CA and AZ check points

zero3nine

Veteran Expediter
You realize how many violations you could "cover" with that crap? Yeah, the guards at Treblinka were just doing their jobs. Why can't you accept that fact?



The 9th amendment, for one. Second, to impede my travel without probable cause is to violate the security of my person, which I'm sure you can find in the Bill of Rights. Do you need me to send you a copy?

We--the people-- start with ALL rights and powers, and we cede a little bit to the government we created through the states, just enough for them to function. No more. And they don't get to expand their powers. Them, public servants; us, the public.

In case you hadn't noticed, we are in fact at war with Mexico. Our citizens are being kidnapped, raped and murdered. Our country is being invaded systematically and our way of life being destroyed, not only by Mexicans but Muslims. In times of war, such as we now find ourselves in, the several states do not need an assembly of Congress to declare war, but are absolutely permitted to use their well regulated militia to combat the invaders. We are, in fact, infested with pirates... those words actually appear in the constitution and are not inferred or assumed like yours.

I don't need you or anyone else to give me a copy of anything. I carry the constitution, bill of rights and my Bible everywhere I go. Its all right here in the Droid.

Its this same constitution that GUARANTEES me and everyone else a REPUBLICAN form of government. Maybe its you that should spend more time reading the documents you claim to know so well, instead of reading into it what you want to see... the language is quite plain.

fired at you from my Droideka
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
as a truck driver your under federal laws.that truck isnt your home,and can be searched at will.In all the years Ive been driving,only time i had a truck searched was in Arkansas,and that was in 1979.I asked if he had a warrant,answer was he would get one,but it might take all day,I had nothing to hide,so they searched,only problem was,i had to put everything bac,that took longer than the search.they might not have gone so deep if i would have let them in the first place
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Steve, the sleeper of your truck is your property and subject to the same search laws as your vehicle. They have to get a warrant. The federal laws for truck drivers don't go beyond the cab of the truck except with customs officers (notice the latest Minnesota issue and the 4th amendment). The sleeper is where you live, it is like that former van expediter who lives in a box under a freeway bridge, the cops have to actually have a reason to go into there and justify that reason to a higher authority.

IF they want to wait all day for a search warrant to look into a truck sleeper, I say enjoy the wait because they will have to first justify the warrant to a judge and then justify their time tying up the resources that day to search for something that most likely not be there.

NOW the only exception to any of this is the Customs Officers who have the right to search a vehicle for a number of things. If they are in Las Vegas, that's one thing but if you are sitting in their compound, they don't need that warrant.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Greg, I think that they are allowed into your sleeper without a warrant but ONLY to measure the thickness of your mattress. If I remember correctly it must be a minimum of 4" thick. They are not allowed to open doors/drawers etc.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I don't know about that. My understanding is they can check the sleeper equipment only after they get permission, it is still off limits.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't know about that. My understanding is they can check the sleeper equipment only after they get permission, it is still off limits.

I heard that on the "LandLine" program the other night. Had a retired DOT dude talking about it. The conversation was about the MN ruling and the DOT dude thought it was a correct ruling. He is the one that said about that mattress law being on the books.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
zero3 wrote:

Its this same constitution that GUARANTEES me and everyone else a REPUBLICAN form of government

So does that mean that all of the DEMOCRATS are unconstitutional????

I believe that the Constitution gives us a "REPUBLIC" form of government verses a "Democracy" that is "if we can keep it....Which we are doing a pizz poor job of doing as some are content to give up rights "here and there"....so that they can "feel" safe..or for the better of the whole....:rolleyes:
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
There is a mattress standard which isn't really about mattresses but safety and there is a "seat belt" standard for the sleeper, both are visual inspections where they can see in the sleeper from the cab without entering it to see if you have the 'right' stuff.

The standard for the mattress has to do with bouncing against the boards and the ability to sleep during truck movement. One reason I removed my upper bunk was because I could be cited for not having a mattress on that bunk, even though no one rides with me.
 

zero3nine

Veteran Expediter
So does that mean that all of the DEMOCRATS are unconstitutional????

I believe that the Constitution gives us a "REPUBLIC" form of government verses a "Democracy" that is "if we can keep it....Which we are doing a pizz poor job of doing as some are content to give up rights "here and there"....so that they can "feel" safe..or for the better of the whole....:rolleyes:

Read the constitution and bill of rights and you tell me. I can tell from your language that you haven't read it.

The framers of our constitution and our founding fathers did not intend to form a democratic government. Mob rule is absolutely unconstitutional and detrimental to the well being of our people's republic.

Everybody likes to throw the constitution around as if they have studied it, when in fact most have only a basic idea of what it contains.



fired at you from my Droideka
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
LOL you can tell i have never read it?? LOL...I'll tell you want, my truck # is right there on my tagline, it is also on my truck..look for me, I'll be happy to hand you my pocket copy that is "highlighted", dog earred pages and the cover taped on that is right here in my truck and not in my droid....

zero3 wrote:

The framers of our constitution and our founding fathers did not intend to form a democratic government. Mob rule is absolutely unconstitutional and detrimental to the well being of our people's republic.

Hmmm kind of what I said:

I believe that the Constitution gives us a "REPUBLIC" form of government verses a "Democracy"

You do know the meaning of and understand the use of the word "verses" as use above...right???

Oh and while In have posted it a few times, I can again...you can get a free copy of the Consitution and Bill of Rights by calling the Rutherford Institue at 1-800-225-1791 or e-mailng them at:

[email protected] or www.rutherford.org
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I like the ones who think a Representative Republic isn't a form of Democracy. You know, the ones who say we don't live in a Democracy, even though we do. They don't understand the differences between a Consensus Democracy, a Direct Democracy, and a Representative Democracy, and don't understand that the form of government in the US is a Constitutional Republic in which majority rule is tempered by Representative Democracy.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Turtle wrote:

I like the ones who think a Representative Republic isn't a form of Democracy. You know, the ones who say we don't live in a Democracy, even though we do. They don't understand the differences between a Consensus Democracy, a Direct Democracy, and a Representative Democracy, and don't understand that the form of government in the US is a Constitutional Republic in which majority rule is tempered by Representative Democracy.

Yeap all true, the "seperation of powers" in our Consitution is SUPPOSE to be the control to keep the "majorty" from being in "total control"...or acting as a "ruler"....
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I like the ones who think a Representative Republic isn't a form of Democracy. You know, the ones who say we don't live in a Democracy, even though we do. They don't understand the differences between a Consensus Democracy, a Direct Democracy, and a Representative Democracy, and don't understand that the form of government in the US is a Constitutional Republic in which majority rule is tempered by Representative Democracy.

But, isn't a true Democracy where the people vote on everything, rather than just voting in representatives? That would seem to be a substantial difference.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
But, isn't a true Democracy where the people vote on everything, rather than just voting in representatives? That would seem to be a substantial difference.
Well, I guess you'd have to first define what a "true" democracy is, since all forms of Democracy are true democracies. Sounds like you're describing a Direct Democracy, where it's a strict majority rule on everything. And it is indeed a substantial difference from both a Representative Democracy and a Consensus Democracy.
 

zero3nine

Veteran Expediter
LOL you can tell i have never read it?? LOL...I'll tell you want, my truck # is right there on my tagline, it is also on my truck..look for me, I'll be happy to hand you my pocket copy that is "highlighted", dog earred pages and the cover taped on that is right here in my truck and not in my droid....

zero3 wrote:



Hmmm kind of what I said:



You do know the meaning of and understand the use of the word "verses" as use above...right???

Oh and while In have posted it a few times, I can again...you can get a free copy of the Consitution and Bill of Rights by calling the Rutherford Institue at 1-800-225-1791 or e-mailng them at:

[email protected] or The Rutherford Institute : Dedicated to the Defense of Civil Liberties and Human Rights

I know the use of the word "versus", yes I do. I choose not to mangle the english language when I engage in debate.

I think it's funny that you find fault with me using electronic media rather than paper when I'm on the road. By the way, were you using a mechanical typewriter when you misspelled all those words?

I don't care what your truck number is, I don't really need to hang around a truck stop and argue with somebody who has arrived to a battle of wits woefully unarmed.

Maybe your old dog-eared edition of the constitution has some of the words faded out, obscured or otherwise obliterated, but you seem to lack fundamental understanding here.

In the 18th century, if you called somebody a democrat, you would likely be challenged to a duel and find yourself shot to death in the street. Think about that. It was a different time, and circumstances were likewise very different. What is really amazing is the depth of forethought and premeditation that went into the actual wording as these visionaries did what is, by all accounts, a phenomenal job of predicting future history and anticipating the wants and needs of a civilization which has progressed far beyond anything they could have possibly imagined.

And yet, this document serves us today as well as it did then. Now, if we can just keep the filthy progressive liberals from destroying it, we might just avoid the armed revolution which will undoubtedly be required to rid us of their influence.

Which side will you be on? I know exactly where I'll be, and what I'll be doing. The time to be prepared for upheaval is upon us.

Oh and by the way, I keep my important paper books and documents sealed in Pelican cases with silica packs in a safe place. In case you were unaware, books are rapidly going the way of 8-track tapes. I'd suggest if you want the future generations of your family to have available to them the actual history of this great nation, secure those items now as I have.

They're already talking about replacing textbooks with iPads, so that they can be "updated" on the fly...

By who? From where? These things should scare you more than any terrorist threat or possibility of ground invasion. Infiltration of the young mind is already underway, and it's a full scale war.
 

zero3nine

Veteran Expediter
Well, I guess you'd have to first define what a "true" democracy is, since all forms of Democracy are true democracies. Sounds like you're describing a Direct Democracy, where it's a strict majority rule on everything. And it is indeed a substantial difference from both a Representative Democracy and a Consensus Democracy.

Our government has morphed into what it is by it's very own machinations. Communism has risen in other great societies in the same way, under the guise of "democracy" or mob rule. The masses are given just enough of the right kind of education to lull the majority into complete dependency and complacency.

It is then, and only then, the very fiber of a once great society crumbles from within and falls to despotism and eventually is eaten alive from without by its predatory neighbors, resentful of having existed in its shadow for so long.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
In case you hadn't noticed, we are in fact at war with Mexico. Our citizens are being kidnapped, raped and murdered. Our country is being invaded systematically and our way of life being destroyed, not only by Mexicans but Muslims. In times of war, such as we now find ourselves in, the several states do not need an assembly of Congress to declare war, but are absolutely permitted to use their well regulated militia to combat the invaders.

No, we're not at war with Mexico, or with anyone else, officially. There is some ugliness on the border, and yes, some Americans are caught in the crossfire. But we're not at war with them in any way, shape, form, or fashion. And yes, Congress does need to declare war for one to exist. That, btw, is found in that Constitution-thingy we've been mentioning.

We are, in fact, infested with pirates... those words actually appear in the constitution and are not inferred or assumed like yours.
To equate our current situation with piracy, especially the Barbary pirates, is ridiculous. And if you had a button that would eliminate every condition or situation we have today, especially our liberties, that exist because the are inferred from the totality of the constitution, and you pressed it, you'd be looking for the undo button in short order.

Since you bring up the Bible, let's look at a parallel. The truth of the trinity is nowhere taught didactically in the Bible. But we know of it because of what we can piece together from numerous passages in scripture. Since we know, didactically from this passage and that passage and this one over here, we learn X by putting them together. If they're all true, then so is the trinity.

Likewise, by putting the 4th, 9th, and 10th amendments together--that is, if they're all true--then the government's agents have to get a warrant before they may search me or my property, have to have probable cause just to get the warrant, and may not violate the security of my person by impeding my travel, via detaining me longer than it takes to write a traffic summons while they go get it (that's been confirmed by SCOTUS). If they bring me to a stop to interact with me a bit to satisfy themselves that I'm not transporting illegal aliens in from Mexico (why they'd use the interstate system when they know there are checkpoints there is a little puzzling; I guess only the stupid ones get caught this way) and bing-bang-boom I'm on my way again, stationary for a matter of seconds, that doesn't particularly offend me or the Founding Fathers, from what I can tell. Going beyond that, absent probable cause, is another matter. And I don't see exceptions in that Constitution-thingy for times of war of border exclusion zones.


I don't need you or anyone else to give me a copy of anything. I carry the constitution, bill of rights and my Bible everywhere I go. Its all right here in the Droid.
Maybe your Droid-stitution has been "updated on the fly," as another post-er mentioned.

the language is quite plain.
It is, indeed, and I don't see the exceptions to the Bill of Rights you seem to find.
 
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zero3nine

Veteran Expediter
No, we're not at war with Mexico, or with anyone else, officially. There is some ugliness on the border, and yes, some Americans are caught in the crossfire. But we're not at war with them in any way, shape, form, or fashion. And yes, Congress does need to declare war for one to exist. That, btw, is found in that Constitution-thingy we've been mentioning.

To equate our current situation with piracy, especially the Barbary pirates, is ridiculous. And if you had a button that would eliminate every condition or situation we have today, especially our liberties, that exist because the are inferred from the totality of the constitution, and you pressed it, you'd be looking for the undo button in short order.

Since you bring up the Bible, let's look at a parallel. The truth of the trinity is nowhere taught didactically in the Bible. But we know of it because of what we can piece together from numerous passages in scripture. Since we know, didactically from this passage and that passage and this one over here, we learn X by putting them together. If they're all true, then so is the trinity.

Likewise, by putting the 4th, 9th, and 10th amendments together--that is, if they're all true--then the government's agents have to get a warrant before they may search me or my property, have to have probable cause just to get the warrant, and may not violate the security of my person by impeding my travel, via detaining me longer than it takes to write a traffic summons while they go get it (that's been confirmed by SCOTUS). If they bring me to a stop to interact with me a bit to satisfy themselves that I'm not transporting illegal aliens in from Mexico (why they'd use the interstate system when they know there are checkpoints there is a little puzzling; I guess only the stupid ones get caught this way) and bing-bang-boom I'm on my way again, stationary for a matter of seconds, that doesn't particularly offend me or the Founding Fathers, from what I can tell. Going beyond that, absent probable cause, is another matter. And I don't see exceptions in that Constitution-thingy for times of war of border exclusion zones.


Maybe your Droid-stitution has been "updated on the fly," as another post-er mentioned.

It is, indeed, and I don't see the exceptions to the Bill of Rights you seem to find.

Read it again... try retaining what you read.

1. Congress does not need to declare war for the states to defend themselves.

2. That was me that mentioned updating on the fly... if you were truly paying attention, you would know that, and I doubt anyone can "update" a locked PDF on my SD card.

3. We are in the midst of a full scale ground invasion from multiple enemies. State authorities are well within their rights to stop people near border areas and inquire as to just exactly what they are doing, who else is in the vehicle, etc. If you are doing nothing wrong they WILL NOT detain you for any unreasonable amount of time .... given that you comply with their requests. Federal authorities must be granted the rights to do so on behalf of the state. Gray area there. To those who would argue this, I too would ask what you have to hide.

4. Exemptions... take a look at the 9th amendment, you brought it up yourself. For the mere fact that a perceived right is not specifically enumerated within the constitution or bill of rights, doesn't mean it doesn't exist... that much is true. HOWEVER these are exceptional times with gravely extenuating circumstances, and concessions must be made for the overall good of everyone concerned. The 9th amendment is very deliberately a two way street.

Best of luck to you. Maybe we will see you on YouTube getting beaten for standing up for your principles at a border checkpoint.

For two years straight I did a nightly run from Escondido California to Yuma Arizona. I-8 is locally known as the "Human Highway " to border patrol agents. The amount of IR gear and clandestine observation posts out there is staggering. It is common to those travelling that corridor to see agents driving completely blacked out with goggles, often coming down the shoulder straight at You in the wrong direction and suddenly veering off the pavement. I went into the bathroom at a rest area at the top of the pass one morning about 3am and found approximately 25 migrants huddled inside.... men, women and children who stared at me like deer caught in the headlights. I backed out of there with my hand on my pistol, got back in my truck, and hauled arse away from there as fast as my truck could move... You never know how far off the Coyote might be. As soon as I got a signal on my phone I reported what I had found by calling the California highway patrol. At the next checkpoint I pulled over and gave a formal statement and they sent a detachment to investigate.

Those people were huddling for warmth as it was mid december and it gets severely windy in that pass. Every single one of them represents a threat to my life, liberty, happiness and the well being of my family.

Yes we are at war. I don't care what you choose to call it. I call it the way I see it.

I have very little love for our government, but it is still the government of the greatest country ever conceived on this planet. It is my government and I will take the bad with the good. How about this, why don't you sneak into Mexico and see what happens when you get caught? They have some of the harshest immigration laws anywhere. Just ask any one of the many thousands of Guatemalan inmates in the prisons in the southern part of Mexico ....

fired at you from my Droideka
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Read it again... try retaining what you read.

1. Congress does not need to declare war for the states to defend themselves.
That's not the same as war.

2. That was me that mentioned updating on the fly... if you were truly paying attention, you would know that, and I doubt anyone can "update" a locked PDF on my SD card.
That was said tongue-in-cheek.

3. We are in the midst of a full scale ground invasion from multiple enemies.

A ridiculous assertion. Not just wrong, ridiculous. You see tanks on the evening news, uniformed troops, jet fighters? I'm not talking about a stray APC there because a drug lord bribed a general. But there's no full-scale ground invasion. If there were, Congress would declare war and send the marines.

State authorities are well within their rights to stop people near border areas and inquire as to just exactly what they are doing, who else is in the vehicle, etc.

No, they're not. They cannot stop anybody absent reasonable, articulable, particularized suspicion. And that's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.

Federal authorities must be granted the rights to do so on behalf of the state.

That's your opinion, but one based on your feelings, not law. What do you say we stick with the Founding Fathers on this?

To those who would argue this, I too would ask what you have to hide.

Ah, someone's been Hannitized. I recognize it anywhere. But you're proving my point.

4. Exemptions... take a look at the 9th amendment, you brought it up yourself. For the mere fact that a perceived right is not specifically enumerated within the constitution or bill of rights, doesn't mean it doesn't exist... that much is true. HOWEVER these are exceptional times with gravely extenuating circumstances, and concessions must be made for the overall good of everyone concerned.

You concede all of your rights that you want to concede. Leave mine alone. None of the amendments end with "unless we decide otherwise at the time."

The 9th amendment is very deliberately a two way street.

No, actually, it's not, and as an assertion, that doesn't even make sense in any context within this thread. Maybe you have it confused with another amendment.

Best of luck to you. Maybe we will see you on YouTube getting beaten for standing up for your principles at a border checkpoint.

So far, I haven't objected much to the checkpoints I've been through. So far, they've all been just a matter of hearing me speak English, and once they wanted to look in the back. Being against illegal immigration and drug smuggling, I allowed it. All of them took a matter of seconds. But if they really wanted to jack me up or do a thorough search, I'd object unless they could articulate some serious reasonable suspicion. Constitutionally, they'd have to get a warrant and couldn't detain me any longer than it takes to write a traffic citation. They wouldn't see it that way, of course, and then the fight would be on. So you certainly could see me getting tased or otherwise illegally brutalized.

Again, where do you find the principle of border exclusion zones in the Constitution?

For two years straight I did a nightly run from Escondido California to Yuma Arizona... I went into the bathroom at a rest area at the top of the pass one morning about 3am and found approximately 25 migrants huddled inside.... men, women and children who stared at me like deer caught in the headlights. I backed out of there with my hand on my pistol, got back in my truck, and hauled arse away from there as fast as my truck could move...

Sounds like a reasonable reaction, except maybe for the last part. Driving away at a normal speed would have done it, I'm sure.

Those people were huddling for warmth as it was mid december and it gets severely windy in that pass. Every single one of them represents a threat to my life, liberty, happiness and the well being of my family.

Now you're being a but dramatic, aren't you? Think about it a little more calmly. Skip Hannity for a week, think about it again, and see if you feel a little calmer.

Yes we are at war. I don't care what you choose to call it. I call it the way I see it.

You're certainly entitled to your feeling, but you're using you're feeling to negate the Bill of Rights. If you can do it, then so can Barak, and Nancy, and all the other left wing loonies out there. So maybe we'd better stick to cold, hard facts. There's no war.

How about this, why don't you sneak into Mexico and see what happens when you get caught? They have some of the harshest immigration laws anywhere. Just ask any one of the many thousands of Guatemalan inmates in the prisons in the southern part of Mexico ....

So I've read, but it really doesn't have anything to do with this discussion.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
"Travel from State to State? No papers? No papers" Not in the United States of America. I can't even fish on the Straights of Detroit without carrying my "papers" with me. :mad: Free country my hind end.

Degenerate reprobate Doug Stanhope had this to say about that:

(Here's the video if you prefer to watch it. Bad language in the video:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOQhPd2Xh4

"They say if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but if you teach a man to fish.... then he's gotta get a fishing license, but he doesn't have any money. So he's got to get a job and get into the social security system and pay taxes, and now you're gonna audit the poor **********, cuz' he's not really good with math. So he'll pull the IRS van up to your house, and he'll take all your ****. He'll take your black velvet Elvis and your Batman toothbrush, and your penis pump, and that all goes up for auction with the burden of proof on you because you forgot to carry the one, cuz' you were just worried about eating a ******* fish, and you couldn't even cook the fish cuz' you needed a permit for an open flame. Then the health department is going to start asking you a lot of questions about where are you going to dump the scales and the guts. 'This is not a sanitary environment', and ladies and gentlemen if you get sick of it all at the end of the day... not even legal to kill yourself in this country... You were born free, you got ****** out of half of it, and you wave a flag celebrating it."

Fourth of July, there we are, listening to that godawful Lee Greenwood song, celebrating freedom we have only on paper.
 
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