Life of the Truck

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
I am gona drive it till the wheels fall off?

That would be great if one knew that date and time.

How long does one keep a truck?

Why would one turn in a truck every three years? The loss of $ I do not understand for an O/O from a Corporate large fleet I can understand but they do not care or maintain there equipment like an OO does or would at least those that I know of.

How would one trade every three years and come out of it with more $ than a guy who buys good used, and drives it until a rebuild and than continues for another 300 400K thus getting 1.4 million miles or more. I know of one driver who just retired his truck with 2 million miles, now thats pretty good in my opinion.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
That's our approach. Run it until the wheels fall off. We bought brand new and plan to run it ten years at least. At our current rate of 12,000 miles a month and 144,000 miles a year, ten years will put 1,440,000 miles on the odometer.

We believe that with an agressive PM program starting with all-new equipment, the generator and shore power on the truck that eliminate idling, the light-duty use (CR-unit, 5,000 lbs freight max, mostly highway miles) we put the truck through, and the heavy-duty capacity we built into the truck (Class 8), and a quality brand (Volvo), 1.4 million miles is a reasonable expectation. And if not, we drop a new engine in and keep on going.

We can buy a lot of repairs for a fraction of the cost of a new truck and still be money ahead over ten years.

Yes, critics, the lift gate and reefer will one day fall apart and end up in pieces on the road. The generator will die an early death because of road salt. No sleeper will last ten years and it will become a money pit or dissatisfactory leaking cube. And all of the truck's wiring over time will rot away leaving us to spend the rest of our days writing checks to electrical shops that can't fix the problem , or leave us spending a fortune in electrical tape and creative bypass circuits. The truck may become infested with radioactive insects forcing us to abandon the vehicle. Space aliens may steal it away when we are not looking.

Or not. It is very easy to forecast negative results. It is just as easy to run a good PM program, be prepared for repairs when they happen, and expect the best.

Be prepared for the worst (new engine). Expect the best (ten years of reliable service at low overall cost of ownership).
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Thats about a dime a mile ownership costs not including recurring maintenance, and other maintenance. Even if you'd spend anuther dime maintaining, will be a cheap truck at twenty cent. Even running at a buck an a quarter a mile $1.25 you'd have $.30- fuel $.20- ownership/maint leaves $.75 for the owner per mile. 75X1,400,000 would be $1,050,000 for the ten years, and a 100K a year wages. Not bad for a couple ole truck drivers.
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
HISTORY: We agree 100% on something. Thanks I believe you will reach that milestone and that truck will probably only look like its two years old in 10 years.

What is depreiciation when one has no payments? Is not a 30% increase in taxes while you pocket the 70% in profits?
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Depreciation is not a function of truck payments. Depending on the depreciation schedule you select, the deduction for depreciation may last more years or less than the truck loan. The interest on the loan is a deductible expense but that is something different than depreciation.

Given our accelerated loan payoff schedule and depreciation schedule, the day will come when we have no tax deductions for interest or depreciation. At that point, we will continue to drive the truck and pay higher taxes. That will put more money IN OUR POCKETS than generating new tax deductions by buying a new truck.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Mus be our voodoo math there Phil. Nobody disagreeing? Sumpin wrong here. Lull before da storm. Maybe??
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I like the radioactive bugs!!!! Where can I buy some? Do they glow brighter than headlights? MMMM a real money saver!!! HEHEHE Layoutshooter
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
My grandfather owned his own tractor and trailer, and what he did was when he had the truck paid off he'd get a new trailer so he would still b getting tax deduction after the truck was paid for. Of course trailers don't cost near as much as trucks do.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
This is where it is very important to not let the tax tail wag the wealth-building dog. Here is a quote that explains it well. It is written by someone that promotes business tax decuctions and is favorably disposed toward them.

"When you add up your savings in federal, state, and self-employment taxes, you can see the true value of a business tax deduction. For example, if you're in the 25% federal income tax bracket, a business deduction can be worth as much as 25% (in federal taxes) + 13% (in self-employment taxes) + 6% (in state taxes). That adds up to a whopping 44% savings. (If you itemize your personal deductions, your actual tax savings from a business deduction is a bit less because it reduces your state income tax and therefore reduces the federal income tax savings from this itemized deduction.) If you buy a $1,000 computer for your business and you deduct the expense, you save about $430 in taxes. In effect, the government is paying for almost half of your business expenses. This is why it's so important to know all the business deductions you are entitled to take -- and to take advantage of every one."

(Source: Deduct It! Lower Your Small Business Taxes by Attorney Stephen Fishman)

There is no question that business tax deductions are beneficial IF you need the item you are buying. If not, it is foolish to spend money to get a tax deduction.

In the above example, if you already have a computer that does the job, you do not need to spend $1,000 to buy a new one. That means you will pay $430 in taxes. It also means you will keep $570 of after-tax income in your pocket.

That gives you two choices:

1. Spend $1,000 out of pocket for a computer you do not need and save $430 in taxes.

2. Save $1,000 by not buying a computer you do not need, keep using the computer you already have, pay $430 in taxes, and keep $570 in your pocket.

As I see it, the person that buys a computer he or she does not need is spending $570 (after the decuction is accounted for) to save $430 in taxes.

The person that continues using the good-enough computer he or she already has is keeping $1,000 in the bank, then paying $430 in taxes when the taxes are due, and retaining $570 in after-tax income.

There is another VERY, VERY important point to consider. The lower your make your taxable income by ramping up your tax deductible expenses, the lower the amount will be that you can deduct for contributions to qualified retirement plans like SEP-IRAs.

I would much rather generate tax deductions by maxing out retirement plan contributions that are based on higher income levels than by generating deductible business expenses by buying things I do not need.

Yes, there are the increased truck maintenance costs to consider if you are running an older truck instead of buying a new one every three years, as many owners do. But how much can the difference really be? New trucks have maintenance costs too. If you buy and run one truck for ten years, common sense tells you that you will spend less on trucks than someone that buys and runs three trucks (one at a time) in the same ten years.

On a new $200,000 truck, the FET tax alone costs almost as much as a whole new engine would. If you buy three new trucks in ten years, you are paying to the IRS the equivalent of three rebuilt engines; and you are doing it before you even drive your brand new trucks off the lot.

The $200,000 new truck with FET tax scenario does not apply to everyone. I'm simply sharing the above to provide food for thought. The business tax deduction information shared above does apply to every self-employed truck owner. Think twice before justifying your next equipment purchase on tax-deduction grounds alone.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
You all know we run a van and we vanners get a choice (1) Actually expense. (2) Mileage deduction last year 44 1/2 cents per mile.

We chose mileage. My thinking was this:
(1) Its a new van, other then PM hopefully the bigger repairs won't show up till 3rd or 4th year or about 400-500,000 miles. I do alot of my own PM to reduce costs. With some research Sprinters aren't as expensive as some people think to maintain.

(2) Fuel mileage. We get between 22-24 mpg's. So fuel costs are somewhat lower then a conventional van.

We typically drive about 130,000 miles/year x .445 = $57,850

Now add in Motels, Per diem about 300 days/yr. Tolls, and anything we put into truck example: TV, Microwave, carpets all those little things.
accountant fees, office expenses...

Theres nothing left to tax!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Phil,
With the complexities of the federal and some state tax systems, many business decisions are deduction/depreciation driven, which is a wrong approach.

But with that said, the complexity of your post, not knocking it at all, proved my point that it would better benefit people to have a complete change of the present system from a income derived tax system to a consumption derived tax system.

I don’t like to use the word ‘national sales tax’ but there is something to be said about the FairTax and its benefit to the truckers (expediters) at large. The idea of depreciation, deduction and any thing like that are gone and you pay for what you purchase on the new items and that is it. For many of us, this would be a huge savings because we deal with more used things than new things.

The biggest advantage to the FairTax is controlling your own money up front and keeping it working for you just like the original federal income tax system did. Instead of worrying what retirement plan you need to have to leverage you taxable income each year, you don’t have to worry about tax liabilities based on your actions and make investments as you need to. I know taking my wife’s income alone we will have gained nearly 22% more income just removing the deductions made by the federal government. And if the states follow it would be increase it my another 4% let alone the returns we receive from investments that are not taxed under the FairTax.

Now here is the disadvantage to it;

You would have the biggest shift in federal employment since the 1940’s. This would be eliminated and the people who worked there will be out of a job unless we can take some of them and put them on the border as border guards.

There would be a lot of accountants, tax attorneys and financial planners out of work. Without the federal tax system to support their profession, there is no need for them… well maybe financial planners could be turned into investment planners. Maybe accountants can also be useful for commercial operations but not tax attorneys. The point is there is no need for them in the new system. AND the biggest detractors to the FairTax are accountants, tax attorneys and financial planners saying it will not work because they will be out of work which is alright with me.

And well nothing beyond that, but it is simple – you keep your money that you earned through your labor and investments.

Before anyone posts anything against the FairTax, I ask them to read the book with an open mind, “The FairTax†by Neal Boortz and go to the website

http://www.fairtax.org

I know the book and the site does not answer every question and my concerns are over imports and how they are taxed at consumer levels but the book explains it pretty well.
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
KW Express
o/o till i die

I am at 1.1 million with a class 8 volvo of course its a 94 model
and its still running strong.I still am running it every day and I still send it into the mountains and she still keeps coming back best money I ever spent was on a used class 8 volvo thats for sure.havent had to rebuild yet but I did have to replace the front drive
at a cost of 4,500 away from home of course and I am thinking it had about 980,000 miles on it when it went bad.
I am not sure what caused it to fail at that point they checked the rear drive and said leave it alone.

I like my volvo shes by my side
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Lot of good points. For a single operator, it makes little sense to trade a truck every three years on a standard truck loan. In fact, I can't think of a tax advisor or attorney even advising it.
If it is a fleet owner, things can possibly change. Leases and different buying strategies become much different than the single truck operator.

On the fair or flat tax, I do see some advantages to using a consumption bases for taxation. The is a lot of industry from illegal immigrants to untaxed and unregulated businesses. Drugs and prostitution being one of many.
That is a huge tax pool that hasn't been tapped. But I will admit, there may be some shortcomings, but I am slowly educating myself to all of the ins and outs.












Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
Drugies and Hookers not paying Taxes? Come on now Dave is that really a true statement?

If they do not share in the system than who is?

Greg got a comment?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well there are three things that I think would be straight forward with the FairTax.

1 - it will capture taxes on goods and services across the board regardless who the person is. I mean that you have the drug dealers, the prostitutes and the invaders all being taxed, no one is exempt. For you modern liberals, the RICH will be taxed more - many don't pay a dime in taxes anyway so this will force them to pay but won't hurt them.

2 - the idea that this will hurt the poor is not true. If this get into law, we will see a monthly check (prebate - a term I hate but there is nothing else) issued to every family or citizen (it should be this way... period)that has been calculated to bring everyone equal to the poverty level. What this does is brings the person who is making $10K a year up to the same tax level as someone who is making $26K a year - make sense? The opponents of the FairTax say it is impossible to issue checks to everyone but we already do that with social security and SSI and other government programs to the tune of 52% of the population - so this would not be an issue.

3 - we get one more step away from Marxism by removing the progressive and punitive tax system we have. Now if we can do the same with schools, we would have a lot better country.
 
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