I ask twice!

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Even though Turtle is a smart guy and been succesful at this a long time I see his statement about the awb misguided advise.
Why? If you are given an AWB#, a pro number (for an LTL pickup), a pickup number, or an NLMI number, those are very specific. Those numbers refer to documents and freight which list precisely what is to be shipped. If there is a discrepancy then you double-check with the shipper and then communicate that to Dispatch who's job it is to reconcile any discrepancy. Not only does the shipper know more about their own freight than you do, so does Dispatch.

There is no reason to assume there is additional or other freight to be picked up. There is, however, reason to assume Panther or the customer who booked the shipment made a mistake on the pieces and weight count, because it literally happens more often than not. If you drive away with the wrong freight, it's not because you took the wrong freight, as Panther would like you to take responsibility for, it's because you were given the wrong freight despite double-checking to ensure you had the correct freight. If there is an additional pickup number that someone failed to make you and the shipper aware of, it's the fault of whoever failed to make that information known. If there's some screw up and you drive away with the wrong freight or short freight, it's not a screw up you made.

Once you and the shipper are confident that you have the correct freight on board, and you've communicated to Dispatch what you have on board, there really is little else you can do as it's out of your hands. You didn't book, dispatch or ship the load - you're the mule who carries it. Like I said, in the scenario of the OP, I wouldn't pay a penny on that. He did everything that was expected of him, and the screw up was someone else's. Those in this thread who want to take these circumstances and place blame on the OP are disingenuous, at best.

My favorite line from the thread is, "Now instead of thinking you know everything, you might have considered that the freight was a consolidation of freight that came in from two different places" which is hilarious, because everything after the comma is an admonition to think you know everything. Fact is, if it was a consolidation of freight that came in from two different places, it would have two different AWB#s for it, or a consolidated AWB# indicating both shipments.

This thread, and EO in general, is full of replies from uber-perfect people who do, in fact, know everything and are so flawless they can correct problems they don't even know about. It's amazing. In this case with the OP, there was a discrepancy in which he questioned the shipper about, and then communicated the discrepancy to Dispatch in the manner in which Dispatch prefers, via Macro 3. A phone call to tell them the same information they are reading on their screen is utterly redundant and a complete waste of time at Panther. Once you've communicated the discrepancy to the dispatcher monitoring the load, and you don't hear anything from them about it, it's quite correct to assume they did their job and reconciled the discrepancy. That's all you can do. The dispatcher monitoring the load in this case failed to do their job and reconcile the discrepancy. It wasn't until the next day that the discrepancy was realized.

Do keep in mind that all of my comments in this thread are in the proper context, that of a cargo van at Panther. My comments may or may not apply to other vehicles at Panther, and may or may not apply to any vehicles at other carriers. I have to wonder if many of those in this thread fully appreciate the full and complete meaning of, "Your position in the cue is... eight. The average waiting time in the cue is... two minutes". <snort>
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Did the OP get the green light aka permission to leave the shipper, to go after the macro 3 was submitted? The Macro 3 is a very bad idea...especially when it is common knowledge that the QC is not a perfect system....the signal for a number of reasons could have been blocked from transmitting or has been known to float around in cyberspace before landing where it should...something as important as this should not be handled by QC....
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Why? If you are given an AWB#, a pro number (for an LTL pickup), a pickup number, or an NLMI number, those are very specific. Those numbers refer to documents and freight which list precisely what is to be shipped. If there is a discrepancy then you double-check with the shipper and then communicate that to Dispatch who's job it is to reconcile any discrepancy. Not only does the shipper know more about their own freight than you do, so does Dispatch.
".[/I] <snort>

NLM numbers are specific but sometimes things can change with the shipper and that information needs to be confirmed with NLM. I was told when I used to work for Bolt to always call in if the freight did not match. I have had to wait at the shipper for fifteen minutes before while dispatch called NLM to make sure it was ok for me to leave with less parts than I was supposed to pick up. Sometimes it was because they could not make enough parts in time to put the second skid on my truck. Now as for air weigh bill that is a different story.

The air weigh bill should have the exact dimensions of the load when they look it up. But with all due respect Panther shouldn't even be in the air freight business. I have pulled so many air freight loads for them as a partner carrier and they are all a mess from start to finish. me and RIP (60mph) used to call in and get the AWB number the night before and then use it to track the freigt on the customers website just to make sure it all matched up. After so many screw ups you learn how to pre-empt the problem. I am always proactive on air freight loads. Also, I always check the part numbers on the skids when i'm on an NLM load just to make sure everything is correct.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Did the OP get the green light aka permission to leave the shipper, to go after the macro 3 was submitted? The Macro 3 is a very bad idea...
Welcome to Panther. Embrace the stupidity. :D

But the way Panther's system is set up, Macro 3 is not really a bad idea at all. It wouldn't work out as well at many or most other carriers, but it's set up at Panther the way it is for a reason. Panther dispatchers assigned to monitor specific loads monitor those loads very carefully (a euphemism for hand-holding and baby-sitting the pee out of you, especially van drivers), and part of the job of those dispatchers is to closely scrutinize the Macro 3 information for any discrepancies with the load offer information. For example, one of the Y/N questions that get answered on the Macro 3 screen is does the BOL address match the QC address? If you answer N, then expect a call or a QC message ("Why NO on BOL") within about one minute. Many times I answered N to that question, and before I could even type in the BOL address to let them know what it is I'd get either a message or a call. Same with pieces and weight discrepancies. Any variation from the QC info, including pieces and weight, are red-flagged on the dispatcher's screen. In the case of the OP, when he typed in different numbers for pieces and weight, a red-flag popup window appeared on the dispatcher's screen. It should not have taken Dispatch until the next day to address that.

especially when it is common knowledge that the QC is not a perfect system....the signal for a number of reasons could have been blocked from transmitting or has been known to float around in cyberspace before landing where it should...something as important as this should not be handled by QC....
There are certain messages that you get automatically at Panther in response to certain Macros you send in. Getting those messages lets you know the QC is functioning properly. One of them is after your arrival at the shipper, for example, where you are automatically sent routing and local directions for the cons. Macro 3 isn't sent in order to get permission to leave, it's sent to inform Dispatch that you are leaving immediately.

The OP in this case didn't do anything wrong, despite those in this thread (and someone at Panther who failed to do their job) who want to place the blame squarely on him. He did precisely what he was supposed to do.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
NLM numbers are specific but sometimes things can change with the shipper and that information needs to be confirmed with NLM.
That's kinda why I said, "Those numbers refer to documents and freight which list precisely what is to be shipped. If there is a discrepancy then you double-check with the shipper and then communicate that to Dispatch..."

I was told when I used to work for Bolt to always call in if the freight did not match. I have had to wait at the shipper for fifteen minutes before while dispatch called NLM to make sure it was ok for me to leave with less parts than I was supposed to pick up.
If fifteen minutes is the most you've ever had to wait, I would say you are very lucky? :D

Clearly, you shouldn't leave the shipper until you are sure that you have the right freight, or have it documented or otherwise CYA on the matter. In the case of the OP, the only thing he didn't do was call Dispatch and tell them exactly what they were already seeing on their screen. That hardly makes him at fault.

I have had virtually the same thing happen to me at Panther more than once. On one occasion I was even given the unambiguous go-ahead to leave from the dispatcher, sent and confirmed via the QC. They still tried to come back on me a day later and tell me I was at fault. I prevailed in every case. Stand your ground, don't cave.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Welcome to Panther. Embrace the stupidity. :D


Same with pieces and weight discrepancies. Any variation from the QC info, including pieces and weight, are red-flagged on the dispatcher's screen. In the case of the OP, when he typed in different numbers for pieces and weight, a red-flag popup window appeared on the dispatcher's screen. It should not have taken Dispatch until the next day to address that.
I don't believe that discrepancies between the load offer and macro 3 involving the pieces and weight get red flagged. How many times have you received a load offer: pcs. 1 weight 1 only to load 2 pallets at 2000 lbs. and never hear a word from Panther. Yesterday I got a load offer pcs.1 weight 883. The shipper didn't have a ramp so we loaded 19 sheets of 4' x 8' plastic board into my van from the dock. I signed for 19 pcs and used 19 pcs. on the mac 3.

A few weeks ago I got a load offer for 2 pcs. @ 2500 lbs. I'm on record with Panther for a maximum cargo weight of 2340 lbs. I'm only 12 miles from the shipper so I accept the load figuring worst case, I get a dry run. The freight is two steel tubs containing small metal stamped brackets the were plated. Each tub had the same number of parts, one contained left hand brackets and the other right hand brackets. The BOL stated 2500 lbs. I gave one of the tubs a push and I could move it, so I estimated it weigh about 1000 lbs. I've thrown enough freight to be fairly close at estimating weights.

Got the tubs loaded, did the macro 3 using 2500lbs as the weight and hit the road. 40 miles later I get a call from a very nice lady asking me if I'm okay with the extra weight. I tell her everything is cool and explain that the weight ticket I sent Panther shows my weight to about 300lbs. more than the actual weight. Yeah, yeah, I know most people buy a van, weigh it and then add 1000 lbs. of personal junk so they can haul more weight. I do things different. The very nice lady said safety wanted to talk to me so she transfer my call. I got put on hold for several minutes and then dumped into someone's voice mail. I hung up.

30 minutes later I get a call from a women in safety who turned out to be not very nice. She wanted to know how my van was handling with the extra weight. I told her 160 lbs. wasn't going to have an effect on handling. I then explained to her about the weight ticket being 300lbs. more than actual weight (she has some difficulty comprehending this) and that by my estimate, the freight only weighed about 2000 pounds anyway. She said I should called in before leaving the shipper. I told her there was no need to call and that calling is a huge waste of my time because I get put on hold and then re-routed to either the wrong department or someone's voice mail. I also asked why they would offer a 2500lbs load to a 2340lbs van.

I guess that's not what she wanted to hear. Her response, and this is classical Panther "We spend too much time on calls like this one, I've been talking to you for almost 10 minutes. All I wanted to know is how your van was handling. I didn't need to know about the weight of your van or your estimated weight of the freight". I informed her that she had just spent another precious few minutes replaying our original 10 minute time wasting conversation. Then I said good bye and hung up.

Got to the consignee and had the fork truck driver weigh both tubs, total weight was a little over 2100 pounds.

There are certain messages that you get automatically at Panther in response to certain Macros you send in. Getting those messages lets you know the QC is functioning properly. One of them is after your arrival at the shipper, for example, where you are automatically sent routing and local directions for the cons. Macro 3 isn't sent in order to get permission to leave, it's sent to inform Dispatch that you are leaving immediately.

The OP in this case didn't do anything wrong, despite those in this thread (and someone at Panther who failed to do their job) who want to place the blame squarely on him. He did precisely what he was supposed to do.[/QUOTE]
 
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Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
It doesn't matter what the shipper lists the weight for air freight as. Before that freight gets loaded onto a plane it is weighed and measured. Even if the shipper provides and airway bill, the freight will be weighed before loading.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I dunno. The two times I spent time observing dispatch, discrepancies were flagged.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I believe that was Panther's high school cafeteria that you were talking to. That new phone system can transfer you anywhere. ;)
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I dunno. The two times I spent time observing dispatch, discrepancies were flagged.
Okay, after talking with you about this I will concede that discrepancies may be flagged, it's dispatches reaction to these flags that I question.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I believe that was Panther's high school cafeteria that you were talking to. That new phone system can transfer you anywhere. ;)

True, but anywhere never seems to coincide with exactly where I want to be transferred to. I will admit that the time on hold has been greatly reduced. I doubt I will ever beat my previous on hold time from a few years ago of 72 minutes.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
72 minutes is absurd. Years ago I needed some info to enter a port. I was placed on hold. This was burning needed cell minutes so I wandered over to a pay phone. Will still on hold on my cell the dispatcher answered my pay phone call.
I was critical of phone protocal that day.
 

Freightdawg

Expert Expediter
Stravisla Brezinskimykopf is one of the drivers who picks up the BMW stuff I fly into GSP, Greer SC. At least his name is something like that!
 

Freightdawg

Expert Expediter
It doesn't matter what the shipper lists the weight for air freight as. Before that freight gets loaded onto a plane it is weighed and measured. Even if the shipper provides and airway bill, the freight will be weighed before loading.

Oh how I wish that was true!
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Oh how I wish that was true!

It is true in the world of general air freight. I believe you fly character air freight, pretty much one shipper and one consignee. You aren't dealing with a hundred or more shipments. I'm sure if you wanted to and it was practical, you could re-weigh each shipment before loading to verify the weight.

A former employer of mine, an LTL carrier has equipped all fork trucks, system wide, with scales. They also have people on the outbound dock who's job is to verify freight classifications. Too many customers are fudging on the weight and trying to pass off stuff like upholstery batting as class 50. The company must figure they are losing a lot of money for them to invest in onboard forklift scales and wandering dock stooges.
 

underdog777

Seasoned Expediter
update, they seen it my way after I told them I would send them a picture of the qc message with the airbill number and dispatcher name on it. but it has been a rough week so far 3 load offers monday that I turned all down. the first a mini pick up 80 miles away deliver 10 miles 100.00 pay , second 191 milea to atl ga dh 35 miles, third and this is the one I should have took but I was already tired of all the house errands 376 miles to georgetown ky dh 20 miles. so after monday no load offers , if dont get any today ill go out of service till after monday, then I might try, try hours
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Thanks for the update.

I'll second that thanks! It nice to hear the outcome of a poster's problem. Too often the "rest of the story" never gets told, especially with mechanical problems and our attempts at online diagnosis. Thanks again for the update Underdog.
 
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