Block heater to House batteries?

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Ok folks, was having a discussion, and a hypothetical question came up.. so I thought I'd ask some of the more technical detail folks here :)


Scenario: Diesel van, sitting in below freezing temps, needs plugged in for at least an hour or so before starting to get block warmed up for easier starting. Would it be possible to run an extention cord in to your house bank to warm the block. How many batteries would you need hooked up to warm the block before draining those batteries.

The question came up because of wanting to possibly stay at a motel when cold, but no plug in availible. The thought was, a couple hrs before ya wanted to leave, flip the inverter on, and warm the engine.

Thanks!

Me
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
Ok folks, was having a discussion, and a hypothetical question came up.. so I thought I'd ask some of the more technical detail folks here :)


Scenario: Diesel van, sitting in below freezing temps, needs plugged in for at least an hour or so before starting to get block warmed up for easier starting. Would it be possible to run an extention cord in to your house bank to warm the block. How many batteries would you need hooked up to warm the block before draining those batteries.

The question came up because of wanting to possibly stay at a motel when cold, but no plug in availible. The thought was, a couple hrs before ya wanted to leave, flip the inverter on, and warm the engine.

Thanks!

Me


"Battery bank or if you have a generator plug that up for about 45 minutes.
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
If we had generator, no question :)

Batteries only.

Dale

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I m sure turtle could give you the numbers and facts. It will work if you have enough battery and inverter, you could run anything electrical as long as you have enough power to plug it into.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The avg block heater draws between 6-8 amps and is rated between 600 and 1000 watts....you can go from there. As Xiggi said, it wiuld depend on the number of batteries , their size and the size of the inverter...it will do it, but for how long is the question....
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well 6 to 8 amps at what voltage?

120

SO at 600 watts is a little short for 6 amps, that's 720 watts.

BUT I digress...

Inverter power is needed for say 720 watts. That means you will need about 60 amps. IF it is one like I have, 1100 watts will draw 90 amps.

Hope that answers the basic question.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Scenario: Diesel van, sitting in below freezing temps, needs plugged in for at least an hour or so before starting to get block warmed up for easier starting. Would it be possible to run an extention cord in to your house bank to warm the block. How many batteries would you need hooked up to warm the block before draining those batteries.
Short answer - Bad idea, high cost, don't do it.

Anything down to about 4° F and glow plugs should be all that's needed if you have treated fuel. Engine block heaters are generally in the 1000 Watt range, though they can be as low as 400 Watts (generally more for an oil pan heater) or 1800 Watts for extreme temperatures. But for a 1000 Watt heater, it'll draw 8.33 amps at 120 volts AC, which converts to 92 amps at 12 volts DC, including the 10% loss for the inverter.

A 92 amp draw is a very high amp draw off a battery bank. It's bad enough when it's a microwave that's in use for 5 or 10 minutes a day, but it's brutal when used for an hour or five (it'll be at least one hour or two hours to properly warm the engine, with four or five being what is really needed for below zero temps). But assuming only one hour and not a minute more, that 92 amp draw becomes considerably higher with the Peukert Effect figured in, depending on the battery bank size.

Also, there's the factor of whether the batteries are marine "deep cycle" hybrids, like the Walmart batteries, which are absolutely not suited to very high amp draws of even a few minutes, or if they are true deep cycle batteries like Trojan wet cells or AGM batteries.

If the 125 amp hour hybrid Walmart batteries (Everstart Maxx) are used, you'll need at a minimum of three of them, for 375 amp hours. A 92 amp draw from a 375 amp hour battery bank becomes a 136.93 amp draw due to the Peukert Effect. From a 500 amp hour bank (four batteries) 92 amps become 127.42 amps. (even a 1000 amp hour bank, and 92 amps becomes a 107.15 amp draw). So you can see these are significant amp draws, and they will kill a hybrid battery's thinner lead plates after just a few uses. They likelihood of three of these batteries lasting an entire winter is slim.

If you use true deep cycle batteries which can actually handle the high amp draws required, the batteries will last, assuming they are properly and fully recharged after each use, the Peukert Effect still makes the amp draws the same brutal draws.

It's just not cost effective at all. You'll have to spend between $400 and $600 on batteries and connecting hardware, rather than spending a fraction of that on 200 feet of extension cord. For that matter, a cheap generator is far more cost effective, and more energy efficient.

Batteries are not a good option at all for any kind of resistive heat application for extended periods, longer than a few minutes. A microwave, hair dryer, vacuum cleaner, these are fine for a few minutes at a time, but anything longer than 10 minutes and you are just killing the batteries.

Another option that will probably be way more trouble than it's worth is one of the 12-volt electric blankets (Road Pro) that pulls between 4-5 amps, which is a trolling motor type of amp draw, and you can cover the engine with the blanket and leave it plugged into the house bank all night. A single 12-volt Walmart battery could handle that, but two would be better for longer battery life.
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Thanks Turtle, that's what I was figuring, it would just be too hard on the batteries. I think a Craigslist generator will be much more effective :)

Dale
 

BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
I'm fairly sure one of the "Espar" heaters will also heat the Diesel. I have two Ford Diesel's and two hours plugged into my outside house outlet wont make any difference when it's in the teens at all. Both rigs will start with out the help, but I'm fairly certain it's a lot easier on the engine when it's warm.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The Espar Hydronic (as opposed to the Airtronic) is for engine warming. For a van, the Hydronic 4 or Hydronic 5 is what you need. For a truck you'd need a Hydronic 5 or maybe a larger one. If you live way up north where it's routinely below zero for most of the winter, then a Hydronic engine coolant heater is a very kewl thing to have. It not only keeps the engine warm, it also pre-heats the cab area through the heater vents in the dash. Heating started by timer, radio or remote control.

The Hydronics run on the same minimal fuel and current consumption that the Airtronics do, and cost about the same.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well if you start the engine when you plug the block heater into the inverter then the alternator can juice things up to offset the drain. :confused: :rolleyes: :D
 

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Well if you start the engine when you plug the block heater into the inverter then the alternator can juice things up to offset the drain. :confused: :rolleyes: :D

Wow, I never thought of that... lol.


Me


Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
Ok folks, was having a discussion, and a hypothetical question came up.. so I thought I'd ask some of the more technical detail folks here :)


Scenario: Diesel van, sitting in below freezing temps, needs plugged in for at least an hour or so before starting to get block warmed up for easier starting. Would it be possible to run an extention cord in to your house bank to warm the block. How many batteries would you need hooked up to warm the block before draining those batteries.

The question came up because of wanting to possibly stay at a motel when cold, but no plug in availible. The thought was, a couple hrs before ya wanted to leave, flip the inverter on, and warm the engine.

Thanks!

Me

There was a time,I would be at a motel,and plug my block heater into a wall socket in my room.I left it there all night
If you want to see if your block heater is working,before you plug it in,check out you electic meter on the side of your house,and watch the dials go around,then plug in the extension cord,go back to the glass bowl, now watch the dials go crazy.If they don't,your block heater isn't working
I'mnot sure if I would plug into a bank of bateries,an hour would probably kill all of them.
I live in an apartment.THey have a tool shed for their television and internet system.If I keep my truck at home,I plug it in there,but usually,I just keep it at the garage that does my work.If it doesn't start,they are there to help
 
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