Question on yearly net income.

Mars22 · Oct 21, 2011

I am a newb looking to get a van, read a ton of forum posts, did a bunch of searching, and I havent come across more than one or two people saying what their yearly net was as an O/O with a CV. I have seen a few posts that have total miles and figure out a base gross pay based on gas mileage and CPM and they were in the $50K+ range after gas. I know insurance and other things take a toll but thats a hell of a lot more than I make now.

I know its a personal subject but this is business, what do you net a year after all expenses and taxes?

I want to know if its financially worth the trouble of living in a van for a few years. I dont have kids and have always wanted to travel around for a bit.

PS. sorry if this has been covered but I did a a lot of searching and came up empty.

Turtle · Oct 22, 2011

About $25,000, give or take.

ChrisGa23 · Oct 22, 2011

When I drove the best I made was almost $26,000 a year but I did not own my own van. I would say $50,000 is doable as long as you stay available as much as possible, keep the van maintained, and know what loads are profitable and those that are not. The fuel surcharge will almost pay for the fuel itself and on a few loads a week you may make a few pennies a mile profit off of it. But in my opinion to be profitable you need to know the business and I assume you are new to the business. Might I suggest and many others will suggest that you drive for a fleet owner for 6 months or more and learn the basic ropes. That way you can save more for your van and learn and make mistakes without it costing you an arm and leg and possibly running your business in the ground.

Good Luck !

paullud · Oct 22, 2011

In a van I would say to expect $20-25k, if things go OK and you stay out. You might do a little better if things really start moving but things seem to be slowing down.

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Mars22 · Oct 22, 2011

Thats it? Doesnt really seem worth it when you can make $20-25K doing pizza delivery 40 hours a week and be home after 8 hours instead of 8 days/weeks and drive a quarter as many miles.

Turtle · Oct 22, 2011

Yes, that's it. And that's why most vanners fail at expediting, because for most of them, the money really isn't worth being gone and living in a van for weeks at a time. Those who think they can get a van and make easy money quickly find out the money isn't that much, and it ain't all that easy. Those who are successful are not out here to get rich, but are out here because they like the lifestyle of being on the road, of being their own boss, and getting to see America at night.

paullud · Oct 22, 2011

Mars22 said:
Thats it? Doesnt really seem worth it when you can make $20-25K doing pizza delivery 40 hours a week and be home after 8 hours instead of 8 days/weeks and drive a quarter as many miles.

It is the lifestyle that so many drivers love and find the money makes it worth it for them. I feel like I am on vacation and love being on the road.

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mjmsprt40 · Oct 22, 2011

Right now, I'm looking into a second "business" to run with this one, if that's any indication. Look around and you find a lot of O/Os have their hand in two or three pies. Not just us vanners either, but the straight trucks too. Running for one outfit only can leave you sitting, and the smaller the vehicle it seems the more sitting you do.

Note: I've been an independent contractor now since November of '87, most of that time driving for a courier outfit in the Chicago area. That outfit began to get more into what might properly be described as "small cartage" than the stuff expediters do about ten years back, and now it's impossible to make it in that outfit. So, now I'm in expedited, and will be mixing things up a bit with a second outfit that does a mix of local and distance. The local will put a little money in the bank, the distance-- for both outfits-- is the kind of stuff that you might pay to do if you had the money-- but since it will pay somewhat more than expenses that's "gravy".

Oh, before I forget: I've had a really bad year. After everything is said and done, I'll do good to have an adjusted gross over 15 grand. My best year ever was about 40 grand, that was in 2006. In a standard E-150 Ford van.

Moot · Oct 22, 2011

Turtle said:
Those who are successful are not out here to get rich, but are out here because they like the lifestyle of being on the road, of being their own boss, and getting to see America at night.

Another benefit is the tax deductions as an O/O, especially when put up against a second, larger income.

chefdennis · Oct 23, 2011

Comparing "Net" income with others is not a realistic thing...when you take in all deductions as a business owner no 2 of us do the same things....then take in consideration how is your business structured? How is the ownership of your van going to be handled? Are you going to buy it or lease it...Do you have more then 1 business? I have 4, my wife has 2...In 5 yrs, this is the 1st yr my net has been over $5 grand for this business, but my gross has been over $90 grand for this business for the last 2 yrs..This years gross will be considerably higher..but since i bought and upfitted a new truck this yr, my net will be less again....

paullud · Oct 23, 2011

chefdennis said:
Comparing "Net" income with others is not a realistic thing...when you take in all deductions as a business owner no 2 of us do the same things....then take in consideration how is your business structured? How is the ownership of your van going to be handled? Are you going to buy it or lease it...Do you have more then 1 business? I have 4, my wife has 2...In 5 yrs, this is the 1st yr my net has been over $5 grand for this business, but my gross has been over $90 grand for this business for the last 2 yrs..This years gross will be considerably higher..but since i bought and upfitted a new truck this yr, my net will be less again....

I think Obama is targeting you to make sure all you billionaires are paying your fair share.

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chefdennis · Oct 23, 2011

Paul wrote:

I think Obama is targeting you to make sure all you billionaires are paying your fair share.

Hey, not only do i know where to "sit"...I know where to "Hide" !!!

Mars22 · Nov 7, 2011

I have talked to several companies hiring cargo vans and they have all said they pay about a dollar+ a mile, 2000-2500+ miles a week(less than 10% dead head), and 100% fuel surcharge. I just dont see how you can only be making $20-30K a year pulling down close to $2K a week. Even with van payments, maintenance, insurance, its still a huge amount of money a month.

Are they just lying that much? Something doesnt add up here.

paullud · Nov 7, 2011

Mars22 said:
I have talked to several companies hiring cargo vans and they have all said they pay about a dollar+ a mile, 2000-2500+ miles a week(less than 10% dead head), and 100% fuel surcharge. I just dont see how you can only be making $20-30K a year pulling down close to $2K a week. Even with van payments, maintenance, insurance, its still a huge amount of money a month.

Are they just lying that much? Something doesnt add up here.

Are you joking or is that serious? If you are serious what companies told you that you would get that many miles? Not only would you be doing well making $20-30k in a van, you would be doing much better than all the ones that went under on those same promises from recruiters.

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Mars22 · Nov 7, 2011

paullud said:
Are you joking or is that serious? If you are serious what companies told you that you would get that many miles? Not only would you be doing well making $20-30k in a van, you would be doing much better than all the ones that went under on those same promises from recruiters.

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See, I dont really see anyone in their right mind living in a van for weeks at a time to make just above minimum wage.

If you can barely scrape out $25K no one would be doing this.

Turtle · Nov 7, 2011

OK, so all those recruiters are telling you the truth, and we're all lying to you. I won't ask you to think about why a recruiter would be motivated to mislead and stretch the truth, nor what possible motivation we would have for trying to mislead you. I'll just say, good luck in your expediting career.

One thing that is unavoidable, however, is that whatever you make, one-third goes to operating expenses (what it costs you to move freight from A-to-B and the other operating expenses necessary to be out here), one-third goes to the truck (repair, maintenance, outfitting it), and one-third goes to the driver (what you take home). "After gas" isn't even close to the big picture.

I wasn't going to comment on it, because it's just too easy, but I can't help myself. Where you think "I don't really see anyone in their right mind living in a van for weeks at a time to make just above minimum wage," the rest of us know that it's really....

I don't really see anyone in their right mind living in a van for weeks at a time. period.

greg334 · Nov 7, 2011

Mars22 said:
I have talked to several companies hiring cargo vans and they have all said they pay about a dollar+ a mile, 2000-2500+ miles a week(less than 10% dead head), and 100% fuel surcharge.

You tell me where this is happening, I want to go there.

I would guess a 1000 a week if you are lucky, 25 to 30% DH and maybe pennies for a FSC.

paullud · Nov 7, 2011

Mars22 said:
See, I dont really see anyone in their right mind living in a van for weeks at a time to make just above minimum wage.

If you can barely scrape out $25K no one would be doing this.

It may seem odd but it is the love of a lifestyle. Why did cowboys do the same in the old west? If you want further proof that van owners aren't doing as well as company truck drivers I can tell you I am on my last van load for awhile and I am going to be getting back in a truck this week. Is it because I love dealing with government regulations? Is it because I love dealing with 4 wheelers that don't know how to drive around us? Or maybe I want all the extra responsibility with the same pay? Obviously none of these are true, I just want more money and I don't see myself getting ahead doing this. The money just isn't enough right now for me to be able to save and spend what I should be.

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tumbleweeds · Nov 7, 2011

Mars22 said:
I have talked to several companies hiring cargo vans and they have all said they pay about a dollar+ a mile, 2000-2500+ miles a week(less than 10% dead head), and 100% fuel surcharge. I just dont see how you can only be making $20-30K a year pulling down close to $2K a week. Even with van payments, maintenance, insurance, its still a huge amount of money a month.

Are they just lying that much? Something doesnt add up here.

I don't know about anyone else but the deadhead is greater than 10% for us. It depends on who you drive for and which runs you accept. As a team we take long runs when we can but some times the deadhead after the delivery can eat you up. As a solo with shorter runs if you stay in the freight lanes you might have much less deadhead than we do. Its not a gravy out here. The extra expenses can sneak up on you if you are not careful. We us Mobil 1 so an oil change can cost $80. And we do that every two weeks. Also add in tires, brakes etc. We gross a lot but don't bank as much as we would like. Think long and hard about how much you will miss the creature comforts for not a lot of money. Is it worth being hot in the summer and cold in the winter? Dirty showers, bad food, lot lizards in Laredo and heavy traffic in NY,NY? If it sounds like fun, come join us 2nd class citizens falling to sleep to the sounds of truck stop traffic and the smell of diesel. It's like living in the Seventies without the beads and incense.