Is Obama a muslim?

[layoutshooter]

If you were at home Joe, You shoulda Let me know and I would Have given you a Hand!

I never thought of that. With my back it would have been nice to just have a hand moving the ladder. Oh well, it is done now. Thanks.

 

[cheri1122]

Thanks for the offer, Cheri. We got them on in about 1.5 hours. There is more in the truck section on it. We hope to be in service tomorrow. Where are you that you could have helped?

Am in the jelly state [ducking the 'fighting Kentuckians here, lol], waiting to pickup later, delivering in Detroit on Monday.
And you didn't answer the question I asked - do you contend that the US intelligence agencies NEVER break the law?

 

[layoutshooter]

Am in the jelly state [ducking the 'fighting Kentuckians here, lol], waiting to pickup later, delivering in Detroit on Monday.
And you didn't answer the question I asked - do you contend that the US intelligence agencies NEVER break the law?

Sorry to hear that you are going to be in Detroit, hope you make it out alive!!

Missed that question. I never said that they NEVER break U.S. laws, I said it is rare. The agencies are tightly controlled by the congress. They take their orders from the Commander in Chief. ALL priorities, targets (human or other wise depending on the mission of the agency) are set by congress, overseen by congress, directed by congress and the president. During my 20 years the vast majority of the problems I saw came from the top down.

To be sure. On occasion an agent will "go rouge" That is not the norm. The norm is every day people, you know, two arms, two legs, just like you and me, get up and go to work. They have families, just like us. They go home when their shift/day is done. They have to pass round after round of criminal back ground checks, polygraphs, physc testing, economic checks etc etc etc. Most people would be offended by some of the questions asked in those sessions. I was. I understood but ended up telling a shrink off one time during my initial tests.

He as, as is allowed, if I was satisfied with my "sex life" with my wife. I answered. Then he asked me to describe our sex life. I politely told him that it was none of his "darn" business and I was not about to help him with his "jollies" . That ended that interview.

It is very difficult to get through all the checks. Far more people wash out than make it. To be sure, the odd wacko gets through from time to time. NO system is 100% perfect. I will tell you one thing for sure. IF our politicians went through the same checks we would be in FAR better shape than we are today.

 

[Turtle]

"Which, of course, turned out to not have a scintilla of truth to it at all."

How sure of that are you Turtle?

Quite sure. There was, absolutely, without question, a lone gunman, as ballistics have proven, and not "at LEAST two other gunman" as you claimed to have gotten from an unimpeachable source (unless by "at LEAST two other gunman" you are now wanting to include the non-military police officers who shot back at him). Nor is the notion of multiple gunmen being covered up, as also claimed from an unimpeachable source.

Not only were there no other shooters, as concluded by the investigation and just a snotload of witnesses that the government has no control over, but he acted alone with no conspiracy with anyone. If there was any evidence at all that he did not act alone, then he could not be charged and tried in a military court, which is where he will be tried. (and please don't way that, too, is part of the cover up)

Is the investigation over?

No. The bulk of it is, the DOD's part of it has been concluded, but the FBI investigation will continue long after the trial, since he had contact with Anwar al-Awlaki and radical Islam and terrorist connections are the bread and butter of the FBI and Homeland Security.

Are you 100% positive that the press you read this in is presenting the ENTIRE picture? Do they ever?

I am 100% positive that they do not present the entire picture. However, The Boston Globe presented a pretty clear one when they obtained the internal, unedited, findings of the DOD investigation which showed the military was predictably trying to cover their own butt on some issues, but that showed no cover up at all on the substantial facts of the case.

Would you be willing to bet your life on that? I would not.

Bet my life that the press rarely, if ever, presents the entire picture of a story? Perhaps, but there are few things that I would be willing to bet my life over.

There were many things NOT reported by the press, as always. Some to protect the "screw ups" that allowed this to occur. Some to protect investigators. There was more than one agency involved, there is a LOT of "CYA" going on as well.

That much is true. The DOD, DOJ, FBI and Texas Rangers and local Kileen law enforcement were all involved. The DOD released a report of their internal investigation of what happened and how it happened (a different report than the criminal investigation, although a part of it) that got hammered by everyone from Texas Congressman John Carter to former Secretary of the Navy John Lehman. The report concluded that the military is ill equipped to handle internal threats of this nature, yet it failed completely to mention Hasan's motivations, including his multiple contacts with Anwar al-Awlaki nor his radicalization of Islam. This was defended by the leaders of the investigation, former Secretary of the Army Togo West and retired Admiral Vernon Clark, essentially, because of political correctness, saying their "concern is with actions and effects, not necessarily with motivations." What a crock. This was a 5W report that was to be used expressly to deal with and prevent future attacks, yet the motivations of radical Islam was not mentioned.

You might want to check the "stockade records" at Ft. Bragg. I wish we had access to those. Lot's of interesting people locked up there. Army MP prison guards know FAR more that news reporters do.

I suppose now that we're going to hear that the two or more additional gunmen are being held at Ft Bragg.

As to these leaks. It would NOT surprise me if there were more than that one private involved. No proof. I only base that on the shear number of documents leaked. It would have taken me YEARS to remove that many documents when I was there. Granted it MAY be a bit easier to get them out now with DVD's etc. but that is a LOT of stuff.

Yes, tens of thousands of documents can be stored on a single disc, so he could have easily acted alone. I don't know if he had help from others within the military, but he definitely had help from at least one other person outside the military. That much is without question. The military has known about this kid since at least January. And someone from outside the military set his up with encryption software that would send the data, small bits of it at a time, innocuously, to destinations outside the military, presumably directly to Wikileaks.

I do wonder one thing. Just how much of the "STUFF" that private removed was "Planted" to allow for "proof" that he was stealing them? That has been done in the past to help catch spies, traitors etc. Marked documents etc.

Could be a lot or a little. Considering they knew about him and let his do this anyway, it's hard to say.

"Naturally, the deity will say, "You must believe, for I am all-knowing and know things which you cannot know. My claims are not falsifiable, therefor, ergo, they are true, despite they being unprovable. And most importantly, don't even try. Just believe."

Uncalled for.

Perhaps. But I just call 'em as I see 'em.

You can accept what I say or not. I try not to make fun of you when you put out some of the foolish garbage you do. I prefer just to make fun of the garbage.

Ah, but the difference is, I back up my garbage with facts rather than tell people to believe it just because I say so, to believe me on faith about something that is unverifiable or disprovable. That's deity-speak.

You, and I, can both be wrong. I have been and so have you. Even RLENT will admit to being wrong from time to time No need for personal stuff, is there? Takes a lot of the fun out of arguing and "chain rattling".

I'm often wrong. Just not about this one.

 

[cheri1122]

Sorry to hear that you are going to be in Detroit, hope you make it out alive!!


Missed that question. I never said that they NEVER break U.S. laws, I said it is rare.

Most killers have done it only rarely, too.

 

[layoutshooter]

Sorry to hear that you are going to be in Detroit, hope you make it out alive!!


Missed that question. I never said that they NEVER break U.S. laws, I said it is rare.

Most killers have done it only rarely, too.

What laws do you think are being broken? Do you expect perfection from a large group of people? What are you getting at?

 

[layoutshooter]

Quite sure. There was, absolutely, without question, a lone gunman, as ballistics have proven, and not "at LEAST two other gunman" as you claimed to have gotten from an unimpeachable source (unless by "at LEAST two other gunman" you are now wanting to include the non-military police officers who shot back at him). Nor is the notion of multiple gunmen being covered up, as also claimed from an unimpeachable source.

Not only were there no other shooters, as concluded by the investigation and just a snotload of witnesses that the government has no control over, but he acted alone with no conspiracy with anyone. If there was any evidence at all that he did not act alone, then he could not be charged and tried in a military court, which is where he will be tried. (and please don't way that, too, is part of the cover up)

No. The bulk of it is, the DOD's part of it has been concluded, but the FBI investigation will continue long after the trial, since he had contact with Anwar al-Awlaki and radical Islam and terrorist connections are the bread and butter of the FBI and Homeland Security.

I am 100% positive that they do not present the entire picture. However, The Boston Globe presented a pretty clear one when they obtained the internal, unedited, findings of the DOD investigation which showed the military was predictably trying to cover their own butt on some issues, but that showed no cover up at all on the substantial facts of the case.

Bet my life that the press rarely, if ever, presents the entire picture of a story? Perhaps, but there are few things that I would be willing to bet my life over.

That much is true. The DOD, DOJ, FBI and Texas Rangers and local Kileen law enforcement were all involved. The DOD released a report of their internal investigation of what happened and how it happened (a different report than the criminal investigation, although a part of it) that got hammered by everyone from Texas Congressman John Carter to former Secretary of the Navy John Lehman. The report concluded that the military is ill equipped to handle internal threats of this nature, yet it failed completely to mention Hasan's motivations, including his multiple contacts with Anwar al-Awlaki nor his radicalization of Islam. This was defended by the leaders of the investigation, former Secretary of the Army Togo West and retired Admiral Vernon Clark, essentially, because of political correctness, saying their "concern is with actions and effects, not necessarily with motivations." What a crock. This was a 5W report that was to be used expressly to deal with and prevent future attacks, yet the motivations of radical Islam was not mentioned.

I suppose now that we're going to hear that the two or more additional gunmen are being held at Ft Bragg.

Yes, tens of thousands of documents can be stored on a single disc, so he could have easily acted alone. I don't know if he had help from others within the military, but he definitely had help from at least one other person outside the military. That much is without question. The military has known about this kid since at least January. And someone from outside the military set his up with encryption software that would send the data, small bits of it at a time, innocuously, to destinations outside the military, presumably directly to Wikileaks.

Could be a lot or a little. Considering they knew about him and let his do this anyway, it's hard to say.

Perhaps. But I just call 'em as I see 'em.

Ah, but the difference is, I back up my garbage with facts rather than tell people to believe it just because I say so, to believe me on faith about something that is unverifiable or disprovable. That's deity-speak.

I'm often wrong. Just not about this one.

Actually Turtle one of the "other two" was released long ago. He was only held for a few days, cleared and released. One is still at Bragg, not as as shooter as that has been answered but being held for "aiding" the shooter. That part of the investigation is still on going.

If you remember back when it first happened, there were even news reports of 3 or more gunmen. Those were based on reports from many there. That is why the "others" were picked up.

As to the cover ups, what group or who issued the orders NOT to investigate Muslims to the same degree that everyone else is? HINT: It was not me.

Now, I am going to check on my dad, he fell the other day. I get to see my nephew, brothers too. Later DUDE!!

 

[cheri1122]

What laws do you think are being broken?
Don't have specifics at my fingertips, but there's no lack of evidence that various intelligence agencies have [and continue to] operated outside US law. Given the covert and classified designations that prohibit real oversight, it would be extremely naive to think otherwise.
Do you expect perfection from a large group of people?
What I expect from any group of people, large or small, is adherence to the law, coupled with appropriate measures to detect and punish lawbreakers.
What are you getting at?

Just pointing out that your vehement rejection of anything said or done by anyone who broke the law [ie: whistleblowers] is not applied to those in the US intelligence communities.
"Sauce for the goose, etc" is all I'm sayin....

 

[Turtle]

Actually Turtle one of the "other two" was released long ago. He was only held for a few days, cleared and released.

What's his name? Regardless, if he was cleared and released, it doesn't seem likely that he was one of the "at LEAST two other gunman" that the unimpeachable source let on.

One is still at Bragg,

What's his name?

...not as as shooter as that has been answered but being held for "aiding" the shooter. That part of the investigation is still on going.

Ah, OK, so not another shooter. Seems to me a lot of those. So where are these "at LEAST two other gunman" nowadays?

If you remember back when it first happened, there were even news reports of 3 or more gunmen. Those were based on reports from many there. That is why the "others" were picked up.

Actually, those reports came from a single Twit who was Tweeting his аss off, and The Press, in fine Edward R Morrow tradition, picked up on it and reported it. At least to their credit, they reported the source, but later in the day when it was not able to be confirmed, and in fact reports to the contrary from other eye witness were being reported, they dropped the 3 or more gunmen angle. It would appear to a skeptical sort of fellow that your unimpeachable source was that same lone Twit, since nothing that even hints at multiple gunmen has ever come out from anyone, including those who the government has no control over.

As to the cover ups, what group or who issued the orders NOT to investigate Muslims to the same degree that everyone else is? HINT: It was not me.

That comes from Pentagon officials and military brass from all over the place, out of fear of being accused of profiling. It's the insanity of political correctness.

Now, I am going to check on my dad, he fell the other day. I get to see my nephew, brothers too. Later DUDE!!

Sorry to hear about your dad. Hope he makes a quick and full recovery.