Prohibit Pledge of Allegiance

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Ah, Pamela Geller, the poster girl for unimpassioned, unbiased journalism. She's the woman who believes, with a 50,000 word copious justification, that Barack Obama is the illegitimate son of Malcom X because, you know, they kinda look alike.

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The statement of Adam Soltani, executive director of CAIR-Oklahoma is in response to a pair of bills in the Oklahoma legislature, and it's a statement that mirrors that of anyone with half a brain. Both bills are nothing more than yet another state mandate intruding on what should be local control of schools by local parents and teachers, but that's just one of the minor problems with them.

Another problem is, if the government wants the allegiance of its citizens, it needs to stop trying to indoctrinate our youth into blindly follow the government's orders because they're told to.

The first bill, SB 1143, authored by State Sen. Rob Standridge (R-Norman), would require elementary students to recite the pledge each day. The other, SB 1500, from State Sen. Larry Boggs (R-Wilburton) would require essentially the same thing. On Monday, both bills sailed through the Senate Education Committee and are now heading towards the full Senate for a vote. Neither bill if passed will survive a court challenge, because as anyone with half a brain will tell you, requiring elementary students to recite the pledge is the definition of compelled speech, which is a pretty major violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

Now when you read these word in the proper context, instead of a context fantasized by Pamela Geller, they begin to make intelligent sense:

We believe that mandating the Pledge of Allegiance contradicts its contents. The liberty discussed in the Pledge of Allegiance includes the right to make that pledge freely rather than by compulsion. We dishonor the Pledge of Allegiance by mandating its recital.

The passage of such legislation also has the potential of infringement on First Amendment rights. The pledge of allegiance is truly a sign of patriotism, however upholding our constitution is the best way to express our patriotism.

The only reason Adam Soltani, executive director of CAIR-Oklahoma, was asked for his comment is because he lives in a state where the legislators and most of its esteemed learned citizenry see Muslim Boogeymen under every bed and in every closet in the state, and those Boogeymen are the reason these bills were written.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"Another problem is, if the government wants the allegiance of its citizens, it needs to stop trying to indoctrinate our youth into blindly follow the government's orders because they're told to."

You would, at the very least, have to get the feds out of education, better yet, eliminate public schools. Leave solely to those who have children to insure their education.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
You would, at the very least, have to get the feds out of education, better yet, eliminate public schools. Leave solely to those who have children to insure their education.
I think you mean ensure, not insure, but nevertheless, public schools is exactly what those who had children devised as a way to ensure their children received an education.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"I think you mean ensure, not insure, but nevertheless, public schools is exactly what those who had children to ensure their children received an education."

At one time public schools were controlled by the public. Each school set it's own standards, set their own cirriculum, without interference from the State or federal governments. Now, the take payers have almost NO say in who teaches or what is taught. Not even those with kids have any real say. Education is now DICTATED by the Feds, State and the unions. Those who pay the bills, those with kids, don't count.

We need to return to community schools, controlled and paid for ONLY by those who have kids there, OR, if others CHOOSE to participate, they can contribute.

There should be NO state or federal involvement and ALL elementary and secondary schools should be TOTALLY controlled by those who pay the bills. As it stands now, one of the biggest bills I pay out each year is taxes for schools, I have NO kids in them, and almost no say what so ever how my hard earned dollars are spent.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves." - John Adams, 1785
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Ah, Pamela Geller, the poster girl for unimpassioned, unbiased journalism.
Actually, I think she's the poster girl for complete mental derangement ... which is why it isn't at all surprising that LDB would have her in his stable of "go to" sources ...

It's also not real surprising that he would be in favor of forced government political indoctrination ... because, you know: it's the "libertarian" thing to do ... :rolleyes:

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss:

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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There are those in here who like to ridicule the families of others. Those "people" SHOULD be ignored!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves." - John Adams, 1785

Adams could NEVER for see the crap that controls our schools today. Scum like that did not exist in Adam's day. Obama could not have even be imagined. Neither could Reagan

The PEOPLE should have 100% control over the property they earn, wages included. That does NOT exist today. I have NO say on how the money that is extorted from me for education is spent. (more than $900 PER YEAR to produce illiterate heroin addicts, and Obama bums)

The United States spends MORE per student that most, if not all, countries on this planet, and yet, we lag behind many in what we produce. WHY? Scum runs our education. Little good all this spending does! We end up with "welfare rangers", "medicade Mommas" "Obamas and Reagans"

What a WASTE of people and money. Freakin academics kinda suck!

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows - CBS News
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
College educated idiots, like Obama, Pelosi, Reagan and Bush, have run up a 17 TRILLION dollar debt. YEP, all that FORCED BY LAW OR YOU GO TO JAIL AND LOSE YOUR HOUSE education has done WONDERS here! Let's keep it up! (like we have any choice) BETTER YET! Let's EXPAND IT!

Like my father-in-law used to say, "Can you think for yourself or did you go to college?"
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Seems like MOST of our "law makers" went to the same college as this guy did.
 

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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
My go to is Paul Harvey. He's the last honest journalist. Sadly it's impossible to go to him any more. I've never heard of Pamela Geller by name. I do find Sarah Michelle nice enough to look at though.
 

jamom123

Expert Expediter
"The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves." - John Adams, 1785

I don't believe the education system we have today is what they were hoping for.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using EO Forums mobile app
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I don't believe the education system we have today is what they were hoping for.

Sent from my SCH-I510 using EO Forums mobile app

Amen to that, but then, what is?
As to ceding control of education to parents, that's how it was before schools were built, and it didn't work out so well. Because what it takes to have babies is not even remotely related to what it takes to educate children. There are numerous examples of parents in every single day's news who shouldn't be entrusted with a pet gerbil, let alone a human being. My latest favorite example: the 5 year old girl who died after being forced to drink several liters of grape soda in a 10 minute timeframe, as punishment for drinking some that her stepmom had wanted herself.
What ignorant [and/or abusive] parents don't know kills children, every single day. We can't stop that, but is it a good idea to encourage even more of it, by removing the oversight the school provides?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
College educated idiots, like Obama, Pelosi, Reagan and Bush, have run up a 17 TRILLION dollar debt. YEP, all that FORCED BY LAW OR YOU GO TO JAIL AND LOSE YOUR HOUSE education has done WONDERS here! Let's keep it up! (like we have any choice) BETTER YET! Let's EXPAND IT!

Like my father-in-law used to say, "Can you think for yourself or did you go to college?"

Sarcasm does not an argument make.
Your father in law [in this example of what passes for 'wit' among those who denigrate college - maybe because it was never an option for them?] sounds both ignorant and bitter, and we hardly need more like that.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Adams could NEVER for see the crap that controls our schools today. Scum like that did not exist in Adam's day. Obama could not have even be imagined. Neither could Reagan
You think 18th century politics was devoid of scum? BWWWAAAHHHAAA!!!! There was back-stabbing, scheming and conniving by nearly everyone in politics that puts today's lame politics to shame. Politics at the time of the Constitution and the first presidency was not determined by political parties, but by political and public alliances. These alliances were usually built around one person or a small group of people who were lobbying for support among their peers. And it was a breeding ground for scummy. Washington decided to throw in the towel after two terms because of the scum of scheming politics. In his farewell address he warned of coalescing into political parties, because he knew it was coming.

The beginning of a political party system started quickly enough, with the strong polarized opposition of Thomas Jefferson to Alexander Hamilton, forcing politicians to support one side or another. Hamilton was a Federalist who was in support for strong, near-iron-fisted, centralized governmental control. Hamilton's scummy began as President Washington's Secretary of Treasury, who took on the responsibility of creating an economic policy plan America could use to erase the national debt it had garnered during the American Revolution. That involved heavy taxes and a strong central federal bank, subsidies and tariffs that would protect American businesses, but did little in the way of supporting the farming lifestyle of many southern states, which also planted the seeds of the industrial North against the agrarian South that would cause problems in less than a century. His scummy continued while he worked behind the scenes to cut John Adams off at the knees. The Democratic-Republican Party, organized by James Madison in Congress, arose to stand in opposition to the Federalists.

The press was little more than tools of political parties. Paranoia was the order of the day within the minds of Americans, especially during the early days of the republic, when confidence in the new American government and its democratic institutions was still weak. Fears of a collapse into tyranny, radicalism, or monarchy ran rampant among the populace, fueled by sensationalist news media controlled by competing political agendas. The whole press was essentially scandal mongers, fed information to print by each politician's rivals.

The newspaper owned by Benjamin Franklin's grandson accused Washington of conspiring with the British during the war. John Adams was frequently charged with setting up a new monarchy with himself installed as king. Rivals of Thomas Jefferson let it be known that as president he would ban Christianity and arrest all Christians. "All Bibles would be burned, all churches would be torn down, altars would be erected to the goddess of reason, anyone who believed in Christianity would go to the guillotine."

The next century saw anti-Mason groups accuse presidents like Andrew Jackson of secret loyalties while anti-Catholic parties alleged conspiracies to carry out the pope's orders through sleeper agents in the White House.

Clinton ordered Vince Foster murdered, John Kerry would ban the Bible of elected, Obama is a Muslim, and illiterate "C" student George Bush was the brilliant mastermind behind 911. Like the Bible says, there is nothing new under the sun.

The PEOPLE should have 100% control over the property they earn, wages included. That does NOT exist today. I have NO say on how the money that is extorted from me for education is spent. (more than $900 PER YEAR to produce illiterate heroin addicts, and Obama bums)
You do have a say, but you have to go before the school board and say it. (along with the illiterate heroin addicts and Obama bums, that $900 also produces law-abiding, hard working, duck hunting conservatives)
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I don't believe the education system we have today is what they were hoping for.
I agree. Education back then was based on an educated mind having the basics of a classical education (languages, literature, philosophy, history art, archeology, mathematics and science). Political correctness has gotten us away from that.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
My go to is Paul Harvey.
What ... via seance ?

He's the last honest journalist. Sadly it's impossible to go to him any more.
Hence the motivation to develop a new stable ...

Based on how it's going thus far, I propose "Leo's Loonies" as a working name.

I've never heard of Pamela Geller by name.
Oh really ?

Quite frankly, I find that assertion to be rather implausible ... in light of the fact that you started the following thread previously, by linking an article of hers at "Freedom's Outpost":

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/soapbox/58736-jihad-charter-schools.html

... not to mention a number of threads where she has been discussed and you have participated.

One would have to assume that if you have posted her stuff before, you are at least aware of her existence ... unless you want to disabuse us of the opinion we have of your fine sense of intellectual refinement and discernment ...

I'm gonna hazard a guess and say at this point, the "I've-never-heard-of-her" excuse has run its course and died a natural death ...

Bury it next to ol' Paul ... preferably before it starts stinkin' any worse than it alreadly is ...

In terms of explanations for the above assertion, I come up with the following as possibles:

1. Early onset Alzheimers, with severe memory loss.

2. Disingenuous/dishonest denial, in order to avoid responsibility.

3. An inability to observe the obvious, where the observational capacity is so low, that simply venturing outside the house poses great danger of bodily harm, including possible loss of life ...

I'm sure there may be other possibilities as well.

I do find Sarah Michelle nice enough to look at though.
Perhaps you should pay closer attention to who the authors are of the articles you are linking ... rather than engaging in lusty musings about Sarah Michelle ...

And BTW: in Sarah Michelle's case it's G-e-l-l-a-r ... not G-e-l-l-e-r ...
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
There are those in here who like to ridicule the families of others. Those "people" SHOULD be ignored!
There are those in here that like to ridicule and denigrate their own family members ... like say a brother for instance ...

Should they be ignored as well ?

:rolleyes:
 

Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
The whole thing is bull crap. It's the Pledge Of Allegiance, if you're gonna live here, learn it, say it and quit complaining. Never heard such annoying crap in my life. It's not about religion or politics or anything else. It's about being an American.

It's funny how they say you can't say it in school or maybe it's you have to be excused if yo choose not to say it but we sure saw a lot of children that seemed proud to do it. When we did Wreaths Across America we said the Pledge more than we have said it since we got out of grade school. Reciting it is simply a patriotic and supportive American gesture that we should have our children return to. So many things have been done away with since the time we all went to school and those changes have altered some of the values our children need instilled upon them. It's time to put all this petty crap behind and be an American or go home. Whomever can put their religion,political and other personal issues aside for the minute time it takes to participate. After all this is where you were born or if not this is where you chose to come so show some support for the symbol that represents where you live.

Sorry if I ranted or repeated, this whole subject just really pi**es me off !!!!!
 
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