Insurance Companies purchase of Police Radar guns.

ron

Expert Expediter
It has been reveled that Geico insurance company has paid the Radar companies $2 mil for Police radar guns for the police depts. It was in their information to the Geico's shareholder's finacial statements. Allstate Insurance was next for the amount contributated. Progressive Insurance was third in contrubations . Does that sound like a "conflict of intrest"? The Insurance companies are using the police to raise your rates. The officer will tell you it's YOUR fault you got the ticket. Yea Right !
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Conflict of interest? Not hardly. It is in the best interest of vehicle insurance companies to not have to insure unsafe drivers. Drivers who exceed the speed limit are a greater risk, and therefore should have to pay higher premiums for their coverage. In addition, having more radar units out there causes many motorists to slow down, which reduces the number of accidents and thus claims for insurance companies.

In the relatively distance past, I have received several citations for speeding. I was speeding each and every time. Since I stopped speeding, I haven't gotten a single speeding ticket. Who's fault is that?
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Absolutely "your" fault if "you" (as in everyone not anyone specific) get a ticket unless somehow those are magic radar guns that pull the right pedal toward the floor while measuring speed.
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
It has been reveled that Geico insurance company has paid the Radar companies $2 mil for Police radar guns for the police depts. It was in their information to the Geico's shareholder's finacial statements. Allstate Insurance was next for the amount contributated. Progressive Insurance was third in contrubations . Does that sound like a "conflict of intrest"? The Insurance companies are using the police to raise your rates. The officer will tell you it's YOUR fault you got the ticket. Yea Right !

So What? Nothing Wrong with That!
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't see a problem....be legal...don't speed..

PoorBoy you defending potential lawbreakers now?
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
I don't see a problem....be legal...don't speed..

PoorBoy you defending potential lawbreakers now?

No Sir, I am Not! My Comment was referring to the Buying of the Radar Guns By Insurance Companies! Like I said, So What! Nothing wrong with that, meaning that the Insurance Companies have That Right to do so if they want to. The More Radar Guns on the Street the Safer the Highways will be! Maybe I Should Have Been more Clear on my Original post. :D
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
No Sir, I am Not! My Comment was referring to the Buying of the Radar Guns By Insurance Companies! Like I said, So What! Nothing wrong with that, meaning that the Insurance Companies have That Right to do so if they want to. The More Radar Guns on the Street the Safer the Highways will be! Maybe I Should Have Been more Clear on my Original post. :D

That is what I thought...now lets donate some rolls of barbed wire to the border service to build that fence down south!!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
When this is going on, Michigan is having fight on two sides of the speed issue.

One fight is over a law passed a few years back which is meant to study and then adjust the speed limits on all the roads except residential roads, which some claim the speed limit is set way too low. Already people have gotten out of tickets because they proved that the city/county didn't do the required speed study and didn't adjust the speed limit. We already have an issue with a lack of enforcement, so with higher speeds our insurance goes up.

And now there is a fight to end speed traps and define where the cops can use radar and enforce the speed limit.

This is what you get when you have a part time state with a full time legislator.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Michigan, the State Police, anyway, was part of a major study about posted speed limits. New Jersey was also a part of it, and did their own independent study, as well. Other states were involved. I read a couple of in-depth reports of the study that mostly dealt with something called the "eight-fifth percentile".

Michigan had several sections of roads where speed limits were posted that many thought were too low. Aggressive Driving citations were many and often, as were speeding tickets. The accident rate was higher than the state average. They raised the speed limit and Aggressive Driving tickets went to zero and accidents nearly disappeared.

Michigan, and the studies in general, confirmed what some people already suspected, that 85% of drivers on the road are driving at the most safe and prudent speed, irrespective of what the actual posted speed limit is. Sometimes it's slower than the posted limit, sometimes it's faster, but in almost all cases it's that eight-five who are doing it right, and 15% who are a danger to everyone else, most of whom are driving too fast, but a few who are driving too slow.

You know those dynamic speed limits you see on the Jersey Turnpike? Those are a direct result of the eighty-fifth percentile. With few exceptions, those speeds reflect the current eighty-fifth percentile on the road, and dynamically change as traffic flows increase or decrease. Pretty interesting.

Even though Michigan was a major player in the studies, many in Michigan refuse to yield to the results of the study and want to have artificially low speed limits on many roads, ostensibly for safety, but in reality it's just a matter of revenue and brute control of others.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I don't have an issue with this at all....yeap i speed from time to time, and yeap i have gotten my share of tickets, each time i got 1 i was speeding.....

To carry the point in a bit of a different angle...a large Chevrolet dealership in my area buys the local police dept their handguns (pays for the newest available for each officer) ...think he i trying to sell cars and trucks to those officers!?!?:D
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
So Turtle, I understand the study part, but it doesn't matter because it is stupid in some cases only to rely on ticket/accident and traffic flow data alone to determine the speed of a road.

With the declining enforcement, I can see why tickets are declining but nevertheless in cases where roads are within city limits and people live there, it should be the people, not the state or county to determine the speed of the road.

It amazes me that we have two roads that cut through downtowns that now have 50 mph. One is a five lane road with a shopping/residential area and a lot of slow traffic but the state has threaten the city when the residents demanded it to return to 30 mph. Another one mile stretch of road has two elementary schools and a church and senior complex on it with a lot of after school activities going on. They already had a couple kids get hit by cars and a few serious accidents but the county said their hands are tied to change it back to 35 mph which was the limit for 80 years.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
now lets donate some rolls of barbed wire to the border service to build that fence down south!!

How about some mines and machine guns too. Make it a no man's land of 50 yards or so that nobody will attempt to cross.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
You start picking off Mexicans in the desert like ducks in a shooting gallery, and that will, absolutely, put a serious dent in illegal border crossings. The Berlin Wall proved that.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
You know, the problem isn't them buying radar guns. One of the insurance companies had an ad campaign that showed cops pulling people over and asking for their proof of insurance. The voiceover or subtext said something to the effect of the cops being their best salesmen. And I thought, "Exactly!" They got their lobbyists to get the state legislatures to make the public buy their product. Wish I could get the legislature to make customers ship on my van.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well, not really. When automobiles first arrived, the tort notion of fault was so deeply embedded in our legal system around 1900, it was taken for granted that the origins of automobile law would rest on a fault system. When an accident occurred, fault would be determined, and then liability assessed. However, since there were irresponsible drivers, meaning drivers who don't have the financial means to make whole a person whose property or body they might injure through an automobile accident, there was no way of assuring that even though fault was assessed that the victim of an automobile accident would be able to collect from the tortfeasor. This led to the almost simultaneous creation in CT and MA of the first financial responsibility and compulsory insurance laws, respectively.

Until the 1970's, most states had "financial responsibility" laws rather than compulsory auto insurance. Connecticut started the thing in the mid-1920's by its requirement that an owner of a vehicle involved in an accident causing death or personal injury, or property damages in excess of $100, had to then prove financial responsibility to satisfy any claim for damages, by reason of personal injury, to, or death of, any person, of at least $10,000. The CT statute had four ways by which a person could demonstrate the required level of "financial responsibility" (1) having liability insurance to the required amount, (2) posting a bond when required, (3) depositing cash, or (4) depositing stocks or bonds sufficient to cover the amount of the judgment. Suspension of license was the penalty for failure to comply.

Demand for proof of financial responsibility was usually made only after an aggrieved party filed a complaint. So, automobile insurance both optional and retroactive. In effect, everyone got a Get out of Jail Free card, where after the first accident the State would clamp down on them. But even at that, unless the first accident resulted in a complaint getting filed, that wasn't enough to invoke the law that you had to provide financial responsibility. Over the next 50 odd years most other states passed the same type of financial responsibility laws.

At the same time CT passed its financial responsibility laws (couple of years later, actually), Massachusetts went one step further and made liability insurance compulsory when registering the automobile. For 25 years it was the only state to have such a law. Massachusetts was a very pro-consumer state, while Connecticut was a very pro-insurance state (being the home of the insurance industry), so one would think that "compulsory" and merely "financially responsible" would have occurred in the opposite manner in each other's state. But the insurance companies fought compulsory insurance, because with compulsory insurance they had to cover everybody, good drivers and morons alike.

With the 50's came the cars of the 50's and all the romance that came with it, both in and of the cars, and with times being good and everyone having one, the number of cars on the roads exploded, and so did miles driven. Accidents and injuries became more more common as well as more expensive, and more and more people were unable to show financial responsibility. A couple of states enacted compulsory insurance in the late 50's, and then in the 60's and 70's most states followed suit, each and every one of them over the objections of auto insurers. Only 2 or 3 states currently do not have compulsory insurance. New Hampshire doesn't, and I don't think Wisconsin requires it, yet. In Virginia you don't have to purchase liability insurance, but if you don't then you have to pay a $500 annual fee to the state.

The insurance companies would much rather be able to pick and choose who they want to cover, and be able to deny someone liability coverage at their whim, rather than be forced to cover anyone and everyone. They can jack up your premiums of you're high risk, but eliminating that high risk is something they'd much rather do.
 

ron

Expert Expediter
I agree that you shouldn't speed. The point I was trying to make is the pay-offs under the table out the the sight of the public. If we tried to "bribe" a cop...we would be looking at jail time,but the insurance companies can "pay the police under the table" to make the insurance companies more profit...but let's call it "purchasing radar guns". It will look "legal" on paper. That's the point I was making.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Having witnessed speed limits in Ohio being raised and lowered in response to public pressure, [in the case of the lowering, one 'connected' family, whose teenage son died after driving way over the current limit on a curve], I do not believe speed is anywhere near the danger the police & insurance companies insist it is - it's just the one factor they can prove. Aggressive driving [tailgating, frequent, impulsive/improper lane changes] and distracted driving are far greater causes of mayhem, but may be tough to prove, so get downgraded in nearly everyone's priorities.
That makes the roads far less safe for all of us, but speeding tickets make so many folks happy, they won't change it. It's a gold mine, and they will fight to protect it.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You know, the problem isn't them buying radar guns. One of the insurance companies had an ad campaign that showed cops pulling people over and asking for their proof of insurance. The voiceover or subtext said something to the effect of the cops being their best salesmen. And I thought, "Exactly!" They got their lobbyists to get the state legislatures to make the public buy their product. Wish I could get the legislature to make customers ship on my van.
BULLSEYE! I doubt seriously that altruism is the motivating factor behind the lizard insurance company footing the bill for radar guns.
 
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