HOS help
- Thread starter Daffyduck528
- Start date
I have never even BEEN to a Bill Knapps in the first place.
Incorrect? Not according to the logbook auditor Dora [the explorer] at Load 1. I have used the split sleeper on a few occasions, after clearing it with Dora, to make sure I have it right.
This is the example I use to keep it straight:
Drive: 1000-1400 [4 hrs]
Sleep: 1400-2200 [8 hrs]
At 2200, can drive 7 more hrs [11-4], or until 0500, then need a 2 hr sleep.
At 0700, the 11/14 start over.
As I said, I don't know why teams would use it, but for solos, there are times when it is helpful.
If they needed my support they would have been in trouble right from the start. They should have looked to someone who had money.
No, hockey is not a religion but hunting and fishing are.
Teams would run this to avoid the off duty 1/2 hour break.
We are team that only runs this split. We both tried the 11/11 but didn't like it at all.
I guess our internal sleep clocks like split 8-3-3-8 too. We both enjoy naps!!
All we do is to remember not to go past our 8 hours or go past our 3 hours.
Wife starts usually with day 8 and then my turn with 3. Then she finished her day with 3 and then I finish the night with my 8.
For us all the cross country trips are less tiring. After 8 we sleep if we want.
Note: I am rounding the numbers!! Don't go over 8 and don't go over 3 and you never have a problem. (as stated you only have to rest 2)
As long as you both have reset with 10 hours before you start it you can pick it up. Anywhere in the day.
Since I drive nights we make sure we end up with my 8 during the night.
8-3-3-8 or 3-3-8-8 or 3-8-8-3
Like it was mentioned above we don't have to sit the 1/2 hour break.
I guess our internal sleep clocks like split 8-3-3-8 too. We both enjoy naps!!
All we do is to remember not to go past our 8 hours or go past our 3 hours.
Wife starts usually with day 8 and then my turn with 3. Then she finished her day with 3 and then I finish the night with my 8.
For us all the cross country trips are less tiring. After 8 we sleep if we want.
Note: I am rounding the numbers!! Don't go over 8 and don't go over 3 and you never have a problem. (as stated you only have to rest 2)
As long as you both have reset with 10 hours before you start it you can pick it up. Anywhere in the day.
Since I drive nights we make sure we end up with my 8 during the night.
8-3-3-8 or 3-3-8-8 or 3-8-8-3
Like it was mentioned above we don't have to sit the 1/2 hour break.
The above post proves that cookie cutter regulations are dangerous. We find that the above system is very tiring and never feel rested. We try to avoid loads that require it. Others can thrive in it. Everyone is different.
Zorry we follow all fmsca requirements and have had no problems with our logs being examined by DOT
Here is the code for your reading pleasure
Each driver needs to follow these requirements and not the answer from non DOT approved and qualified employee.
396.12 396.15 >
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Inspection, repair, and maintenance
§ 396.13Driver inspection.
Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:
(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;
(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and
(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.
396.9 396.12 >
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Inspection, repair, and maintenance
§ 396.11Driver vehicle inspection report(s).
(a) Equipment provided by motor carrier. (1) Report required.Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated, except for intermodal equipment tendered by an intermodal equipment provider. The report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:
(i) Service brakes including trailer brake connections;
(ii) Parking brake;
(iii) Steering mechanism;
(iv) Lighting devices and reflectors;
(v) Tires;
(vi) Horn;
(vii) Windshield wipers;
(viii) Rear vision mirrors;
(ix) Coupling devices;
(x) Wheels and rims;
(xi) Emergency equipment;
(2) Report content. The report shall identify the vehicle and list any defect or deficiency discovered by or reported to the driver which would affect the safety of operation of the vehicle or result in its mechanical breakdown. If no defect or deficiency is discovered by or reported to the driver, the report shall so indicate. In all instances, the driver shall sign the report. On two-driver operations, only one driver needs to sign the driver vehicle inspection report, provided both drivers agree as to the defects or deficiencies identified. If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day, a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated.
Now back to on topic discussion.....
Here is the code for your reading pleasure
Each driver needs to follow these requirements and not the answer from non DOT approved and qualified employee.
396.12 396.15 >
Related Links
Disclaimer
Interpretation
Help
Inspection, repair, and maintenance
§ 396.13Driver inspection.
Before driving a motor vehicle, the driver shall:
(a) Be satisfied that the motor vehicle is in safe operating condition;
(b) Review the last driver vehicle inspection report; and
(c) Sign the report, only if defects or deficiencies were noted by the driver who prepared the report, to acknowledge that the driver has reviewed it and that there is a certification that the required repairs have been performed. The signature requirement does not apply to listed defects on a towed unit which is no longer part of the vehicle combination.
396.9 396.12 >
Related Links
Disclaimer
Interpretation
Help
Inspection, repair, and maintenance
§ 396.11Driver vehicle inspection report(s).
(a) Equipment provided by motor carrier. (1) Report required.Every motor carrier shall require its drivers to report, and every driver shall prepare a report in writing at the completion of each day's work on each vehicle operated, except for intermodal equipment tendered by an intermodal equipment provider. The report shall cover at least the following parts and accessories:
(i) Service brakes including trailer brake connections;
(ii) Parking brake;
(iii) Steering mechanism;
(iv) Lighting devices and reflectors;
(v) Tires;
(vi) Horn;
(vii) Windshield wipers;
(viii) Rear vision mirrors;
(ix) Coupling devices;
(x) Wheels and rims;
(xi) Emergency equipment;
(2) Report content. The report shall identify the vehicle and list any defect or deficiency discovered by or reported to the driver which would affect the safety of operation of the vehicle or result in its mechanical breakdown. If no defect or deficiency is discovered by or reported to the driver, the report shall so indicate. In all instances, the driver shall sign the report. On two-driver operations, only one driver needs to sign the driver vehicle inspection report, provided both drivers agree as to the defects or deficiencies identified. If a driver operates more than one vehicle during the day, a report shall be prepared for each vehicle operated.
Now back to on topic discussion.....
zorry
Veteran Expediter
The difference between a solo and a team doing the split is in the team situation one must be sure you're leaving the teammate enough time to get 8 hrs rest.
As a solo: On the 14, if I have it right, the 8 in the bunk makes it as if those 8 hrs never happened. I mentally subtract the 8 hrs out of the day and continue on my 14.
As a solo: On the 14, if I have it right, the 8 in the bunk makes it as if those 8 hrs never happened. I mentally subtract the 8 hrs out of the day and continue on my 14.
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paullud
Veteran Expediter
That is incorrect. At 07:00 you would get 4 hours back and your 14 hour clock would be running from your last break of 8 hours or more which in this example started at 22:00.
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I've been logging since before the HOS were changed the first time, and I've used the split sleeper in both versions. I've never received a log violation for calculating it incorrectly - I'll take the log auditors' determination, rather than yours.
The split sleeper is good for avoiding the 30 minute break, and also for those 'pick up late afternoon, drive overnite, deliver first thing in the morning' loads we do a lot of. Logging without the split leaves you delivering with zero drive time left [good luck getting off the customer's property!] and unavailable until 1800 or later [good luck getting another load!] while the split sleeper can solve both problems.
I also don't like driving 10-11 hours straight, [or in rush hour traffic] so it works for me.
paullud
Veteran Expediter
I have no problem with people using it as I have done the same when needed. The only reasons that you would not have received a violation is that the log auditor did not check thoroughly, does not understand the regulation, our you just didn't drive long enough after the 2 hour break so there was no violation. Think about it this way: you drive 4 hours and then take an 8 hour break leaving you 7 hours. You then drive 7 hours and take a 2 hour break and then can drive another 8 hours before the 30 minute break. That doesn't seem odd to you that you can drive for 15 hours in a 17 hour window. That would mean you could show that you did a PTI at 00:00 then immediately went into the sleeper until 08:00, drove until 16:00, break until 18:00, then drove until 02:00, 30 minute break, then drove until 05:30. That's 19 hours of driving in 21.5 hours and you think that is the way the regulation was written? If your log auditor told that then they are just completely wrong, it defies common sense.
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Daffyduck528
Expert Expediter
Well we did it! What a terrible way to drive. I felt like a zombie driving a time or two and a wide awake once during my 8 hours in the sleeper. It's fair to say these will be limited to use only as absolutely needed to. At first I liked coming out of sleeper and only driving 2 hours but then I couldn't sleep for the 8 hour break and it threw me off. :-(
Your math is as screwy as your procedure: do a PTI, and immediately go into the sleeper?
Not how I do it, lol. A PTI is worthless if it isn't done shortly before leaving: ever heard about 'practical jokers' who pull the 5th wheel handle, then yuk it up when you drive off, leaving the trailer on the ground? *Edit: just realized the PTI is for post trip, lol. But your figures are still wrong: the drive from 0800 - 1600 is not 7 hours, it's 8. [Is this why carriers "don't want drivers to use the split sleeper"? LOL]
This is a typical load, and how the split sleeper can make it work:
PU in Akron @ 1600, [38 mile DH], Del. in Louisville, Ky @ 0700 [312 loaded]
1430-1445 PTI
1445-1545 DH
1545-1615 Load, secure, log, etc
1615-2030 In Cincy [all times/mileages made up!] Take a 30 minute break, because the remaining 112 miles may not get done in the remaining 2 hours, given the traffic and construction from Cincy through northern Ky. [I spent 3.5 hours going that far through Texas yesterday, with construction south of D/FW]
2030-2100 Mandatory break
2100 Drive remaining miles to Louisville, arrive 2330.
Uh oh: 14 hour clock is up @ 0430, and you need to unload @ 0700. You can do it, but you can't drive off the customer's property - now what? Plus, even if you can stay put, you'll have to start the 10 hour break after delivery, going back in service at 1730 at the very earliest. Good luck!
Now, try the split sleeper:
Begin the same, but at 2030, take an 8 hour sleeper period, until 0430. Subtract what you drove already [04.75] from 11, and you have 06.25 left to drive, and the 14 hr clock has bumped back from 0430 to 1230 [added 8 hrs, for time in sleeper].
Do another PTI, 0430-0445
0445-0645 Drive to Louisville [112 mi]
0645-0715 Unload
0715-0730 Drive [to nearest big box store!]
You have made delivery and left the customer's property without violating the HOS, and can sleep until ready to go back in service. For me, that's around 1400 or so, depending on what errands/chores I need to do. It sure beats waiting until after 1730!
You are correct in that the split sleeper used repeatedly will result in violations, but no one in their right mind would do it that way, and I certainly don't. I use it when it works, or when I want to, but not every day, or even every week.
You mentioned carriers who don't allow [or want] drivers to use the split sleeper - do you have any sources for that claim?
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Perfectly illustrates the fatal flaw of HOS: one size does not fit all, or even the same driver, all days.
Some days I can drive practically forever, others, I am dragging after a few hours. It's insane to pretend we're all the same, and our days are all alike too.
Only in FMCSA Universe.....
paullud
Veteran Expediter
I never said that it was 7 hours, the 7 hours was just another example of how ridiculous it would be if the 8/2 worked the way you claimed. The fact that experienced drivers don't understand the regulation is why carriers don't want drivers using the 8/2.
That part is correct but you do NOT get a full 14/11 back after the 2 hour break as you claim. The only way to do that is to take at least a 10 hour break.
You have made delivery and left the customer's property without violating the HOS, and can sleep until ready to go back in service. For me, that's around 1400 or so, depending on what errands/chores I need to do. It sure beats waiting until after 1730!
You are correct in that the split sleeper used repeatedly will result in violations, but no one in their right mind would do it that way, and I certainly don't. I use it when it works, or when I want to, but not every day, or even every week.
You mentioned carriers who don't allow [or want] drivers to use the split sleeper - do you have any sources for that claim?
Yes, I am a source for that claim. Some companies just don't want to complicate things and have violations popping up because someone thought that they knew what they were doing.
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