It's About Time.....(Oil Prices)

Brisco · May 25, 2011

U.S. sues big oil traders for 2008 manipulation

U.S. sues big oil traders for 2008 manipulation: Thomson Reuters Business News - MSN Money

While I am a strong Conservative, against more Government and more Government control, I fully support our Government in cracking down on oil speculators and traders, period.

Yes, I believe oil prices should be controlled just as States and Muncipalities control Electric and Water prices. Some may say that Oil is not a "surviving life" based commodity that we need to survive as say, water is, of which I respond to with BS.

Accept it or not, we need Oil just as bad as we need both water and electricity in our life to function on a normal basis. Oil is not Pepsi, Oil is not Planters Peanuts, Oil is not a Ceiling Fan, Oil is not a DVD movie (stuff I'm looking at right now that I CAN live without) Oil is a product that I CANNOT survive without to function normally day in and day out, period. And, to have these traders and speculators manipulate my way of life is.....absolutely ridiculous.

I hope the Government goes after many many many more here over time. Just HATE that it's under Obawas watch.

witness23 · May 25, 2011

Nice. I agree, its about time.

layoutshooter · May 25, 2011

IF they did something illegal, nail them. It won't have any real affect on prices. There is the rest of the world.

Controls will drive up prices, they always do.

Want lower prices? Produce more. Want off of all that Canadian oil we are buying? Drill at home. Produce diesel from coal.

WE have not been looking out for our own good for far too long. Nothing has changed.

chefdennis · May 25, 2011

The way to control the speculators and traders is as easy as letting the oil companies increase their ability to drill and recover more oil...when the supply isn't in question and they can't run up the price on the world market based on fear of one group controlling produvtion, then you wouldn't see these guys making the money they are....

BUT as Joe said, IF they did anthing illegal, nail them...but proving they did is a reach...as for regulating oil as water and electricity...forget it....no one forces any of us to lives we "choose"...their are plenty of people living "off grid"....

Pilgrim · May 25, 2011

This is probably just an exercise by the Obama administration (with an upcoming election year) to distract the public from their policies of denying our domestic oil companies the ability to harvest our own natural resources. If the big oil companies were able to drill for oil in ANWR, offshore coastlines and the shale deposits in the western regions we wouldn't have these prices. Obama campaigned on the concept of pushing energy prices up, bankrupting coal companies and promoting the cap and trade energy policies consistent with his socialist agenda. This is a continuation and his lackeys in the MSM will play the game with him. This action will probably die a natural death simultaneously with the end of the election season.

greg334 · May 25, 2011

Brisco said:
While I am a strong Conservative, against more Government and more Government control, I fully support our Government in cracking down on oil speculators and traders, period.

OK, I guess you don't see the real problem which isn't just the speculators in the US but in the world who have been taking risks in nailing down profits.

Brisco said:
Yes, I believe oil prices should be controlled just as States and Muncipalities control Electric and Water prices. Some may say that Oil is not a "surviving life" based commodity that we need to survive as say, water is, of which I respond to with BS.

I do believe that the conservatives in our brave new world have missed something important (Diva can point it out since she is reading "the Forgotten Man") but I will give you a hint - the electric and water companies actually worked better without government involvement.

With that said, so far most of the conservatives I have talked to have said the same thing which seems to go against their mantra - less government. Which makes it interesting that until it affects them with their money, many many of them preach well about small government, etc. ...

Brisco said:
Accept it or not, we need Oil just as bad as we need both water and electricity in our life to function on a normal basis. Oil is not Pepsi, Oil is not Planters Peanuts, Oil is not a Ceiling Fan, Oil is not a DVD movie (stuff I'm looking at right now that I CAN live without) Oil is a product that I CANNOT survive without to function normally day in and day out, period. And, to have these traders and speculators manipulate my way of life is.....absolutely ridiculous.

Let the free market actually work and stop the government involvement into our energy needs. You may be surprised at the results.

Brisco said:
I hope the Government goes after many many many more here over time. Just HATE that it's under Obawas watch.

Yep let them go after the institutional buyers who buy up blocks of stock and then hold it or sometimes sell it short to make a profit.

chefdennis said:
The way to control the speculators and traders is as easy as letting the oil companies increase their ability to drill and recover more oil...when the supply isn't in question and they can't run up the price on the world market based on fear of one group controlling produvtion, then you wouldn't see these guys making the money they are....

I will repeat this so maybe a few will get it;

Oil is traded on an open world market, not a limited US market. Because of that fact, our limitation to controlling supply to make a significant impact will exist in the minds of those who think government intervention is the best thing.

Having the US companies drill and produce more crude may be one of those things that will lower the price a bit but overall the big problem is and will always be OPEC because they can control the flow of oil in the supply chain and in doing so by cutting production prices will rise. With the increase demand world wide, others who are involved in production, they may want to cash in on it and follow what OPEC does. OUR internal production won't fulfill our needs, even if we drill and we have doubled our production within 10 years, we will have to still depend on OPEC and SA oil.

layoutshooter · May 26, 2011

Canada and Mexico are not members of OPEC. They sell at market price. So do our internal companies.

Production is the key. We have plenty of oil out there. Oil shale would be the last thing I went after. The main thing I would due, besides drilling, is to use coal for diesel. It is a well known process. It is more than possible to make that diesel as clean burning or cleaner than what we have now. It is profitable at around $60 per barrel. We have coal coming out of ears.

ANWR can be tapped but we have so much oil closer that we can get at. Start up there now. Had we done that 30 years ago we would not be as bad off as we are.

Go after it all.

chefdennis · May 26, 2011

Even with Opec and yes oil is traded on the world market, I really don't think that is a mystery to anyone, when you have adequate supply of the product, it stripes away a large portion of any "speculation" of the market....

greg334 · May 26, 2011

layoutshooter said:
Canada and Mexico are not members of OPEC. They sell at market price. So do our internal companies.

True but OPEC is the one factor where they can set production levels and effect the market either way.

layoutshooter said:
Production is the key. We have plenty of oil out there. Oil shale would be the last thing I went after. The main thing I would due, besides drilling, is to use coal for diesel. It is a well known process. It is more than possible to make that diesel as clean burning or cleaner than what we have now. It is profitable at around $60 per barrel. We have coal coming out of ears.

OK, that supposed to make sense but here is the thing - we have plenty on the supply side right now so why is it so high?

Production isn't an issue at this moment because if it was, we would be seeing other problems with other uses of oil but we don't.

However, like the stock market, the oil market is driven by emotion and nothing more.

layoutshooter said:
ANWR can be tapped but we have so much oil closer that we can get at. Start up there now. Had we done that 30 years ago we would not be as bad off as we are.

So think carefully about what this means.

OK thought about it?

What if we do drill, we are looking at 8 years of exploration to find a viable source but before we get one drop of oil the emotion of the market will see we are moving toward producing without producing and the market may drop or on the other hand it may caused the market to go up a lot. THIS is the free market at work, and the government can't control it and should never try to control it.

chefdennis said:
Even with Opec and yes oil is traded on the world market, I really don't think that is a mystery to anyone, when you have adequate supply of the product, it stripes away a large portion of any "speculation" of the market....

It is a mystery to a lot of people who think that oil company profits are the reason we have high prices or that the big bad Exxon is hording oil to make the price go up. Many are ignorant to the real causes and facts of these high prices, and many more are plain stupid with their assumptions and opinions that government can solve the problem of the free market by regulating something (NOT SAYING ANYONE HERE).

Overall the speculation drives a lot more than higher prices, it can keep prices lower too. The problem with this investigation and alleged manipulation is that the government really doesn't have a case, the idea that 4.7M bbls of oil can cause the market to change in such a horrible way is dumb and they, the government should stay out of it and do more for us by lowering or suspending the 24 cent a gallon federal tax and forcing the states to spend the money on roads and not parks or other state projects.

layoutshooter · May 26, 2011

"What if we do drill, we are looking at 8 years of exploration to find a viable source but before we get one drop of oil the emotion of the market will see we are moving toward producing without producing and the market may drop or on the other hand it may caused the market to go up a lot. THIS is the free market at work, and the government can't control it and should never try to control it. "

Not totally correct. There have already been some areas, mainly offshore, that have been proven. They are being held up only by the permit process.

We KNOW of proven field inland in the lower 48 we could hit quickly. Had we started on some of this 30 years ago, then even using your estimate, those fields would have been producing for the last 22 years.

Waiting just pushes it back more.

Flood the market. That will lower the price.

I still say we need to move 100% of our diesel production from oil to a coal base. That would, rather quickly, create a drastic reduction in our oil imports.

OR:

Sit back, do nothing, file a few law suits and complain.

witness23 · May 26, 2011

layoutshooter said:
Go after it all.

Even in our state owned parks and forests?

link: House passes bill to drill in parks | The Columbus Dispatch

House passes bill to drill in parks
Thursday, May 26, 2011 03:10 AM
By Jim Siegel

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

With Ohio facing $500 million in backlogged capital projects at its state parks and gas prices still flirting with $4 a gallon, House Republicans say now is the time to allow oil and gas drilling in parks and other state-owned land.

After a three-hour debate, the House voted 54-41 yesterday for a bill that would create an Oil and Gas Leasing Commission to oversee the leasing of state-owned land for oil and gas drilling.

"It will not solve Ohio's problems or energy-price problems, but it is a component we cannot ignore," said Rep. John Adams, R-Sidney, the bill sponsor.

Republicans said House Bill 133 would create jobs and help lower energy prices. Oil and gas drillers are particularly interested in southeastern Ohio and Salt Fork State Park.

"If this gas boom takes off like we understand it is, there aren't going to be enough hotels. There aren't going to be enough houses. There aren't going to be enough restaurants to handle all of the people who are coming into this state," said Rep. Matt Huffman, R-Lima.

Two Republicans joined all Democrats in voting against the bill. Franklin County lawmakers broke along party lines.

Democrats argued that with 99.5 percent of Ohio already available for drilling, the bill is unnecessary. They also questioned the economic benefits, and argued it would cause significant damage to state parks, hurt tourism and harm the economy.

"We're not against drilling. We're against drilling in parks," said Rep. Robert F. Hagan, D-Youngstown, who went on to question whether Republicans were on drugs.

Democrats also suggested Republicans would face voter backlash over the bill in next year's elections. In response, Speaker William G. Batchelder, R-Medina, pointed to gas prices.

"I would say that causes people to have a different view than they might have at $2.50," he said.

Batchelder said the ongoing revenue stream for capital projects at Ohio parks is vital. "When you look at them, you can see it," he said of the lack of upkeep. "I think six members used the phrase 'pristine parks.' I don't know where they're going. I have not seen those."

State revenue estimates from oil and gas royalties range from a few hundred thousand dollars to about $9million, depending on factors such as the level of oil and gas production and market prices, according to the nonpartisan Legislative Service Commission.

The bill divides state land into four classes, which, Adams said, will deal with issues related to federal encumbrances or deed restrictions. Energy companies would have the greatest access to land in which the state clearly owns all the development rights.

Ohio owns the mineral rights to 34,590 acres in state parks, less than one-third of the land.

Republicans added an amendment yesterday that would ban drilling on state nature preserves, which Jack Shaner of the Ohio Environmental Council called a positive step. But he strongly opposes the bill.

"Ohio has always promised that its parks would remain a natural park, not an industrial park," he said, adding that the new leasing commission would be "too industry-cozy." He said the director of the Ohio Department of Natural Resources should have the final say on whether drilling is allowed in state parks.

Tracy Sabetta of the National Wildlife Federation of Ohio said she is concerned that the bill does not explicitly exempt Lake Erie from drilling. While a federal ban remains in place, there are efforts to repeal it, she said.

Rep. Dave Hall, R-Killbuck, said the bill essentially bans Lake Erie from drilling because of the way it is classified.

Gov. John Kasich's proposed state budget also would open state parks to drilling, but it left the Ohio Department of Natural Resources in control of the leasing process.

Both Hall and Batchelder said they prefer the House drilling language to what is in the budget. Laura Jones, spokeswoman for the Ohio Department of Natural Resources, said the office is "pleased with how our concerns (with the bill) have been addressed."

"It's very positive that the landholding agency is the entity entering into the lease as opposed to the commission," she said.

witness23 · May 26, 2011

This is what I don't understand?

From the article:

Democrats argued that with 99.5 percent of Ohio already available for drilling, the bill is unnecessary. They also questioned the economic benefits, and argued it would cause significant damage to state parks, hurt tourism and harm the economy.

And the Republicans trying to sell this bill by saying:

From the article:

Republicans said House Bill 133 would create jobs and help lower energy prices.

These reserves will be gobbled up by large oil and gas companies then traded on the open market and will have no effect on gas prices. And in four years it will all be gone. Drill if you think its necessary, just leave the parks and forests that make up about 1%of Ohio lands alone.

chefdennis · May 26, 2011

witness wrote:

Even in our state owned parks and forests?

Yeap, anywhere they can legally get to it...and if it is on land owned by the people (state, local, county, or fed) the oil company pays the proper government the same as they would for the leases as they do on privately owned land....

layoutshooter · May 26, 2011

witness23 said:
Even in our state owned parks and forests?

link: House passes bill to drill in parks | The Columbus Dispatch

House passes bill to drill in parks
Thursday, May 26, 2011 03:10 AM
By Jim Siegel

THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

PA has been drilling for gas and oil on state forest and state game land my entire life. No real adverse affects.

The State has made a TON of money. Too bad that they keep wasting it.

It is not that difficult to recover the resources without much interference to nature and man.

Drill it.

Don't like Ohio doing that? Don't live in Ohio. Go to CA and spend even MORE on fuel.

witness23 · May 26, 2011

layoutshooter said:
Don't like Ohio doing that? Don't live in Ohio. Go to CA and spend even MORE on fuel.

Dude, seriously, read my comments a little more closely. Here, I'll help you:

Originally Posted by Witness23
Drill if you think its necessary, just leave the parks and forests that make up about 1%of Ohio lands alone.

What's even more unbelievably stupid about your comment is that you rail against the United States Government,
DuMbaCraTS, ReBumLiCAns, our youth, liberals, the I.R.S., social security, taxes, unions, our President, the border, health care, medicare, medicaid and on and on and on.....it never ends.

I'll ask you the same question. Don't like the United States doing that? Don't live in the United States.

For the love of God, I'll say it again so there's no mistake where I am coming from. Go ahead and drill, just leave state owned parks and forests out of the bill!

Turtle · May 27, 2011

Naaaaa, that's not dragging in something from outside the thread and using it to attack the individual in a confrontational manner at all. Newp, no ulterior motives at work here. <snort>

Doggie Daddy · May 27, 2011

Turtle said:
Naaaaa, that's not dragging in something from outside the thread and using it to attack the individual in a confrontational manner at all. Newp, no ulterior motives at work here. <snort>

den dew yer doody and moderate.