starting to drive for fleet owner with cargo vans!

[AMonger]

I hate to be the one to burst your buble but your logic is flawed. Just this week alone Our truck would have beaten any solo van driver hands down. Nevada to Cali to Washington to Utah to Delaware starting monday morning @ 10 finished by 1045 friday morning for a total of 4010. In that there was 22hrs off 3 in WA waiting to p/u, 11hrs in UT waiting for p/u and 9 in PA sleeping and still delivered in DE 5hrs early. The 22 hrs off doesn't count fuel stops and driver changes. As a team Turtle had it right.

Your thoughts on pay are also off, UT to DE all miles paid over $2.00.

Personally I think it is a silly exercise comparing team vs solo no matter what is being driven.

But we're not talking about a week of running, unless it's all one run. We're talking about when there's a customer in one location with one run going to some place maybe 800-1500 miles away. In that circumstance, a solo van still beats a truck team.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[smcleod]

Thank You guy and Gals for all of the reply's good and bad. My self and girlfriend do live together. We are wanting to try this out to see if we like it or not. As a van driver for a fleet owner it would be easier to walk away rather than be in debt for a truck or van. As I see the slow times coming I feel this would be the best time to come in. I myself like to see the bad before the good before I get spoiled. I have got a so so offer from the fleet owner, at 42% of the rev from the loads. We do have a few other things to discuss but it was a fast turn around on getting us on with the fleet. OH! forgot we have worked side by side every day in a ford ranger for the last 2 years and we have yet got to where we want to kill each other. From my understanding the 42% is with the fleet owner furnishing all expenses with the fuel and van. I would really like your thoughts on the 42% I have heard they was doing 40% and 60% with the owner getting 60% and driver getting 40% so 2% is 2%.

Does the fleet owner cut you a payroll check or is he paying you as a contractor? I would think, he is putting you on the payroll. If not, you will have a tax liability on top of your percentage, without much of a write off.

 

[Slacktide]

But we're not talking about a week of running, unless it's all one run. We're talking about when there's a customer in one location with one run going to some place maybe 800-1500 miles away. In that circumstance, a solo van still beats a truck team.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

I don't see it. Given the example that you did here's why. On the low end (800mi) I don't have to stop except to change drivers (5min tops), where a van has on average two fuel stops(10-15 min each) not to mention bathroom breaks. On the top end (1500) if I start the trip with at least 1/2 on the fuel guage I only have to stop once for fuel and one 15 min driver change. All the while never stopping the truck to sleep. While the van has 4 fuel stops and "should" take some time for sleep while doing 1500 mi.

I did give a single run example, UT to DE. 2121 loaded miles. Departed 1645 wed delivered 1030 friday morning. In that were three fuel stops (extra fuel stop to cover taxes) and 9 hrs off. There was no point in getting to DE 9 hrs early when they weren't open. Just to be clear we stopped because we wanted to not because we had to. Straight through time would have been 33 hrs, like I said earlier, I just don't see a solo van getting close to that.

Slackin is what a Slacker does best
Oh I offended you with my opinion? You should hear the ones I keep to myself

 

[greg334]

Does the fleet owner cut you a payroll check or is he paying you as a contractor? I would think, he is putting you on the payroll. If not, you will have a tax liability on top of your percentage, without much of a write off.

I don't think many if any owners have employees, there is something about marginal operations that seem to force the issue of employees out of the equation.

You as the driver also have limited things you can write off, the owner, if they pay for fuel has the right to take the mileage deduction but from an IRS commercial investigator in discussing another matter a few months back, there may be an issue with the driver taking this deduction if they don't own the van and that may flag the driver for an audit.

See this is one reason why I keep saying that if you are going to drive a van, get one - they are cheap and easy to find so the capital costs to get into this stuff is next to nothing BUT if you can't afford one, consider working in something else.

 

[Zoli]

The carrier is Panther and I hope they are good miles. They have stated that we should get good miles as a team in a cargo because of no logging and 1/2 the DOT rules.

If you stay out you can count on average 7000 loaded miles per month.If the owner has the 77 cents contract (we have that) the gross income will be $5400. Your 42% will be approx.2250.
For exaple we pay 65 % for the driver and the driver is responsible for gas and keep the FS.

 

[smcleod]

I don't think many if any owners have employees, there is something about marginal operations that seem to force the issue of employees out of the equation.

You as the driver also have limited things you can write off, the owner, if they pay for fuel has the right to take the mileage deduction but from an IRS commercial investigator in discussing another matter a few months back, there may be an issue with the driver taking this deduction if they don't own the van and that may flag the driver for an audit.

See this is one reason why I keep saying that if you are going to drive a van, get one - they are cheap and easy to find so the capital costs to get into this stuff is next to nothing BUT if you can't afford one, consider working in something else.

All of our vans are O/O's and I don't know how you could own a van, put a driver in it and still call them a contractor without leasing the van back to them. It just seems like a line I'm not willing to walk. The government is giving me enough grief with the guys that own their own equipment.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

If you stay out you can count on average 7000 loaded miles per month.If the owner has the 77 cents contract (we have that) the gross income will be $5400. Your 42% will be approx.2250.
For exaple we pay 65 % for the driver and the driver is responsible for gas and keep the FS.

You telling me Panther vans are getting 1700 to 1800 miles a week on average ALL the time?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

All of our vans are O/O's and I don't know how you could own a van, put a driver in it and still call them a contractor without leasing the van back to them. It just seems like a line I'm not willing to walk. The government is giving me enough grief with the guys that own their own equipment.

That is exactly what they do...

 

[Moot]

We're talking about when there's a customer in one location with one run going to some place maybe 800-1500 miles away. In that circumstance, a solo van still beats a truck team.

"We're", as in we are? Who's the we? Are you a team?

Most reputable and safety conscious expedite carriers book loads based on 45-50 mph transit times. Most reputable, safety conscious and business savvy O/O's drive at the posted speed limits or less. I can't see an advantage time wise to the solo van. But then I'm not a super vanner and I wear corrective lenses.

 

[Monty]

I love my van .. and who da heck wants to do 1500 mile trips anyway?

I certainly have .. more than once. But I do not make it a way of business.

Loads for me are usually less than 500 miles, one fuel stop, and a couple of refills of the coffee cup and a pee break.

Here I sit today, in the very situation I said I don't do .... Eagle Pass, Tx from Beaver Dam, Ky .. 1162 miles .... but I had all weekend to do it. Now ... if I am offered freight back to Detroit, for example ... I'm gonna have a rough couple of days!

There all kinds of reasons to be in whatever size unit you choose to operate. After 40+ years of trucking, I prefer to NOT play the FMCSA game anymore, and I am pleased with my preference.

Plus .. I guess I am now what I once considered the scrounge of the expediting business ..... a "gentlemen" trucker, meaning I don't HAVE to accept freight to make truck payments, to pay the bills at home, etc. So I guess I do cherry pick the freight a bit .... but only a bit ... I'm still out here to make money. When I run, I run hard ... but not stupid!

 

[greg334]

All of our vans are O/O's and I don't know how you could own a van, put a driver in it and still call them a contractor without leasing the van back to them. It just seems like a line I'm not willing to walk. The government is giving me enough grief with the guys that own their own equipment.

It's easy, you have a contract with them and they are contractors for you. You are sub-contracting the work out because the van is leased to the carrier. The van is the tool, it is not the labor.

All your vans?

 

[AMonger]

I don't see it. Given the example that you did here's why. On the low end (800mi) I don't have to stop except to change drivers (5min tops), where a van has on average two fuel stops(10-15 min each) not to mention bathroom breaks. On the top end (1500) if I start the trip with at least 1/2 on the fuel guage I only have to stop once for fuel and one 15 min driver change. All the while never stopping the truck to sleep. While the van has 4 fuel stops and "should" take some time for sleep while doing 1500 mi.

I did give a single run example, UT to DE. 2121 loaded miles. Departed 1645 wed delivered 1030 friday morning. In that were three fuel stops (extra fuel stop to cover taxes) and 9 hrs off. There was no point in getting to DE 9 hrs early when they weren't open. Just to be clear we stopped because we wanted to not because we had to. Straight through time would have been 33 hrs, like I said earlier, I just don't see a solo van getting close to that.

Slackin is what a Slacker does best
Oh I offended you with my opinion? You should hear the ones I keep to myself

Actually, I've done it myself. My longest run in the shortest time was 2135 miles, done in 35 hours, and I could have shaved a couple off that had I needed to. That's not something I want to do every day, but I'd gladly take one of those a month on proper rest.

At 2000 miles, you're getting past the point where a van can outrun a truck. But 800-1500, every time.
--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[AMonger]

"We're", as in we are? Who's the we? Are you a team?

Most reputable and safety conscious expedite carriers book loads based on 45-50 mph transit times. Most reputable, safety conscious and business savvy O/O's drive at the posted speed limits or less. I can't see an advantage time wise to the solo van. But then I'm not a super vanner and I wear corrective lenses.

No, we as in those discussing this topic.

Yes, transit times are indeed booked at 45-50, and there are both fuel, mechanical, and legal advantages to not exceeding the speed limit. But the same is true for big trucks, and there are also split speed limits and congested areas that affect the truck more than the van. Add to that the fact that trucks take longer to fuel and to even get off the road just to take a whiz.

The loading time differential mentioned above isn't even necessary to make vans faster. If my van and your truck leave the same dock at the same time, all tanks full, I will beat you to the same consignee 800 miles away every time, or at least 9 out of 10, to allow for a fluke. And that's with me either staying at or below the speed limit. You're going to take longer to get up to speed； be affected more by traffic；stop and go city driving, and congestion； take longer just to stop to take a whiz, etc. Throw a split speed limit and a scale or two into the mix and I'll be unloaded at the consignee and gone before you arrive.

Now extend that run to 1200-1500 miles and you're even slower.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[AMonger]

I love my van .. and who da heck wants to do 1500 mile trips anyway?

I'd love about 1 of those a week.


--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[Zoli]

You telling me Panther vans are getting 1700 to 1800 miles a week on average ALL the time?

Solo no, but they are team. I have a team on one of my Panther van so I know.

 

[smcleod]

It's easy, you have a contract with them and they are contractors for you. You are sub-contracting the work out because the van is leased to the carrier. The van is the tool, it is not the labor.

All your vans?

I call them my vans, but they are all o/o's. I will never lease a company owned van to a contractor. I would rather not run the risk of drivers coming back and saying they were misclassified.

 

[BigCat]

I call them my vans, but they are all o/o's. I will never lease a company owned van to a contractor. I would rather not run the risk of drivers coming back and saying they were misclassified.

But most expediting companies don't own equipment and we lease from the van/truck owners therefore making us IC's

 

[Monty]

I have never seen the reason to lease a van from anyone when there are deals like this all over the place.

Used 2008 Ford Econoline Wagon For Sale | Vandalia OH .

Remove the seats, add some plywood to cover the windows, a bit of etrack and yer in business.

 

[Moot]

No, we as in those discussing this topic.

Sorry, my misunderstanding. I thought you may have teamed up with Harvey.

Yes, transit times are indeed booked at 45-50,...

So there is no reason a team operated truck can't make a delivery time based on these parameters. So what if you can beat a truck by 30 minutes. Who cares as long as the delivery time is made. Sure its a bonus to some customers to get their freight early. I usually deliver about 2 hours early on a 400-500 mile load. I don't see why a team driven truck can't make the delivery time or deliver early.

 

[AMonger]

Sorry, my misunderstanding. I thought you may have teamed up with Harvey.


So there is no reason a team operated truck can't make a delivery time based on these parameters. So what if you can beat a truck by 30 minutes. Who cares as long as the delivery time is made. Sure its a bonus to some customers to get their freight early. I usually deliver about 2 hours early on a 400-500 mile load. I don't see why a team driven truck can't make the delivery time or deliver early.

Well, a couple things...

That 30 minutes might not mean anything, but otoh, if you run into a 30 minute delay enroute, like an accident closing the interstate, those 30 minutes become important. Or if they need them absolutely ASAP but no later than the protect time...

Or, again, if the run is longer, the can could beat the truck by even more. Or if it's a solo driver in the truck, on a 1200 mile run, the solo van beats the truck by a long way.

But generally, if it's just a matter of 30 minutes, you're right that it won't matter MOST of the time. But still a valid USP for advertising purposes. Never know when one of those situations in which it does matter will occur.