Paterno should be canned.
- Thread starter jaminjim
- Start date
clcooper
Expert Expediter
no wonder the USA is so screwed up . stop and think if this happened to your child . i bet and know you all . would be out for everybodies blood . even the guy that mows the grass .
BUT NO IT WASNT YOUR CHILD SO WHY SHOULD YOU CARE . you only care they fired a football GOD . and messed up the season . is all you care about .
so when the first child was abused and it was reported that means they dont have to report it if it happens again with the same child or even with a differant child .
Mike McQueary did what the law says he was to do . he told the one that was in charge of him . which was JoePa. then from there the story gets changed around to help Sandusky .
"Jerry Sandusky and a younger child "horsing around in the shower" what is told when it finally got to the top . which it should of stop with JoePa making the report.
so after Mike reported it how many more levels did it need to go before it was reported to the police . 20 . how many would you want it to go trough if it was your child .
"Pennsylvania state police Commissioner Frank Noonan said that though some may have fulfilled their legal obligation to report suspected abuse, "somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child." Noonan added that anyone who knows about suspected abuse, "whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building," has "a moral responsibility to call us."
keep kissing JoePa butt because he may help you when you break the law also .
was he the greatest coach . NO . did Penn State have great team players during the time Joe was the coach YES . to be a great coach you need great players too . . so if all the players had no legs , butter fingers, fat and lazy, partied all night ever night . do you think joe would of been as great . as people worship as .
witness23
Veteran Expediter
He did do something wrong. He didn't make sure this never happened again on campus, let alone the schools showers.
Obviously we are looking at this from different ends of the spectrum. You think since he went to the Athletic Director and the campus police he did enough. This is where you and I differ in opinion. By Paterno's own admission he said he didn't do enough, and I totally agree with him. He should've done more. My argument isn't if he should've been fired or not, it is the argument of, did he do enough to protect these victims. Let's not forget about the victims.
In your mind, what is the accusation or assumption?
Seriously, the campus police, those authorities? I'm not even sure if he went to the campus police, he did however go to his superior, the Athletic Director 24 hours later. Why would the authorities have a vested interest in taking him down? My opinion is that he should've went to the State College Police as well.
The question in my opinion is, did Paterno do enough? I'll let Joe answer that for you, "I didn't do enough".
Just because the guy was never charged with a crime doesn't mean nothing happened.
At the very least the guy should've never had access to the facilities where something like this could ever happen again.
Look, my argument is that he didn't do enough. If I were in the same predicament I would've made sure the local authorities would've been informed as well. And since the accusations came from your one time quarterback and at that time your graduate assistant, I would have made sure the guy was never able to use the facilities ever again.
You need only to take a look at the Catholic Church and its problems with their priests to find the correlations to this incident.
Paterno should've done more, that's what I'm accusing him of.
witness23
Veteran Expediter
Over the top.
That's not his job. He's not in charge of the campus, nor the school's showers. He's not even in charge of the Athletic Department's showers. He's a football coach on a college campus.
I never said he did enough, I said he did all that he was required to, and did nothing wrong. He certainly could have done more, at least in the abstract.
Let's also not forget about the guy who actually did something wrong, the guy who (allegedly) molested the kids.
That he knew about it, did nothing when he found out about it, was complicit in it, and willfully allowed it to happen.
No, not those authorities. He went to the AD and the President of the university, precisely the people the law requires him to go to.
The authorities are the District Attorney and/or the Attorney General, who's vested interest as an officer of the court is a sworn oath to uphold the law.
OK, but if he had gone to the campus police, or the local or state police, he actually would have been breaking the law by doing so.
And just because you think something happened doesn't mean it did.
I agree, and have said that at least once.
Well, if that was indeed your argument, they why didn't you make that argument, instead of the argument of, "There is enough out there to condemn the man now, just think of all the stuff that isn't in the public record that we don't even know about."?
That's straw man logic. You cannot possibly know what you would do in the same situation unless you have actually been in that situation. It's easy to make a determination like that now, after the fact, despite it being purely hypothetical, but it's even easier when you can make it without also taking into consideration that Paterno and Sandusky were long-time close friends. You may very well be the type to do it, but most people will not just through long-time friends under the bus like that, and will instead try to protect and help them.
Guilt by association? Really?
Well OK then.
"Moral and ethical law are far more important than civil law"
Over the top, word for word what hard core Muslims say, and what hard core Orthodox Jews say, and what hard core Christians say. Over the top? Hardly. It's spot on.
witness23
Veteran Expediter
Actually I don't see it your way, but I do agree with parts of what you say you are accusing him of. But the fact remains, even if he had done exactly what you think you would have done in the same situation, it would have prevented nothing that Sandusky is charged with.
clcooper
Expert Expediter
then whos job is it . so who is in charge of the children safety . so if 9/11 is only the presidents fault . because he and only him is in charge of our safety . so if a off duty police officer saw what was going on he would have to find who was in charge and report it to them and only them . because it isnt his job
so glad you like the way people can word things to get themself out of trouble "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
people have gone to jail for just being in a the car while the other passanger murdered somebody too. so from what you are say they should not be in jail or if the murder comes to your house and ask to spend the night . Harboring
no Mike McQueary did what he was required to do . nobody else after him did what they were to do . so if the guy mowing grass reported it to his supervisor . the supervisor reports it to the one in charge of the grounds . the the one in charge of the grounds tells the President of the university
no he would not of been breaking the law on bit .
Mike McQueary didnt think he SAW . so because Mike McQueary was a red head he doesnt know what he saw .
there is enough out there . not to condemn but to fine and also remove from supervisor of any children
That's straw man logic. You cannot possibly know what you would do in the same situation unless you have actually been in that situation. It's easy to make a determination like that now, after the fact, despite it being purely hypothetical, but it's even easier when you can make it without also taking into consideration that Paterno and Sandusky were long-time close friends. You may very well be the type to do it, but most people will not just through long-time friends under the bus like that, and will instead try to protect and help them.
Guilt by association? Really?
Well OK then.
yes people know enough about themself to know what they would doing in the same situation .
they have mandortory class for the people who are mandortory required to report . so they have training on what they are to do .
cover up because of being long time freinds . so if a family member murders somebody you are saying you should be able to protect and help your family member .
Harboring is usually charged when a friend or relative of a known criminal is found to have been helping or hiding that person.
why do we need laws if everybody dont have to follow them .
clcooper
Expert Expediter
yep if the USA would not of been bombed by Japan . the USA may not of been in WW2.
you are right Joe could of done more and prevented nothing . like sandusky could of already be in jail and there would of not been any more victims . but since nothing was done there was more victims .
I'll leave the rest of the rambling red herrings alone, but this one is worth addressing, because you failed to comprehend what I wrote:
"cover up because of being long time freinds . so if a family member murders somebody you are saying you should be able to protect and help your family member ."
No, I am not saying that if someone is a friend or a family member that I should be able to protect them, because I can't protect them, not legally anyway. What I said was, most people will not suddenly abandon that friendship or family connection and just throw their friends or family under the bus (despite absentmindedly using a homophone earlier). Most people will attempt, to a point, to protect close friends and family from harm, regardless of what form the harm may take.
It would be very different if Paterno witnessed something and failed to report it. But he didn't do that.
We know, still to this day, almost none of the facts surrounding this case, yet we have people still, to this day, who have judged him based on emotional conjecture and "what if" possibilities. Makes me feel proud to be an American, it does.
"cover up because of being long time freinds . so if a family member murders somebody you are saying you should be able to protect and help your family member ."
No, I am not saying that if someone is a friend or a family member that I should be able to protect them, because I can't protect them, not legally anyway. What I said was, most people will not suddenly abandon that friendship or family connection and just throw their friends or family under the bus (despite absentmindedly using a homophone earlier). Most people will attempt, to a point, to protect close friends and family from harm, regardless of what form the harm may take.
It would be very different if Paterno witnessed something and failed to report it. But he didn't do that.
We know, still to this day, almost none of the facts surrounding this case, yet we have people still, to this day, who have judged him based on emotional conjecture and "what if" possibilities. Makes me feel proud to be an American, it does.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Lets beat up Paula Deen now....
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/soapbox/51989-another-role-model-lets-us-down.html#post506490
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/soapbox/51989-another-role-model-lets-us-down.html#post506490
jaminjim
Veteran Expediter
I had no idea that Paterno was a role model.
Simple fact is he could have done more and should have. But he didn't. For someone to say he would have broken the law if he would have reported it to the Local or State police is odd. What law would have been broken?
To say that most would not turn in a friend or relative for child molesting is again a little odd.
Simple fact is he could have done more and should have. But he didn't. For someone to say he would have broken the law if he would have reported it to the Local or State police is odd. What law would have been broken?
To say that most would not turn in a friend or relative for child molesting is again a little odd.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Turtle wrote:
Comon now!!! A BBW - "GRITS" that cooks with Bacon, Bacon Grease, Butter and deep fries almost everything....How could she not be a role model!!!
I had no idea your role model was Paula Deen.
Comon now!!! A BBW - "GRITS" that cooks with Bacon, Bacon Grease, Butter and deep fries almost everything....How could she not be a role model!!!
Joe Paterno was indeed a role model - BIG TIME to his players and assistant coaches over the 60+ years he coached. One thing that might be considered is that the generation from which Paterno came would consider this homosexual pedophilia an unthinkable act, especially from one of their close associates. Strictly speculating, he was probably dealing with more than a little denial that one of his assistant coaches could do something that sleazy and perverted. However, he did what the culture of his University required and reported it to the authorities that had the power within that realm to take the appropriate action. Repeating myself - the authorities that had the power to put the homosexual pedophile Sandusky in the calaboose DID NOTHING. If ultimate blame needs to be placed on someone it should be layered as tar and feathers on the District Atty. of Centre County, PA - Ray Gricar - who was responsible for prosecuting Jerry Sandusky after receiving reports of these attacks in 1998. Oddly enough, Gricar disappeared without a trace in 2005 after seven years of inaction on these atrocities. Those that followed him continued the head-in-the-sand policy in spite of the accumulated evidence that came to their attention.
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What's even more odd is that reading comprehension and critical thinking is suddenly absent from this thread, because no one said anything of the sort.
clcooper
Expert Expediter
so protecting sandusky was more important the the children that looked up to all of them .. Joe knew about it and didnt do what he should of done . being the type of person he is worshiped to be . how many cops see the crimes happen . if people have to witness before they report . the crime rate would be alot higher then it is .
fact is Joe was told about what was seen .
fact is Joe did not report it to the police but to the Athletic Director and knew nothing was being down .
fact is all knew sandusky should not be naked with children in the shower . (let your child see you get out of the shower once and say something to a teacher . you will be getting a visit .)
facts is when mike told joe . it was joes duty to reported it to the Athletic Director and also to the police .
facts is joe told mike it will be taken care of . why mike didnt report it to the higher ups .
fact is if what joe didnt do or did do is ok .then what happened at Enron is ok too.
fact is you will wait untill they pull the trigger before you do any thing.
fact is more children have been abuse since the first report was made . and covered up ever since .
fact is since the children are from poor families and sandusky and the rest are rich and in power postions will get away with it . and the poor children will be crapped on.
fact is a great role model tells you not to do drugs and then that night they get arrested doing drugs . . a role model says they care about children . but they allow children to be abused and cover it up .