Goodbye "Don't ask. Don't tell."

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
If Obama gets his way, and he will, legislation will soon be crafted to end the decade old policy banning gays from openly serving in our nation's military.

Should Obama succeed in this effort to force the homosexual agenda on our troops, it would not be surprising to see a mass exodus of critically needed servicemen, both enlisted and officer corps, from the military in protest. Retention rates and re-enlistments could fall drastically.

Such a perverse experiment in social engineering, during a time of war, boggles the mind. One could hope if this new agenda is unstoppable, at least give US troops currently serving the option of early honorable discharge.

Millions of "conscientious objectors" should make their voices heard. Is this the change Democrats voted for?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I dunno. I think if you want to serve your country in the military, then you should be allowed to. You don't have to be straight to be a patriot.

But just like in the real world, this will take care of itself. In some areas of the military no one cares whether someone is gay or straight, and in other areas it's a big deal. I have a friend who was an Apache helicopter mechanic at Ft Campbell and while she wasn't "openly" gay, everybody on the base knew it. But she was also one of the best mechanics they had, and everybody knew that, too. In other areas of the military where the oil and water don't mix so well, it could get bad, like a lot of friendly fire incidents, gays being "volunteered" for roadside bomb detection detail, point man on a recon mission, lots of things.

There are uneasy tensions in the real world between straight and the not-so straight, and no piece of legislation is going to change that, in the real world or in the military. I think if you want to serve in the military, that's great. If you want to serve openly gay in the military, that's great, too. Stupid, tho.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This is yet another stupid plan from an ignorant leader.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I dunno. I think if you want to serve your country in the military, then you should be allowed to. You don't have to be straight to be a patriot.

But just like in the real world, this will take care of itself. In some areas of the military no one cares whether someone is gay or straight, and in other areas it's a big deal. I have a friend who was an Apache helicopter mechanic at Ft Campbell and while she wasn't "openly" gay, everybody on the base knew it. But she was also one of the best mechanics they had, and everybody knew that, too. In other areas of the military where the oil and water don't mix so well, it could get bad, like a lot of friendly fire incidents, gays being "volunteered" for roadside bomb detection detail, point man on a recon mission, lots of things.

There are uneasy tensions in the real world between straight and the not-so straight, and no piece of legislation is going to change that, in the real world or in the military. I think if you want to serve in the military, that's great. If you want to serve openly gay in the military, that's great, too. Stupid, tho.


Oh like the blacks were used in the WW1?

Like the big deal about women in the service...

shesh....being gay doesn't make him/her any less a patriot...besides enrollment is down....in some branches they need all the help they can get....
An educated young straight person isn't going to let this get in the way....unless they have a very homophobic support family....and IF it does bother him/her they ain't Marine material....!!
This ain't an Obama issue! it is a life issue. Period.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You know this is not a really big issue, it was expected and there are issues that will not make something that will be accepted 100%. The really big issue is the fact that something like 35% of the recruits entering the service are failed for insubordination in one form or another. No other time in our history has this number been that high, the closest was something like 10% during the early 70's. They have a serious problem with people going through basic not following the most basic orders or taking the punishments or having an attitude with authority. There are interesting stats with the complete break down of this, I wish they would make them all public other than the reject rate.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Turtle... I hear what you're saying. However, having served in the US Navy, I gotta tell you it will never work. For a multitude of reasons, this alternative lifestyle is too incendiary for integration in a military unit.

The US military is not Obama's laboratory to correct perceived injustices. This is just one example why we should never elect as president someone who has never served. They just don't get it. Life as a civilian is not congruent to military life.

While the homosexual lifestyle may be tolerated in the relative comfort of civilian life, it is a dealbreaker for military unit cohesion. Many, if not most, will rebel against taking orders from a flamboyant gay. For the first time in American history, the Commander-in-Chief would not enjoy the unquestioned loyalty of the troops.

To entertain such a notion during a time of war is preposterous.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Oh like the blacks were used in the WW1?

Like the big deal about women in the service...

shesh....being gay doesn't make him/her any less a patriot...besides enrollment is down....in some branches they need all the help they can get....
An educated young straight person isn't going to let this get in the way....unless they have a very homophobic support family....and IF it does bother him/her they ain't Marine material....!!
This ain't an Obama issue! it is a life issue. Period.
Thanks for the kind words, OVM. Tell me about your military experience so we can find a common frame of reference.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Like I said, this one will work itself out. If you want to serve as openly gay, you're stupid. It would be about as stupid as coming out while you're still playing in the NFL. There are times and places where you can be rainbow loud and proud, but most places within the military ain't it. Some places, sure, like a desk job at a base, but in combat or close quarters aboard ship? Probably not.

Other than someone not "having your back" when they otherwise would, I predict things like someone suing the military, in a civilian court, and winning, because they received an unsatisfactory fitness report and were thus not promoted when they should have been, and they'll claim discrimination based on sexual preference. Oh, it'll happen.

Whenever you force different groups of people together who would not otherwise be together, bad things happen. They always do.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Newp. Auditioned for, and was accepted into the Navy Band, but took a full ride scholarship instead after finding out I'd have to go through basic training just like real sailors do. :D

But I have served my country since then, in different ways.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Thanks for the kind words, OVM. Tell me about your military experience so we can find a common frame of reference.

Nothing there explicit to you buddy...same as Turtle...nada...

Boy Scouts count?

My point IS,,these men/women all have been exposed to the gay issues..It is nothing new..and it makes it worse IF they have homophobic parents...to support thier prejudices
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
This is old news....way before OBama....Just like the left to twist old news and make it sound like new news and fault the right.....:rolleyes:
 

are12

Expert Expediter
" Many, if not most, will rebel against taking orders from a flamboyant gay."

Now that is funny!!

Not all gays are "flamboyant" and I am sure the ones that are, would not enlist in the military.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
There are many, many fine ways to be a patriot. Many avenues of public service: teacher, fireman, policeman, just a plain taxpayer.

Let me reiterate, what transpires in civilian life is not transferrable to military life. It is a vastly different existence. The US military has its own jurisprudence system and its own laws contained in the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

The fact we can sit here as civilians and have this conversation free from tyranny is because of our military's sacrifice day in and day out. Under no conditions should we weaken their resolve or tamper with military discipline. Our very existence as a nation depends on this fragile civilian/military alliance. It is embarrassing having to explain this to adults.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
There are many, many fine ways to be a patriot. Many avenues of public service: teacher, fireman, policeman, just a plain taxpayer.

Let me reiterate, what transpires in civilian life is not transferrable to military life. It is a vastly different existence. The US military has its own jurisprudence system and its own laws contained in the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

The fact we can sit here as civilians and have this conversation free from tyranny is because of our military's sacrifice day in and day out. Under no conditions should we weaken their resolve or tamper with military discipline. Our very existence as a nation depends on this fragile civilian/military alliance. It is embarrassing having to explain this to adults.


Then the intolerance has to be breed out of the service....just like it was with Blacks and women!! And it starts at the top down to the drill sgts....all that re enforce the fear of gay/lesbians. Yes it is embarrassing ...to see the prejudice...to say our very existence is at danger to let gays serve.....nonsense....Did anyone trust a black to have thier back? how about a woman have your back...?
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Then the intolerance has to be breed out of the service....just like it was with Blacks and women!! And it starts at the top down to the drill sgts....all that re enforce the fear of gay/lesbians. Yes it is embarrassing ...to see the prejudice...to say our very existence is at danger to let gays serve.....nonsense....Did anyone trust a black to have thier back? how about a woman have your back...?

OVM... the fact we have a different point of view doesn't require you to hurl personal insults. If it continues, you will not fare well.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
OVM... the fact we have a different point of view doesn't require you to hurl personal insults. If it continues, you will not fare well.

Personal insults?.....that would infer more then one insult....and I can't for the life of me see the one....sorry

Please point out what you think is an insult and I'll try to explain...

Yes we have different views and I know exactly what your saying....my head ain't up my a$$ in the workings of the real world....
 
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