short loads

panthervanman

Seasoned Expediter
I was just wanting to know if any van drivers with panther is getting any loads over 200 miles or are my van on a s--- list???
 

hondaking38

Veteran Expediter
last 6 loads only one over 200 miles....starving and kids got no shoes
everywhere i go twice as many vans as loads out per day...sometimes many ,more then that...put some more vans on panther!!! might make your stock go up
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
When I was at Panther a couple of years ago in a straight truck I thought the same thing about them having more trucks than frieght, and running 2 orientations a week. Didn't make much sense. By the way the dispatchers told me several times at that Panther doesn't look for loads they just wait for customers to call. Way to be proactive. Remember they aren't losing money while you're sitting, and if you don't like it they'll be more than happy to show you the door. A big outfit like that will have you replaced before you even leave.Thier biggest concern is making sure every load gets covered, not that everyone makes money. Ask one of those desk jockeys would they sit around the office for 2 to 3 days with nothing to do and not get paid? You'll get hung up on. All this I know from personal experience.
 

fortwayne

Not a Member
Yep. They act like the care but they don't!
I was asleep the other night, they are not suppose to offer you a load when you are showing you sleeping, but they called 3 times and then marked it against me when I said no I was tired and needed to grab some sleep.
Then today, when I show out of service till 1300, I sit and sit and sit. I call for my board spot and they tell me I am out of service till 1300 when it was already 1600.
They said they couldn't place me back in service EVEN THOUGH they demand you to give them a return date and time!
Whats the point if I have to update it anyways and they bypass me if I am showing out of service?
So, since we have a dumb law here that prohibts trucks in my area, I had to drive 2 miles to place myself back in service.
THEY HAVE TO MANY RULES WHEN IT SERVES THEIR NEEDS AND NO RULES THAT SERVES THE NEEDS OF THE DRIVER!
Time to move on............I just wish my o/o would move the truck because he is the best of the best....but he said no....so now what to do........



Fort Wayne
Now That Is Stupid!
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Fort Wayne.....
You created your own problem, and then you complain. You need to learn how to work your QC.
You should not have been out of service. You should have used your OOS sleeping macro with the date and time. You punched in the wrong information.
Additionally, if you became available at 13:00 and it is 16:00 and you are still out of service, you should have called in at 13:00 and put yourself back in service even though you errored originally. Why should they take the time to call you to see IF you might want to work?











Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

Twin Pop USA

Expert Expediter
I rarely get loads under 200 miles. Unless I'm near Detroit, of course. Panther is running me ragged! My van is piling up the miles
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It all depends on where you are. If you're in the upper Midwest, like Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, most of the loads around there are in the 150-250 mile range. When I'm in those areas, I'll usually accept one or two of those loads, maybe more depending on when they are offered and where they are going (because the shorts loads have to be covered, too), and then after that I'll simply turn down loads until I get one I like, one that takes me out of that area.

I've spent the last 10 days or so bouncing up and down the east coast, Baltimore, Connecticut, Brooklyn, Boston, Delaware, Philly. Most of the runs were 250-350, but they paid well enough, and I got to see some neat things and do some neat stuff. But it was about time to get a load out of here, and lo and behold the next one was from Maine to Virginia, 680 miles, so I took it.

Then today I turned down a 630 mile run, because I had just had a 5 hour delay getting unloaded after running those 680 miles. Hated to turn it down because I know it needed to be covered, but I needed some sleep.

Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
 

buckeyewildman

Seasoned Expediter
>Yep. They act like the care but they don't!
>I was asleep the other night, they are not suppose to offer
>you a load when you are showing you sleeping, but they
>called 3 times and then marked it against me when I said no
>I was tired and needed to grab some sleep.
>Then today, when I show out of service till 1300, I sit and
>sit and sit. I call for my board spot and they tell me I am
>out of service till 1300 when it was already 1600.
>They said they couldn't place me back in service EVEN THOUGH
>they demand you to give them a return date and time!
>Whats the point if I have to update it anyways and they
>bypass me if I am showing out of service?
>So, since we have a dumb law here that prohibts trucks in my
>area, I had to drive 2 miles to place myself back in
>service.
>THEY HAVE TO MANY RULES WHEN IT SERVES THEIR NEEDS AND NO
>RULES THAT SERVES THE NEEDS OF THE DRIVER!
>Time to move on............I just wish my o/o would move the
>truck because he is the best of the best....but he said
>no....so now what to do........
>
>
>
>Fort Wayne
>Now That Is Stupid!
no offense fort wayne i remember a previous company you were with you seemed to have alot of the same problems maybe just maybe it has something to do with the way you do things not saying that is the case just making a statement that we all bring some of the problems on our selves although back then you posted under a different name and yes we worked for the same company for a short while
 

Falligator

Expert Expediter
Well, beg to differ with the ohio indiana thing. I was in Florida (which I should have stayed) and Panther called me at 2000 hrs wanting me to DH 190 miles to Adel, GA. and take a load to Acworth, GA. dispatch offered me 1st out when done b/c they really needed someone to cover the load and 60$ to dh to p/u so I took the load and I sat on my 1st out til 1am. I then dheaded to Georgetown, KY b/c they had a million vans in Knoxville, TN. and I didn't get a load until 1000 am and it was p/u in Lexington w/ a stop off and drop in Greensburg, IN. It too gave a first out and it dropped this evening at 1430. I am now sitting at home still after deadheading from Greensburg, IN. to Salem, OH over 300 miles with a first out and I still haven't got a load. Either they are skipping over me or they simply don't have any freight to move. But that is kinda funny since I called in and they are too busy to accept any calls tonight. (try calling in for your board position) it can't handle any calls. What's going on here??


ShawnF
O/O
11997....?????
 

hondaking38

Veteran Expediter
sometimes the 1st out doesnt mean anything.. ive sat in grand rapids with a supposedly first out for 24 hours and it was posted which you can see over the internet.....i have also posted my 1st out in bucyrus and after 4 hours without a load i checked the pc and they had me on a mini 12 hours in advance without anything coming over the qc. i called and told them to take me off it because i could get a load in the next 15 minutes and sure enough i did... just some small tricks they play..its called covering the load at any expence..
 

Falligator

Expert Expediter
I'm not on any load or anything like that right now I'm just peeved b/c I am still sitting here.>>>but next week I could have a 3000 mile week. just the ups and downs of expediting. It stinks b/c I can't call in to find out if my first out was actually activated they aren't taking any calls.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well, 190 for 230 loaded, even with $60 to cover deadhead, is a loser. The fuel was covered for the deadhead, but that's three hours of pure unpaid drive time in order to take a load 230 miles. That's an 8 hour day for no money. What's your time worth? Not sure if I'd have done that run for anything less than a flat $350 and a First Out, and I'd have asked for, and likely gotten, a flat $400. If they truly needed it delivered that badly, they'd have paid it.

OK, then, after dropping off in suburban Atlanta with a first out, there is no way that I'd up and deadhead on my own dime to friggin' Georgetown, KY. In this business, especially with Panther, unnecessary deadhead will just kill you. It will, absolutely, make the difference between making and losing money over the long term. Know your Cost Per Mile (CPM).

Take your total miles driven, including personal miles, and subtract the loaded miles. The difference is the amount of unpaid miles driven. If that figure is more than 30% (35% absolute max) of your total miles driven, then you're deadheading too many miles. I try to keep mine between 28% and 30%. Too few deadhead miles and you are sitting and waiting for too many loads to come to you. Too many deadhead miles and you're chasing loads.

With a first out in Acworth, GA, I'd have driven 12 miles north and parked my butt at the TA in Cartersville. The chances are that any load coming out of there would take you north, and it's better to be paid loaded miles in that direction than it is to eat them and deadhead in that direction. You essentially deadheaded 350 miles from Acworth to take a 150 mile run to Indiana.

And now you've deadheaded another 300 miles, with that First Out in tow, the same First Out you had back in Georgia, to Salem, Ohio. So, since dropping off in Acworth you've driven a cool 800 miles and have 150 loaded miles to show for it. Oh my dear Lord. With a First Out, you want to be sitting in a place where several loads a day go out, most of which tend to be longer loads, like Indy, or Cincy, both of which were right there where you already were. Not up in the bowels of Short Run Central, A.K.A., northern Ohio.

Lets say your CPM in that van is 50 cents. You'd have been far, far, far better off, hands down, sitting at the TA in Georgia and taking your chances there for a couple of days, even over the weekend until Monday. Or at the very least, if you're looking to deadhead all over the place just for the helluvit, taking the Acworth First Out to Charlotte where most loads going out of there are 500 miles or more.

Panther manages to convince people in orientation that deadhead doesn't matter, that the only thing that matters is getting to that next load. Hot steaming horse hockey.

Quit trying to call Panther about board position and first outs and whatnot. Use the QC. Ask, then forget about it. Wednesday morning, late, I delivered a 650 mile run to Newport News, VA, then deadheaded the 100 miles or so to Richmond, then almost immediately had to turn down another 650 mile run because I couldn't do those back to back without sleep. I slept the rest of the day, then sat here all day Thursday with nary a beep. It happens, especially in an area like this where there aren't multiple loads going out. Most people, I guess, would have been on the phone squawking about their board position or whatever, or they'd have picked up and deadheaded to some place silly. But there aren't that many people down here, so I sat patiently, played on the computer, kept myself occupied. Late Thursday night I sent a simple message over the QC asking for my position, which came back as first out, which I already knew since there are so few people around here.

Late Friday morning I got a load picking up 100 miles away going 600 miles to Alma, MI, with a 34 cent FSC. So, I deadheaded 200 miles from Newport News for 600 loaded (that's 25% deadhead overall) with a high FSC, a FSC that more than paid for the 200 miles I had to deadhead. This load doesn't deliver until Monday, so I have a nice leisurely weekend to drive to Michigan while making more than $600 to do it. Even after turning down a 650 mile run and sitting for a day and a half, this load puts me at 2150 miles for the week, with less than 30% deadhead.

Fight the smart fight.


Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
 

Falligator

Expert Expediter
Thx. yeah probably should have stayed on the atlanta brd maybe would have gotten a fri run for mon delv. who knows....i'm still sitting here....guess i'll clean my van.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
charlotte
Would you do this;

Driver 770 miles within you HOS to pick up and deliver less than a mile from the pickup?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
No, vans do not get anything for deadhead, unless it's something like 10 cents for a paid empty move, or unless you can negotiate a paid deadhead. Only deadhead Panther automatically pays to vans are the number of mile above 100 from the point of dispatch to the shipper. 135 miles from shipper pays 35 miles deadhead at 25 cents per.

This is why it just cracks me up that they pound it into your head during orientation that deadhead doesn't matter, that the only thing that matters is getting to the next load, because you'll only make money when loaded. And people buy into it. I've had people tell me straight up, "Oh, I never worry about deadhead. It's all about getting the next load." Meanwhile, they're driving 3000 miles a week for 1200 loaded, and they can't understand why they aren't making any money.

With a van in expediting, with most companies you can expect your deadhead to be about a third, or 33%. But the 200 miles for 600 loaded is actually 25%, not 33%. It's 800 miles driven with 200 unpaid.

If I were dispatched 200 miles to pick up a load, then 100 of those miles would be paid at 25 cents per mile. That's another reason I hate to deadhead on my own in the same direction that a load would have likely taken me if I had stayed put.

I dropped off in Newport News around noon, and since there is no board down there, and since there isn't really any good place to sit and wait, particularly one for sleeping all afternoon, I deadheaded on my own up to the truck stops in Richmond to get some sleep. It was actually only bout 65 miles. From there, I had a pickup in Strasburg, VA, 113 miles away. The 13 miles were paid deadhead at 25 cents per mile.

But my point is, even if it was 200 purely unpaid miles, a 600 mile run with a .34 FSC for a van with a 13.5 cent actual fuel cost is a stone cold winner. 34 cents over 800 miles is 25.5 cents a mile for all miles driven. I'll take the extra 12 cents per mile for 800 miles in a heartbeat. That's an extra $96 for fuel that can go towards any future unpaid deadhead I may have. It also allows me to accept a 900 mile run with a 9 cent FSC and not give it a second's thought. A long run like that is likely to be all unencumbered Intestate where I get better fuel mileage, anyway.

Year to date I'm way ahead on that score. My total FSC YTD figured for all miles driven is 13.06 cents per mile. And my YTD fuel costs for all miles driven is 12.6 cents. That's free fuel. And that doesn't even include the additional monies negotiated to help cover additional deadhead on the front or back ends of loads that would otherwise be unpaid. (YTD that figure actually reduces my fuel cost per mile by a little more than a penny, now that I do the math on it.)

Like I said, you're gonna have to deadhead in this business, particularly with a company like Panther while driving a van. And it's gonna be around a third of all miles driven. So they key is to deadhead smart. Don't deadhead a lot of miles to an area where you're likely to be fed a steady diet of short runs paying low NLMI FSC rates. You're better off sitting right where you are and waiting for a load that takes you there, paid.

If you've just deadheaded 80 miles and they offer you a 300 mile load with another 90 miles of deadhead with a 16 cent FSC, turn it down, unless it's taking you to a really good area where you are likely to get a good load out of. That's 470 miles for 300 loaded, which is 36% total deadhead, which is too much for a 16 cent FSC. And if it to an area where you'll have additional deadhead on the back end, there ya go.

Depending on how much deadhead you'll have on the back end, ask for an additional $25 or $50 (just be reasonable) to help cover the deadhead you've already done, the unpaid deadhead to the pickup, and the deadhead you'll have to do after delivery (which also helps pay for your time). If they won't pay it, fine, at least you're not losing money by taking a revenue-losing load.

When they offer you a load, they don't know. They don't know how much deadhead you've just put in to get where you are, they don't know how much deadhead you'll have to do after you deliver. They don't know. It's not their job to know. They're trying to get a load covered. Period. You have to take care of yourself and your business, otherwise you're simply a tool for the carrier. When you take care of yourself, that puts you in the position of being able to help them cover less profitable loads (not money losers, tho) which hopefully will get you in the position of getting a more profitable load, and it helps keep your acceptance up, which tends to get you better loads, and so it goes.

Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Hhhmmmm.... Nashville, just 90 miles from home.

But, I've sat over the weekend many times in Nashville. Problem is, it's 90 unpaid deadhead miles home, and then between 60-90 or more when I come back in service on Monday. Those unpaid miles add up, and they subtract from my bottom line. If I stay put, I'm high up on the board come Monday. If I go home and then come back out, I'm well down on the board and it may be a day or two before I get a load.

If I go home a lot like that, pretty soon I'm working 3 days a week and complaining that that stoopid cat won't give me any miles. :D

Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
 

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
I would tell you all about my short loads this week and how much I didn't make but I can't. I am with express-1 and I am so busy driving and racking up dollars that I just don't have the time.....:)
 

FAMILYEXPDT

Seasoned Expediter
gREG...YOU MEAN dh 770 MILES FOR A LOAD THAT GOES 1 MILE? Man pulling reefer I have covered loads that had more dh than loaded...but then we got 1$ a mile for all DH...it all depends on how much they are paying me. how much profit is in the load for me....I try to stick to 20% DH but I can tell you right now I have run loads that were 70% DH just because they were so profitable....I guess it goes with what goes into the pocket.



-charlotte
 
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