PerfPlusLBC
Rookie Expediter
Re: !!
Greasyshirt, I think I just sent you a PM about buying a turbo from you, thanks for all the help!!
Greasyshirt, I think I just sent you a PM about buying a turbo from you, thanks for all the help!!
Hino turbo
- Thread starter spongebox1
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- hino trucks
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
!!
A little history on the issue we are having: The truck is driven daily in Los Angeles on a 150 mile parts run with about a dozen stops along the way. It stopped making boost and the driver limped it to his next stop, I brought him another truck and I drove that one back. I got in and the truck ran fine for 15 minutes, then lost boost - wouldn't go over 50MPH on the freeway, down to 35MPH up a mild grade. Engine light was on. Stop and restart the truck and the light is out and it now can makes boost again for a few minutes, then light back on and no boost (BTW, truck is a 2005 Hino 238).
I am not 100% sure it's the VNT other than the dealer said it was (and I think that with this many miles on the original the turbo seems like a easy suspect). I am concerned that we will swap the turbo and find out it wasn't the turbo. Found a turbo online from a reputable place in San Diego for $1145. The other shop that I want to have do the install does't have a way to read codes so right now we are guessing if it's the VNT or not. Any thoughts on how to figure that out without being able to read the codes?
Any help appreciated!!!
@PerfPlusLBC Did you ever solve this? Did a new VNT/Turbo fix your problem? I have a 2006 UD2600 (they have Hino J08E engines) which is doing the exact same thing. At first it was just random, but now it is a persistent problem, setting the check engine light right after you start driving (but clearing the light by switching truck off/on).
Dealer scan showed U0073 VNT CAN Communication error as active code when I got it scanned, but it did also have the P0045 showing as an inactive code.
Because of the U0073 VNT CAN Communication error, I've been trying to track down a wiring problem, hoping that maybe it was just a chaffed wire for the communications between the ECU and VNT, but no luck so far.
@greasytshirt I cannot move my VNT rod manually. It is hard to reach on the J08E, and maybe it moves 1/32 of an inch but I think this is just tolerance in the rod joints. Should the manual movement test be more obvious then this? If it doesn't move, but the rods connections don't look to be seized up does this usually indicate a bricked VNT?
Also, does anyone know if the VNT's can be purchased separately from the complete turbo? My turbo is GT4082KLNV - 766758-2 - 17201-E0140 and my VNT is 738265-0039 - B4070-833 DC12V 796 Mitsuba.
The controller has a stepper motor of sorts in it, and it doesn't move easily. I might take a firm shove to get it to move. When confronted with one that's seized tight (and is seconds from a decision to be replaced), I've taken a 2 foot long screwdriver and a hammer and have forced it to move through its stroke. This has worked a couple of times.
With a U0073 present, it's worth checking the entire ground path. The engine's ecu needs a good ground. It's case ground or ground wires may attach to a stud or common grounding point inside the cab, and that needs to be taken to bare metal. The cab should be grounded to the frame, with all connections cleaned down to bare metal. Finally, the same between the frame and batteries. This in itself has fixed U0073 a couple of times, preventing a premature turbo replacement. It's also worth mentioning that some harness connectors are harder to completely shove together than others, and it's worth the effort to double check every connector between the VNT and the ecu.
If it returns, you need a turbo.
In theory, another failure on the engine CAN could cause a number of network codes. IDK enough about these UDs to tell you where to start.
I have not found a source of VNT controllers anywhere. The few places that claim to rebuild Hino turbos simply spray paint the VNT so it looks new.
A few here have found good used VNTs and replaced them without incident, and others have found out that this doesn't always work. You can have a good turbo and good VNT, but simply bolting them together may not work. They have to be calibrated to each other via a tiny thin setscrew, and there's no way that will ever turn without breaking on a used turbo. Besides, there's no information published on how to do this adjustment.
Get an aerosol can of Loctite nickel antiseize and lube the VNT linkage, especially the upper pivot (extremely difficult to see), and shove the VNT linkage around some. It may improve it, might not, but it can't hurt.
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cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
Thanks again for all the info. There is so little out there. I'll give it one more shake to establish good ground and wire continuity from the VNT back to the ECU. The challenge I have is that this is actually a UD, not a Hino, so matching wire harness diagram info is hit and miss. Many things are the same, but some are not. IE, UD is using a different ECU so the pin #'s are not the same to Hino. I can't imagine the need for good ground is any different though, so I'll double check that too.
I suppose if the VNT must be matched to the turbo, this is likely the reason they do not want to sell the VNT separately.
Anyone you know purchase re-man turbo from this place?
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forums/threads/hino-turbo.60973/page-2
They say the above linked turbo comes complete with the VNT, and the VNT is also covered by their 1 year warranty. At $1450 (after core refund) its a fair savings over the $3300 UD wants for new (of course it is rebuilt not new though).
Also. How much stroke am I looking for out of the VNT? Are we talking 1/8" or 3/4"?
I suppose if the VNT must be matched to the turbo, this is likely the reason they do not want to sell the VNT separately.
Anyone you know purchase re-man turbo from this place?
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forums/threads/hino-turbo.60973/page-2
They say the above linked turbo comes complete with the VNT, and the VNT is also covered by their 1 year warranty. At $1450 (after core refund) its a fair savings over the $3300 UD wants for new (of course it is rebuilt not new though).
Also. How much stroke am I looking for out of the VNT? Are we talking 1/8" or 3/4"?
The stroke is around an inch.
Can you post a pic of your turbo? I don't see why a Hino-sourced turbo wouldn't work. Besides, that's one less supplier to go through, I bet a new one will be cheaper through Hino. For example, Kobelco uses Hino engines on some models. An outfit running an excavator nearby got a tankful of rusty, watery fuel and it wiped out the entire fuel system. Kobelco sold them Hino injectors at a ridiculous cost, and then sent them the wrong fuel pump. And they couldn't seem to find the correct one. We had every new fuel pump out of their boxes and spread on a counter this morning until we found the right one, and the effort was successful. They saved around $800 buying it from a Hino dealership.
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
That looks exactly the same. What's the suffix of your engine model (J08E- TC, TV, TA?), and the horsepower rating?
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
J08E-TE
5HMXH07-7JTA
230HP
Manufactured July 2005
5HMXH07-7JTA
230HP
Manufactured July 2005
As long as the motor inside the vnt does not look like this:
You should be able to get it working again.
You don't have to take the turbo off to get to that motor, there is a bracket that comes off:
Then take the 4 Allen head screws out and take the part off with the electronics.
There are 4 larger screws and 2 small Phillips screws to remove the motor. Once it is out, the linkage will move freely, it is spring loaded so when you push it down will spring back up.
If that motor is binding up, but the connector isn't burnt up, you can carefully pull the bearing off one side and sand down the inner side of the coil and clean the armature and it should turn easily again.
You should be able to get it working again.
You don't have to take the turbo off to get to that motor, there is a bracket that comes off:
Then take the 4 Allen head screws out and take the part off with the electronics.
There are 4 larger screws and 2 small Phillips screws to remove the motor. Once it is out, the linkage will move freely, it is spring loaded so when you push it down will spring back up.
If that motor is binding up, but the connector isn't burnt up, you can carefully pull the bearing off one side and sand down the inner side of the coil and clean the armature and it should turn easily again.
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
Bummer. Connector is burnt up on the VNT.
Nozzle actuator on the exhaust housing moves freely, so I don't think it was a problem of binding there which burnt up the motor. The stepper motor must have just fried.
Is there no place to buy just the stepper motor? It feels wrong to replace the entire turbo, when the problem is just this electric motor.
Also, wire continuity back to ECU checks out. Spent some time there this morning as well to try to ensure it was not what caused the problem in the first place (of course with wiring we all know the problem can stay hidden until it wants to return, so I hope that's not it).
Nozzle actuator on the exhaust housing moves freely, so I don't think it was a problem of binding there which burnt up the motor. The stepper motor must have just fried.
Is there no place to buy just the stepper motor? It feels wrong to replace the entire turbo, when the problem is just this electric motor.
Also, wire continuity back to ECU checks out. Spent some time there this morning as well to try to ensure it was not what caused the problem in the first place (of course with wiring we all know the problem can stay hidden until it wants to return, so I hope that's not it).
http://www.xsboostturbochargers.com...rbocharger-actuator-jideco-766758-7-766758-5/
I found this place after I fixed mine, might be worth a call.
I found this place after I fixed mine, might be worth a call.
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
Thanks @coalminer . I tried to email them, but their email bounces back. I'll call them on Monday.
How many miles are on the truck again? These turbos have finite lifespans. @coalminer is one of a few to successfully swap a VNT without calibration issues.
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
450k
I can't see there being any calibration issues with this particular vnt. When you remove the motor the linkage snaps all the way up, there is only so much travel in the linkage, if that was a stepper motor, there might be an issue, but there are 3 Hall effect sensors that let the brain know that the motor is moving and in which direction. When I first put mine back together you could tell it was "learning" but it didn't take long and it has been working fine ever since.
450k is about when mine died too, have 525 now still running strong.
Ive seen where an apparently good working vnt overstrokes when stuck on a random turbo.
I have a 2008 Hino 338 that has 12k miles on it and I bought it new. The engine check light came on and the engine won't run good. Went to the dealership, told me it's the turbocharger. They give me this excuse that it broke down because lack of using the truck. Full of BS. Still, I went forward with the replacing the turbocharger. I got a bill of $3,500'ish. Did they over charge me? This will be the last time I'm buying a Hino.
That price is within the realm of normal. And yes, the VNT linkage can rust and seize if the truck sits for a long time.
When I run into this scenario, I spray nickel antiseize on the vnt linkage and move it around by hand. Sometimes even hitting it lightly with a hammer. If this frees it, it may continue to work correctly for a long time.
The turbo costs around $2500, the installation kit around $250, and it takes around 3-4 hours to swap, depending on how many bolts break off.
cliffkujala
Rookie Expediter
Hi All. I've been away for a bit, but thought I'd update. I found a remanufactured VNT for the HINO J08E turbos. Bought and installed myself just before a round trip from Phoenix, AZ to Indianapolis, IN. Truck ran flawless. The VNT swap was easy. Installation took me all of 30minutes (disassembly took a bit longer since it was the first time I've done the job.) I don't think there are any calibration issues for this type of VNT. As @coalminer mentioned. The VNT has sensors inside, which teach the computer where it is, and it goes from there. I'd say any overstroking would be do to improper physical stop settings on the turbine control arm, not the VNT controller.
I purchased my reman VNT Controller here: http://www.superiorturbo.com/product.asp?Part_ID=32293
The unit itself is actually remanufactured by this company: http://e-reman.com/products/turbo-actuators/
If I have any problems, I'll try to report back here, but so far so good.
I purchased my reman VNT Controller here: http://www.superiorturbo.com/product.asp?Part_ID=32293
The unit itself is actually remanufactured by this company: http://e-reman.com/products/turbo-actuators/
If I have any problems, I'll try to report back here, but so far so good.