “It is now crystal clear that one of two things is true: Either Trump never intended to build the wall and was scamming voters all along, or he has no idea how to get it done and zero interest in finding out.”

      I do not think that when it comes to immigration, Trump views the wall as the complete solution. Clearly, he wants other security methods also enhanced. His problem is he created massive expectations for an actual wall and he will pay a political price if those expectations are not fulfilled. Trump's problem is not that I am taking his wall talk literally (although I do), it's that a number of people in his base took him literally and they expect to see him build a wall.
       
      Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      I don't know if it's actual Islamophobia or not, but it's certainly something to take notice of.

      Islam isn't merely a religion, it is also a political philosophy. Islam and democracy are two competing political systems that are incompatible with each other. One gives the power of legislation and governance to the people, while the other is oh my absolutely not that at all.

      We have a Muslim Congresswoman who's first public act was to swear her oath of office using a religious text that literally condemns her oath of office. He second public act was to declare her intention to remove the elected leader of the country, and her third public act was to condemn Israel and the Jews. So, yeah. certainly something to take notice of.
       
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    • Ragman
      EO4ME

      Ragman Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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      If this was the first post of it's kind, i would agree. However, past history and comments from this member indicates an unwarranted fear of the Islamic people.
       
    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      It's irrefutable evidence that Trump considered Mexico directly paying for the wall as one of several possibilities.

      I dunno. That seems to be a question that only you yourself can answer. You seem far more well-versed as to what Trump's base wants then anyone I know. And you have an uncanny ability to read Trump's mind and be able to know precisely what he means whenever he says something. So this is a little out of my depth.

      Yes they would, if they were fixated on the wall, the whole wall, and nothing but the wall, and ignored completely the contextual reasons and discussions for wanting to build a wall. That goes back to the whole literally versus seriously thing.

      No, but he did say that a wall is a part of improved border security.
       
    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      I dunno. "Unwarranted" sounds a little like a judgement call, doesn't it? Just because you don't accept, embrace and celebrate something doesn't necessarily mean you have an unwarranted fear of it. Islam and Christianity are competing religious philosophies, each of which literally wants to destroy the other. Muslims and Christians have fought wars to drive that point home and achieve that end. Unwarranted? I dunno.
       
    • dalscott

      dalscott Expert Expediter

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      Gee, I always thought that among other things, this country was based on freedom of religion. Unless of course that means freedom of religion that goes along with mine.


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    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      I don't know what point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting that, because this country has a Constitutional right to freedom of religion, that Christians and Muslims should therefore disregard their own religious dogma and stop worshiping how they want to?
       
    • dalscott

      dalscott Expert Expediter

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      Just the opposite. Muslims or any other religion has as much right to practice their’s as you and I have.


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    • muttly
      Relaxed

      muttly Veteran Expediter

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      If someone directly or indirectly pays for something. They're still paying for it.
       
    • skyraider

      skyraider Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter US Navy

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      All this would never have happened if Columbus and the Vikings had just stayed home.......................IMHO:bobtail:
       
    • dalscott

      dalscott Expert Expediter

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      True. Or if the natives had built a wall. Trump would be on the “other side of the fence”.


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    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      No one has said otherwise, so still stuck on not knowing what point you're trying to make.
       
    • Ragman
      EO4ME

      Ragman Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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      Following that logic, the U.S. taxpayer will ultimately pay for the wall..... ;)
       
      Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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    • coalminer

      coalminer Veteran Expediter Retired Expediter

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      And that is true, they can practice their religion as long as they follow the laws of our country, unfortunately there are so many things that is normal for Islam that goes against our way of life. Remember, we are all infidels according to true Muslims.
       
    • dalscott

      dalscott Expert Expediter

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      Don’t you remember someone making an issue about a Muslin being sworn in on the Quran?
      It doesn’t take rocket science to figure that one out.


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    • muttly
      Relaxed

      muttly Veteran Expediter

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      Nah that would be the wall climbers they're paying for.
       
    • Turtle
      Busy

      Turtle Administrator Staff Member Owner/Operator

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      Explain it to me, as you would a child. I ain't getting the point. Congress shall make no law establishing religion, nor the free exercise thereof.
       
    • dalscott

      dalscott Expert Expediter

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      I already did.


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