How long?
- Thread starter layoutshooter
- Start date
I TRY to avoid these conversations in real life. Don't always succeed, but I try.
Not much of a hockey fan are ya?
You know, I SHOULD remember him, I just don't. I used to pay a LOT more attention to hockey back then. Must be old age setting in.
He had quite a career if you ask me! <nobody did ask me, but here ya go anyway>
[h=2]Career statistics[edit][/h]
| Regular season | Playoffs | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Season | Team | League | GP | G | A | Pts | PIM | GP | G | A | Pts | PIM |
| 1947–48 | St. Michael's Majors | OHA | 32 | 6 | 7 | 13 | 137 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1948–49 | St. Michael's Majors | OHA | 32 | 9 | 18 | 27 | 95 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1949–50 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| 1949–50 | Pittsburgh Hornets | AHL | 60 | 5 | 18 | 23 | 83 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1950–51 | Pittsburgh Hornets | AHL | 68 | 8 | 26 | 34 | 129 | 13 | 0 | 9 | 9 | 16 |
| 1951–52 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 8 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1951–52 | Pittsburgh Hornets | AHL | 64 | 12 | 19 | 31 | 146 | 11 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 16 |
| 1952–53 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 2 | 14 | 16 | 85 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1953–54 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 7 | 24 | 31 | 94 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 |
| 1954–55 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 67 | 5 | 9 | 14 | 84 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1955–56 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 35 | 0 | 5 | 5 | 36 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 |
| 1956–57 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 66 | 6 | 19 | 25 | 72 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1957–58 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 53 | 6 | 20 | 26 | 39 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1958–59 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 5 | 21 | 26 | 76 | 12 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 16 |
| 1959–60 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 3 | 29 | 32 | 69 | 10 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 6 |
| 1960–61 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 57 | 6 | 15 | 21 | 75 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 1961–62 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 10 | 28 | 38 | 88 | 12 | 3 | 13 | 16 | 16 |
| 1962–63 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 6 | 19 | 25 | 69 | 10 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 10 |
| 1963–64 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 9 | 20 | 29 | 71 | 14 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 20 |
| 1964–65 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 12 | 16 | 28 | 95 | 6 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 13 |
| 1965–66 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 6 | 22 | 28 | 76 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 12 |
| 1966–67 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 8 | 17 | 25 | 70 | 12 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 25 |
| 1967–68 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 69 | 4 | 23 | 27 | 82 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1968–69 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 74 | 11 | 29 | 40 | 107 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7 |
| 1969–70 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 59 | 3 | 19 | 22 | 91 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1969–70 | New York Rangers | NHL | 15 | 1 | 5 | 6 | 16 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 28 |
| 1970–71 | New York Rangers | NHL | 78 | 2 | 18 | 20 | 57 | 13 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 14 |
| 1971–72 | Pittsburgh Penguins | NHL | 44 | 2 | 9 | 11 | 40 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 |
| 1972–73 | Buffalo Sabres | NHL | 69 | 1 | 16 | 17 | 56 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
| 1973–74 | Buffalo Sabres | NHL | 55 | 0 | 6 | 6 | 53 | — | — | — | — | — |
| NHL totals | 1446 | 115 | 403 | 518 | 1611 | 126 | 11 | 39 | 50 | 183 |
He had quite a career if you ask me! <nobody did ask me, but here ya go anyway>
Career statistics
| Regular season | Playoffs | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Season | Team | League | GP | G | A | Pts | PIM | GP | G | A | Pts | PIM |
| 1947–48 | St. Michael's Majors | OHA | 32 | 6 | 7 | 13 | 137 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1948–49 | St. Michael's Majors | OHA | 32 | 9 | 18 | 27 | 95 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1949–50 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | ||||||
| 1949–50 | Pittsburgh Hornets | AHL | 60 | 5 | 18 | 23 | 83 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1950–51 | Pittsburgh Hornets | AHL | 68 | 8 | 26 | 34 | 129 | 13 | 9 | 9 | 16 | |
| 1951–52 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 4 | 8 | — | — | — | — | — | |||
| 1951–52 | Pittsburgh Hornets | AHL | 64 | 12 | 19 | 31 | 146 | 11 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 16 |
| 1952–53 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 2 | 14 | 16 | 85 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1953–54 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 7 | 24 | 31 | 94 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 4 |
| 1954–55 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 67 | 5 | 9 | 14 | 84 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1955–56 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 35 | 5 | 5 | 36 | 2 | 4 | ||||
| 1956–57 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 66 | 6 | 19 | 25 | 72 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1957–58 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 53 | 6 | 20 | 26 | 39 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1958–59 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 5 | 21 | 26 | 76 | 12 | 3 | 3 | 16 | |
| 1959–60 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 3 | 29 | 32 | 69 | 10 | 1 | 1 | 6 | |
| 1960–61 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 57 | 6 | 15 | 21 | 75 | 5 | ||||
| 1961–62 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 10 | 28 | 38 | 88 | 12 | 3 | 13 | 16 | 16 |
| 1962–63 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 6 | 19 | 25 | 69 | 10 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 10 |
| 1963–64 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 9 | 20 | 29 | 71 | 14 | 4 | 4 | 20 | |
| 1964–65 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 12 | 16 | 28 | 95 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 13 | |
| 1965–66 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 6 | 22 | 28 | 76 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 12 | |
| 1966–67 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 70 | 8 | 17 | 25 | 70 | 12 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 25 |
| 1967–68 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 69 | 4 | 23 | 27 | 82 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1968–69 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 74 | 11 | 29 | 40 | 107 | 4 | 7 | |||
| 1969–70 | Toronto Maple Leafs | NHL | 59 | 3 | 19 | 22 | 91 | — | — | — | — | — |
| 1969–70 | New York Rangers | NHL | 15 | 1 | 5 | 6 | 16 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 28 |
| 1970–71 | New York Rangers | NHL | 78 | 2 | 18 | 20 | 57 | 13 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 14 |
| 1971–72 | Pittsburgh Penguins | NHL | 44 | 2 | 9 | 11 | 40 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 2 | |
| 1972–73 | Buffalo Sabres | NHL | 69 | 1 | 16 | 17 | 56 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 4 | |
| 1973–74 | Buffalo Sabres | NHL | 55 | 6 | 6 | 53 | — | — | — | — | — | |
| NHL totals | 1446 | 115 | 403 | 518 | 1611 | 126 | 11 | 39 | 50 | 183 |
Playing pro sports is not a fundamental right, however, pursuing a chosen trade is a liberty and a pursuit of happiness guaranteed by the Constitution. If someone is convicted of a felony and pays their debt to society, restricting the manner in which they then can be productive and earn a living, as long as that living is not illegal, is an infringement of their basic fundamental liberties.
You are, if you want to impose limits on how they can earn a living or be productive.
Replace "playing a game" with any profession you choose, whether it's "flipping burgers" or "fighting fires" or "serving in Congress" or "driving a truck" and you'll see how ridiculous of a statement that is, unless it's games, games, and only games that you find abhorrent in all its forms.
If these people are not allowed to participate in their chosen profession, possibly the only profession in which they can earn a living, and instead must remain jobless or take a demeaning job that robs them of all hope and dignity, just how, exactly, will that cut down on street crime?
Also, which in which professions would you grant convicted felons access?
It's a business where coaches and players are paid to win. What else is it supposed to be about?
And getting a felony conviction and doing time in jail is.... what?
You come off sounding jealous and envious, more than anything. As if $10 a game would change your stance completely.
Ah, jealously, envy AND resentment. Got it.
The fact is, if you have a special skill or ability, unseemly transgressions are often overlooked or forgiven as long as they don't damage the profession or the company you work for, doesn't matter what the profession might be. If it damages the profession or the company, even minor transgressions will not be overlooked. Because... it's all about the money, regardless of the profession.
"Replace "playing a game" with any profession you choose, whether it's "flipping burgers" or "fighting fires" or "serving in Congress" or "driving a truck" and you'll see how ridiculous of a statement that is, unless it's games, games, and only games that you find abhorrent in all its forms."
Ah but many LAW ABIDING citizens were, are are denied the "RIGHT" to do MANY jobs. Veterans were not "allowed" to fight forest fires and then a year later, law breakers were GIVEN that job to "redeem" themselves. Then again teaching the lesson that "doing the right thing" gets one punished and committing crimes reaps rewards. I have seen employees of states "Laid off" do to lack of work, only to see prisoners brought in to do the same work that did not exist. Again, teaching that "doing the right thing" gets one punished.
The list of these types of things are ENDLESS. Just like the high school football star given a "free pass" for drunk driving when a "normal" student would have been expelled. We know this goes on in "spades" in college. OR, even worse, when CONVICTED criminals, serving sentences at Vision Quest Prison, for attempted murder and aggravated assault, were GIVEN positions on the basketball and football teams, at the high school in Franklin, PA, instead of kids who had did NOTHING wrong. Which taught THOSE kids that doing the "right thing" does no good since winning in high school is MORE important than learning team work and sportsmanship.
IF you look back into MANY, not all, of these "pampered ones" you WILL find a pattern of these types of behavior. It often starts at VERY early ages. Sometimes in elementary school.
I am not "jealous" of who earns what doing what, I DO get ticked when certain people are given "Special Privilege" for transgressions. As long as we, as a society, continue to place a higher value on sports than our own doctors this will continue and IF one has the talent to earn their way, more power to them. As long as there is NO special treatment, which will likely NEVER stop.
Why not allow those who rob banks work at them after they get out of prison? Why not allow ANY criminal to work at ANY job once they are out? After all, they paid their debt. Then, if you are a vet, take your RIGHT to own and carry arms away, because you have had problems with PTSD and you MIGHT commit a crime. You have not, but you MIGHT. Or we could ignore lawbreaking and allow the person to become or remain a senator, because he is from a privileged family or even become a president.
ALL of this teaches kids that living a "legal life" is not as important as privilege or "special" talents are.
Ah but many LAW ABIDING citizens were, are are denied the "RIGHT" to do MANY jobs. Veterans were not "allowed" to fight forest fires and then a year later, law breakers were GIVEN that job to "redeem" themselves. Then again teaching the lesson that "doing the right thing" gets one punished and committing crimes reaps rewards. I have seen employees of states "Laid off" do to lack of work, only to see prisoners brought in to do the same work that did not exist. Again, teaching that "doing the right thing" gets one punished.
The list of these types of things are ENDLESS. Just like the high school football star given a "free pass" for drunk driving when a "normal" student would have been expelled. We know this goes on in "spades" in college. OR, even worse, when CONVICTED criminals, serving sentences at Vision Quest Prison, for attempted murder and aggravated assault, were GIVEN positions on the basketball and football teams, at the high school in Franklin, PA, instead of kids who had did NOTHING wrong. Which taught THOSE kids that doing the "right thing" does no good since winning in high school is MORE important than learning team work and sportsmanship.
IF you look back into MANY, not all, of these "pampered ones" you WILL find a pattern of these types of behavior. It often starts at VERY early ages. Sometimes in elementary school.
I am not "jealous" of who earns what doing what, I DO get ticked when certain people are given "Special Privilege" for transgressions. As long as we, as a society, continue to place a higher value on sports than our own doctors this will continue and IF one has the talent to earn their way, more power to them. As long as there is NO special treatment, which will likely NEVER stop.
Why not allow those who rob banks work at them after they get out of prison? Why not allow ANY criminal to work at ANY job once they are out? After all, they paid their debt. Then, if you are a vet, take your RIGHT to own and carry arms away, because you have had problems with PTSD and you MIGHT commit a crime. You have not, but you MIGHT. Or we could ignore lawbreaking and allow the person to become or remain a senator, because he is from a privileged family or even become a president.
ALL of this teaches kids that living a "legal life" is not as important as privilege or "special" talents are.
Yeah, I know. I remember guys on the Leafs from that era, like Keon and Pullford. When I was a kid I knew ALL that stuff for MOST players in the Original 6. As a kid that was important, not it is not. I have just let that go.
I think seeing athletes or anyone who kids may look up to fall from grace can be a great learning lesson when parents show their children that no one is infallible. I don't see much pandering going on with athletes when they get to court. Chad Johnson being thrown in jail after patting his lawyer on the rear following a judges dumb comments about how good the lawyer was (what does that have to do with anything? why would a judge feel compelled to comment on that?) being a prime example.
Actually, all of that teaches kids that the rampant and misguided use of more logical fallacies than you can shake a stick at is not a convincing argument of anything other than a love for logical fallacies. Wow, dood. You make a ridiculously broad brush statement and then try to defend it with one exception to the rule after another, interspersed with straw man arguments.
I don' know if you ever had the joy of raising kids, but I did. It was VERY hard to teach them right from wrong. BOTH of them came to me, while they were in high school, different schools in different states, asking why it was that the really good kids on the sports team got away with all kinds of stuff that no one else could. How it was that those kids did not have to have good grades to graduate, or when they got in trouble it was over looked and the "normal" kids were held to a higher standard both for grades and "law infractions". Both said it was not fair. I told them both the same thing, not that it helped. First off, life is not fair, and that sports is more important than academics OR following the law. That is what they, and I saw.
That's fine, but it doesn't defend the statement that anyone convicted of a felony should not be allowed to play professional sports. What happens in high school or even college is a straw man argument that has nothing to do with a post-felony conviction and preventing someone from working in their chosen professions.
So let me ask you, what type of profession is acceptable for a convicted felon who has paid his debt to society? What is acceptable work for them, and what is an acceptable maximum salary?
So let me ask you, what type of profession is acceptable for a convicted felon who has paid his debt to society? What is acceptable work for them, and what is an acceptable maximum salary?
Most anything, no maximum salary, just something that very impressionable children won't choose to follow. I see NO reason they could not run a day care center. Want your kids there?
I remember clearly my "children" at the youth prison saying that there is no use in "acting right" if they can do what ever they choose and STILL make millions bouncing a ball. I never really thought about it until I worked there.
The "liberties" those "special ones" are shown in high school and college lead them to the excesses often seen in their adult lives. Reign them in in high school, require them to adhere to the rules that the "Normal" ones are required to adhere too, and MOST, not all, of the crap we see today would stop.
Everyone has a responsibility to provide a POSITIVE example for the next generation. Thugs don't do that.
Yes, a few "thugs" redeem themselves, and yes, that is a FINE example of what should be done. Unfortunately, that is NOT the norm.
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