Apply Now!

Sorry Turtle

layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I understand and I thank you again. It seems today that having firm beliefs is frowned upon by many. I guess it is my lack of a feminine side, eh? :rolleyes: I just can't understand wishy washy and flip floping. I also don't understand letting your values and principles be dictated by the times and the crowd. Is not the essence of values and principles that they are NOT a fashion but a why of life. Do not true values stand the test of time? I guess I am an old fuddy duddy, thank God for that. I like it that way!!! Layoutshooter
 
Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
For what it's worth, IMHO you didn't have anything to apoligize for in the first place. Too bad an apology thread went south so quickly. It seems to be a typical response from liberals - even the moderate ones - to use the "nut job" or "cuckoo" label for the people or ideas they don't agree with. This demeaning tactic is hypocritical at the very least since they are equally passionate in defending their beliefs without compromise. For lack of an effective counter-argument they use ridicule and name-calling. Liberal columnists and TV personalities are the same - take Jon Stewart for instance. His attacks on conservatives are always based on mocking and ridicule, taking thier quotes and video clips out of context combined with his own misrepresentations of the facts in an effort to make them look stupid. The clowns on SNL did the same thing to Sarah Palin. Non-thinking people are susceptible to this tactic, but it only works for the short run.

Didn't mean to get on that tangent. Bottom line is that there are some areas in life that really are black and white. Some people understand that, others don't.
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I did not set out to apologize for my beliefs. I set out to stop a silly argument over labels. I can see it was a waste of time. It has become apparent that we will not be able to carry on any time of meaningful discourse with those who do not understand the values that this Nation is founded on. Those ideas like, self-reliance, the freedom to suceed or fail on your own efforts. To live a life free of government interference. To be allowed to "Persue" happiness in my own way. To be allowed to just live. Just live. Layoutshooter
 
letzrockexpress

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
The point is..you made your point. we get it. Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over and over??? Who are you trying to convince?? I have acknowledged your patriotism and highly respect it. So has turtle. so have others. What are you trying to achieve by constantly repeating the same stuff??
Enough already. You are only diminishing the power of your words when you belabor your point.
Earlier in this thread you state you do not care if you come on too strong. O.K., that's fine but maybe others do and choose to react to it. This is the soapbox, not just layoutshooter's box.
 
Last edited:
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well, the graphic posted above is out of line. And like Pilgrim, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Except maybe the backhanded apology that started this thread, as it's really a non-apology apology. It's one that says, "I'm sorry about it, but I'm still right, and here's why I'm right." :D

But like I said, I don't think you have anything at all to apologize for. Somebody sure needs to apologize for Post #15, though. On the other hand, that post paired with the quote in the sig is a rich example of irony, and I love good irony.
 
letzrockexpress

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
ok.....................I'm sorry for post # 15. Perhaps I was a little hasty in my comment. I have deleted it.
 
Last edited:
OntarioVanMan

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
letzrockexpress said:
ok.....................I'm sorry for post # 15. Perhaps I was a little hasty in my comment.
Click to expand...


Rock..there is two sides to every coin...both sides have equal value....until one tries to split said coin down the middle...

I don't know if what I just said makes any sense..*LOL*

I hope you get what I was trying to say...

You said once I seemed a reasonable person....as I am sure you are as well....:)
 
letzrockexpress

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
OntarioVanMan said:
Rock..there is two sides to every coin...both sides have equal value....until one tries to split said coin down the middle...

I don't know if what I just said makes any sense..*LOL*

I hope you get what I was trying to say...

You said once I seemed a reasonable person....as I am sure you are as well....:)
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly...That is a good analogy. A coin has 2 sides. Once both sides are presented, they don't need to be presented again. That was my point.
 
Turtle

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Let's play a game. $5 a flip. Heads I win, tails you lose. :D
 
DougTravels

DougTravels

Not a Member
layoutshooter said:
I did not set out to apologize for my beliefs. I set out to stop a silly argument over labels. I can see it was a waste of time. It has become apparent that we will not be able to carry on any time of meaningful discourse with those who do not understand the values that this Nation is founded on. Those ideas like, self-reliance, the freedom to suceed or fail on your own efforts. To live a life free of government interference. To be allowed to "Persue" happiness in my own way. To be allowed to just live. Just live. Layoutshooter
Click to expand...


Wow, I do love this country but people seem to not understand (or want to forget) what this country was really founded upon. For example the Constitution was written by a bunch of slave owners who wanted THEIR freedom. Freedom and rights for all WHITE MEN and only for them. One thing they did recognize is that times will change, knowing that, this country was set up to be able to change the laws and amend the Constitution as needed. So when you talk about defending the Constituition, It begs me to ask if you mean the original one, which had no rights for African Americans, Native Americans and limited rights for white women?

Yes many do not understand the values that this country was founded upon, sadly Layout you are among them.
 
Last edited:
MentalGiant

MentalGiant

Seasoned Expediter
Doug, in a way I agree with you. But, how far do you let the change of the constitution? Meaning, does it have to change so much that it means the opposite to what it meant from the beginning? I agree, what the constitution worked when it was first written. I agree it needed changes for the greater good as the time has changed.

The problem I see though, its being changed without the peoples choice. I know we have elected politicians that make the choices in most cases for us, even though the majority of people don't agree. And the problem I see, is these politicians are not looking on both sides of the issue in most cases and have one track mind that they believe what is right for the people. I will go as far to say, their are dirty politicians out there and have been for many years, do as they see fit to control majority of the population to their will. Everybody has a vision how our country should be and want it to be.

I'm sure layoutshooter has his vision and it is basically what the old constitution implied. Also, I'm pretty sure by reading most of layoutshooter post, some of the constitution is void in these times, but he does hold true to what many believe that shouldn't be changed as much as our government is changing it.
 
DougTravels

DougTravels

Not a Member
When you say the old Constitition, exactly what years constitution was the perfect one? I surely hope he doesn't think the original one is, anyway I got a load and have to get moving. I believe the constitution is brilliant by the way, in so much as it can be changed as needed.
My point was that he writes about the values this Country was founded upon.The truth is this country is great in spite of many of the values it was founded upon. People who talk about the "good old days" should be quite specific about which days. This country has done some horrible things to many people, lets hope some of those "good old days" are far behind us. Gitmo anyone?
 
Last edited:
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Constitution has been changed multilple times in history. Mainly to insure rights to those denined them. We have a system that shoud be followed, it is called AMENDING the Constitution. It is a VERY difficult process, for a good reason. The BASIC law of the land should NOT EVER be subject to the whims of the "times" or fashion. We are now circumventing it WITHOUT the benifit of amendments. A very dangerous precident. That, for all intents and purposes, takes away the control of the government from the People and puts the Government in control. Up until now most, if not all, changes were put in to EMPOWER the People. Now we have the opposite.
As to native Americans, I was born in downtown Detroit, you just can't get any more native than that. Besides those that we call "Native Americans" often did not honor the "righs" of other Native Americans. They often did, as SOME did when we came over here, to members of other tribes.
Man kind is not always the most kindly of species, all of mankind, no one race or people has a patent on being nasty to thier fellow man.

Obama and his ilk seek to destroy the purpose of one of the most amazing documets ever written, the Bill of Rights. Just ponder on those words, Bill of Rights, rights reserved for the People NOT a government. The purpose is to insure that the PEOPLE retain control.

I am not willing to give up that control. Are you? Do you really think that our so-called "elected officials" are that much smarter or better than you that they should control your destiny? I don't. They work for us, not the other way around. Many of them seem to have forgotten that. They elected bodies of this government are corrupt. They seek power and control, not the good of the Nation.

I don't support that. Layoutshooter
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We try Peacedog, but this is the politics section, SO, it is a law that people argue in this part!! You, and many others might be surpised, but I can be almost normal in person!! :p

You might not understand where I am coming from. I feel that my entire way of life is being taken from me. For decades now people have been trying to stop me from hunting and fishing. From excerising my rights.

I don't want any form of a National Health system. I have lived in England for 5 years. Thier health care is MORE expensive and years behind and it continues to go backwards.

What I really want is some honesty. IF we must debate, say National Heath, tell ALL sides of the story. Like the crushing taxes, higher "Normal" un-emplyment levels. Lower private home ownerships levels. Less access to Modern medical pratices. ETC. It is NOT all peaches and cream.

Now, please be honest, that is all I really look for in reality. Talking about the Obama administration (that IS who is in now) Have you ever heard any kind of balaneced information from them? Or have you heard polilitcal buzz words, like greedy drug makers or greedy rich doctors?

I am not defending ANY past president or party. The last president that even had a slight clue about anything, was Dwight D. and I only gave him a C+ to a B-.

I only ask to be left out of this New Socialism. I don't want to pay the taxes. I won't give up ANY rights for anyone. I won't pay for abortions or any research that involves killing humans at ANY stange in thier development. That includes embronic stem cell research that kills the embryo. I am morally opposed to that. I can tell you one thing. I NEVER do ANYTHING that I am morally opposed too.

Other than that, do you like venison tenderlions? We are having a mess of them Sunday at my brothers house on Sunday, I can't wait. We are also having our Ducks Unlimited Spring Dinner tomorrow, it is sold out. D.U. is on of the oldest conservation organizations in the world and since it's formation, I think in 1935, we have protected or re-habilitated well over 11 MILLION acres of wetlands and other types of endangered wildlife habitat. It should be a fun night.

Layoutshooter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top