Largest Tax Hike in the History of the Tax Code is on its way

[OntarioVanMan]

Harper also sayes he will follow barrys lead on "cap and trade"...

what works for one country may not work for another..like apples and oranges...Canada went with nuclear power the US did not...go figure. One little accident and you guys went ape sh!t against nuclear for awhile...

 

[greg334]

Well OVM, the problem with the Bush's tax commission report is that it left out a lot of possible changes to the system and was done to appease some within the administration.

The fact is and always will be that corporate taxes are always paid at the consumer level, never paid by the corporation - EVER.

If we have high taxes, it effects the employment within our borders, our country's ability to attract companies to come here and stay but most importantly, the tying up of capital that can be used to further the company's work.

We may see this harsh reality of increases in taxes come January. In this niche market, we are on the very front lines in an industry that have customers who are worried about what the future brings. Because of a lot of the work we do is not "need to have it now" stuff, it falls into a different category than it would have in the past and now we may see the bottom actually drop out in this market because of the tightening up of discretionary funds.

Nevertheless, we have a lot of ambiguity caused by this administration and the last time our economy has faced this level of ambiguity it was back in 1931. Since that time, we have yet to come close to uncertainty at a level that is having industries rushing to get things done before the end of the year as we have right now.

 

[layoutshooter]

It was pretty bad in the '70's. I could not find a REAL job in the Detroit area to save my life. When I did I kept getting laid off. Then I went to work for the DOD. That was July 1976. I went to England where one of the first things I saw was an entire shift quit and go back to the States, not one of them had received a promotion in more than 3 years. Massive inflation back then too. They were working everyday and going broke. They were better off back home. Those were bad times too. Seems that a Dumb-O-Crat was in office at that time as well.

 

[greg334]

Layout, no the 70's was nothing at all to compare, even today, the 70's had some insecurity and ambiguity but nothing like today or in 1931.

Even though there was problems on the political front, there was still direction and still some sort of positive forward motion within the country.

In 1931, there wasn't a lot of positive faith in the country. People were sh*tting scared. They didn't know what would happen tomorrow, next week or next month, where food was going to come from and the leadership was trying to 'fix' things without knowing what the problems really were. We were in a deflationary period by that point that made no sense at that time. Hoover screwed it up by raising tariffs and starting a trade war while we were working among the cuts in consumer spending which put us on the fast track for the depression that slowed everythign down. It wasn't until 1931 that what optimism turned to fear. If Hoover let it go, and FDR didn't screw with everything, we would have been out of it by 1936.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

So who's sh!ting scared now? Not me, not my neighbour...you say consumer spending took a nosedive in the 30's and everything stopped...
so tell me with guys like you running around telling everyone just how bad it will be next year and trying to "scare" me and my neighbor into not spending...it could be said people like you are part of the problem and not the solution...
Just because you hate this admin you run around telling tales of woe....sure things are bad, no doubt and if you and bunch of other armchair critics persuade enough people to stop spending.
Well there ya have it...

 

[greg334]

Wait a frikn' minute there.

1 - I don't hate the administration, I think it is a poor choice for the country on one hand but on the other, it is needed.

2 - all of the signs from Obama point to his immaturity as a "leader" of our country, which to repeat we need right now.

3 - the doom and gloom isn't to scare people but to make them think. The real problem is that most of the country can't think for themselves let alone know what to do. Remember when this 'crisis' started, California increased their suicide hotline personal 4 fold to handle the influx of people on the edge and the trend that happens in California usually spreads across the country.

4 - we need to not just learn history but learn why and what happened. Today we live in a different world but actually the same one as they did in 1931. Look at your own situation, isn't there some frugality involved with your own life? The difference is that today things move so fast people don't think.

5 - I am not the only one saying this, read some of the comments form the economist who are fed up with the crap of being included in groups that "approved the stimulus". A few hail from a place near by me, and they seem to be rather scared that we are going for the gusto by drowning in debt.

6 - we are on the front lines of the front line in this business battle. We are the people who feel it first when things get cut back and what ever anyone else wants to say, we are expendable on many levels as a service. Just like the need for Pets.com, expediting will feel the downturn of the recession first. Excluding the cheerleaders of the purple crowd (they themselves have a identity crisis), most of the work WE get isn't package overflow but part of moving things peice meal and cheap.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I suppose having the natural mood of frugality serves me well.....I can read, understand, reason and adjust my situation as the need arises as things change....A lot can't or just not in a position to do so...I am in a somewhat situation of "income neutrality"

 

[chefdennis]

OVM wrote:

So who's sh!ting scared now? Not me, not my neighbour...you say consumer spending took a nosedive in the 30's and everything stopped...
so tell me with guys like you running around telling everyone just how bad it will be next year and trying to "scare" me and my neighbor into not spending...it could be said people like you are part of the problem and not the solution...
Just because you hate this admin you run around telling tales of woe....sure things are bad, no doubt and if you and bunch of other armchair critics persuade enough people to stop spending.
Well there ya have it...

LOL, now thats funny!!! ....Don't say anything bad about whats coming, it might "scare people"....

As for you reading for yourself...then i am sure you have read that people are saving more now then anytime in recent times...why, because they aren't spending and think they will need the money they are saving when the "SHTF".....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

OVM wrote:



LOL, now thats funny!!! ....Don't say anything bad about whats coming, it might "scare people"....

As for you reading for yourself...then i am sure you have read that people are saving more now then anytime in recent times...why, because they aren't spending and think they will need the money they are saving when the "SHTF".....

Then that is a good thing yes?

 

[chefdennis]

OVM wrote:

Then that is a good thing yes?

For the people that will have the cash, (which will be worth less then what it is as they save it) when the SHTF, but NOT for the ECONOMY that need COMSUMER SPENDING to keep any growth moving.....our economy is all BS right now..it is all based on the infusion of the Fed Gov pumping borrowed or printed money into it...the comsumers are not spending in any amount to sustain economic growth....

LOL, the banks aren't lendiing to consumers or small businesses so now you have "retailers" offering "loans" directly to consumers and small businesses to pump up their sales....but don't tell anyone. it might scare them...oh wait...its all over the news....but maybe they need to put mention it on "American Idol"..or the latest "reality show"...then the "masses" might see it....

oh and these "loans" are NOT backed by the banks like CC's offered my individual stores...they are backed by YOUR TAX DOLLARS.....


Retailers Launch Their Own Stimulus Packages

Published: Monday, 5 Jul 2010 | 7:27 AM ET
By: Stephanie Clifford
News Headlines

Tired of waiting for spending to rebound on its own, retailers are taking matters into their own hands. Stores like Sam’s Club, Target, Toys “R” Us, Staples and Office Depot are offering unconventional promotions meant not only to attract visitors to stores, but also to get them feeling profligate.

Wal-Mart's Sam’s Club is introducing a program in which it facilitates loans for shoppers of up to $25,000, backed by the Small Business Administration.

Finish reading the article at the link above....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

chef said

LOL, the banks aren't lendiing to consumers or small businesses so now you have "retailers" offering "loans" directly to consumers and small businesses to pump up their sales....but don't tell anyone. it might scare them

don't rub it in much eh?

BTW Walmart just got approved to be a bank in Canada where the US turned them down...

 

[Turtle]

Float the rumor, spread the scare...
The economy is shaky.
People begin to thing the economy is shaky.
People stop spending.
Pretty soon the economy is shaky.

Pollution, crime, drugs, poverty and despair, disease, hunger - we throw gobs of money at them and problems only get worse. Why? Because money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Float the rumor, spread the scare...
The economy is shaky.
People begin to thing the economy is shaky.
People stop spending.
Pretty soon the economy is shaky.

Pollution, crime, drugs, poverty and despair, disease, hunger - we throw gobs of money at them and problems only get worse. Why? Because money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it.

That was my original line of thought...people stop spending because they are told how bad it might get..we inadvertently make it even worse...

But then again we spend money on mostly imported goods what good does it do? We manufacture very little...

 

[greg334]

That was my original line of thought...people stop spending because they are told how bad it might get..we inadvertently make it even worse...

OVM,
As several NPR economist and commentators repeated this in their morning broadcasts today;

" ... it isn't the fact that the average consumer have stopped spending but a real fact that they don't have the money to spend ..."

AND also from NPR

" ... given the choices that consumers have today (pause) right now in this economy (pause) there is little to choose from, either food or an upside down mortgage. The Obama administration (remember this is a democrat talking) has moved to protect the big business and big banking interests while forgetting what is the root cause of the problems are. With real underlying issues being ignored, people are not working hence people do not have the money to spend ... "

AND from the BBC

"The United States workforce contacted by 652,000 in June, the largest contraction since the 1980's"

AND from The Times

" ... many are feeling like it is 1932 all over again ... the United States President is ignoring the warnings from all over the world about the possibilities of a double dip recession and with the warning from RBS' Jacques Cailloux about his "double-dip alert" for Europe. "The risk is rising fast. Absent an effective policy intervention to tackle the debt crisis on the periphery over coming months, the European economy will double dip in 2011," the signs are too obvious to ignore"

AND from the greatest economist who ever walked the earth;

"The economy is still in the gravitational pull of the Great Recession," said Robert Reich, former US labour secretary. "All the booster rockets for getting us beyond it are failing."

OVM read this part carefully.

Too many people don't watch enough news, let alone the financial channels to know that there are serious issues with the economy. Futhermore it is confirmed by the fact that most don't even know we are still in Iraq, a lot of people didn't see us being at war, so how would you expect them to change their behavior with they listen to the news until it happens to them.

 

[Turtle]

That was my original line of thought...people stop spending because they are told how bad it might get..we inadvertently make it even worse...

I don't think it's inadvertent at all. I think it's highly orchestrated by the people who get richer when things go bad, and then keep getting richer when things bounce back.

Float the rumor that things are going to be bad, bad, bad. Buy certain stocks, commodities and futures based on that premise, then feed the rumor. Pretty soon things are bad, bad, bad, and you're richer. Now you have even more money to invest in the recovery, at the very time when no one else has any, and you're sitting in the cat-bird seat to get richer again.

It a game. It's like those who try desperately to get you to buy gold, often based on fears of uncertainty and that gold is real and forever. Mainly, they try to get you to buy gold because they did, and if you do, too, then the price of gold will go up. When it does, they sell theirs, and the price drops, and you're left holding a bunch of gold that's not worth what you paid for it.

 

[Freightdawg]

Float the rumor, spread the scare...
The economy is shaky.
People begin to thing the economy is shaky.
People stop spending.
Pretty soon the economy is shaky.

I in no way profess to understand the economy. I thought it was going pretty well until the 2008 election campaigns. I was told by the Democrats how bad the economy was. To me, it looked like talking down the economy sure didn't help any. IMHO, they wanted a bad economy....and they got it!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

European banks gained on speculation stress tests will show narrower losses than some analysts estimated.

“I doubt we’ll have another global recession,” said Masayuki Kubota, a fund manager at Tokyo-based Daiwa SB Investments Ltd., which oversees $51 billion. “People are very sensitive to economic data from the U.S. If something good comes out, market sentiment easily rebounds. I’m buying sectors which were sold on excessive pessimism.”

Credit-default swaps to insure Greek bonds fell 18 basis points,

The ECB also kept its main rate at an all-time low of 1 percent, as forecast by all 55 economists surveyed by Bloomberg. Trichet said at a press conference in Frankfurt today that “indicators suggest that a strengthening in economic activity took place during the spring.” The main interest rate is “appropriate” and inflation expectations “remain firmly anchored,” he said.
The euro climbed for a third day against the yen as stocks rallied and European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet signaled the economic recovery is gathering momentum.


The 16-nation currency also rose to an eight-week high versus the dollar as Trichet said the second quarter in the euro region probably was better than the first quarter and that the need to intervene in government bond markets is “diminishing.” The yen fell against all 16 of its most-traded peers after the International Monetary Fund raised its global growth forecast.

 

[DaWhale]

From the Wall Street Journal


Central banks are pawning their gold to the Bank for International Settlements at a record rate, taking advantage of the precious metal's historically high value to raise cash.
A little-noticed data point at the back of a 216-page report released last week by the BIS shows the international agency has taken 349 metric tons of gold since December—allowing central banks to raise a record $14 billion.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The G20 told Obama to stop printing money! He ignored them instead he keeps the presses going...
The rest of the world will tire of this US crap and isolate us even tho we consume much and produce little....Only the great American ego can think the world really needs us...

 

[Turtle]

Venezuela arrests two for Tweeting bank rumors

Rumor:
The bank is shaky.
People begin to think the bank is shaky.
People withdraw their money from the bank.
Pretty soon the bank is shaky.