Turtle would you not agree some in the scientific world have lessened the integrity of the field due to the pursuit of grant money?
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Bill Nye / Ken Ham debate Creationism
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Turtle would you not agree some in the scientific world have lessened the integrity of the field due to the pursuit of grant money?
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No, not really, because the scientific field at large is self-correcting, because of the scientific method. If you look at small sections of the big picture (for example, human-caused climate change) you can genuinely see integrity issues, because conclusions are reached based on belief, not on the scientific method. There's no question the climate is changing, observation tells us that quite clearly, but there is as of yet no definitive observations, or predictions that have come true, to point to humans as being the primary or even significant cause.
But that's always been the case in science going back to the Earth-centered universe, where because of grant money, politics and other factors, people ignored evidence, or crafted evidence to suit their purpose.
For example, scientists worked on elaborate mechanical models that showed how the sun and everything else out there rotated around us, including a mechanical explanation for the bizarre movements of Mars. It wasn't about getting to the truth, it was about finding a way to satisfy those who paid your way, or to satisfy the needs and wishes of political and religious powers.
But in the end, scientific integrity wins. Individual scientists are certainly discredited, the way many climate change scientists already have been and others likely will be, because the scientific method is both sound and unforgiving.
The big bang theory is another example. It's a radical departure from every other creation story that has ever been told. Someone didn't just dream it up because they believed it really, really hard. Observation told them the universe isn't static and unchanging the way people believed. So the question becomes "Why this, then?" Why is it happening, how could it have happened?
Ideas and theories are produced to explain what is observed, and then the predictions of those ideas and theories are tested. The predictions that are true support one theory or another, the predictions that fail are dismissed, and eventually you're left with is what works, what is true, testable and replicable, no matter how strongly you believe in one thing or the other, no matter how much grant money someone was given to favor one theory over the other. The correct theory wins.
That's the integrity of science, the scientific method, despite the lack of integrity of some of the scientists.
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There have been scientists who compromised their own integrity for grant money [or the glory of publishing, or awards, whatever], but the only thing they ruined by it was their own reputation - their work is discarded when it is found to have been falsified. And with so many other scientists checking and rechecking, it does get found out.
Evolution and the Big Bang are two entirely different theories, and evolution has been confirmed by more evidence, simply due to the technical difficulties of earth vs the universe. Not to mention the cost.
When you know that the human body operates via electrochemical reactions, it's not such a great stretch to believe that it began with such a reaction, IMO. Nowhere near the stretch it takes to believe it was created in 7 days, and that it was correctly known thousands of years ago, when people thought the sun revolved around the flat earth, and Galileo was tortured by the Church for not believing it.
Astrophysicists have been steadily collecting evidence that confirms the Big Bang theory too - all but the very first micro second. The major hypotheses have been confirmed for several decades already.
It's just a matter of time, lol.
This is the problem...being in a House Committee ..he should be putting is beliefs aside be open to FACTS,SCIENCE ...this dough bag is making decision/regulations based on his beliefs that in don't believe in ...leave your beliefs @ the door ...too many of these religious wakos getting into office ...
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Since when was ANY elected official, from either party, cared about facts? Obama sure don't. He just makes up stuff all day long and the press goes along with it. There are wackos of all flavors in office. Including "junk science" duds to go along with the religious wacko types.
Maverick
Seasoned Expediter
Cheri, The Church does not ask women to be submissive....anymore than man is to be submissive to the wife. What those submissions entail, is the same as the difference between a man and a woman. The equality comes with knowing the difference, applying it to everyday life, and creating the harmony intended with the command. One needs to remember who's idea it was to create a competition.....rather than following the harmonious nature of the natural order, when mutual respect for each gender is recognized.
As for who created what? Who's to say how God did these things? (given a belief that He did) and perhaps creation and science combined to create this mess we currently occupy. And why is it such a mess? Because there are those who wish to control everything, in world which does not belong to them alone. Science would have you believe that a handful of monkey's climbed to the top, and now posses the right to control everything. It's not just greed, it's also the power to be like God. I find it quite amusing, really.
Not here to defend, exhort, or judge. Time lapse video displays only a small section of our world, and whether one believes it was God created, or banged in......man is certainly doing his best to destroy it.
http://vimeo.com/35396305
As for who created what? Who's to say how God did these things? (given a belief that He did) and perhaps creation and science combined to create this mess we currently occupy. And why is it such a mess? Because there are those who wish to control everything, in world which does not belong to them alone. Science would have you believe that a handful of monkey's climbed to the top, and now posses the right to control everything. It's not just greed, it's also the power to be like God. I find it quite amusing, really.
Not here to defend, exhort, or judge. Time lapse video displays only a small section of our world, and whether one believes it was God created, or banged in......man is certainly doing his best to destroy it.
http://vimeo.com/35396305
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The Church might not, but the Bible sure does. So does the Quran, and the Torah, and every other major religious text. Have you not actually read the Bible?
From 8000 BC to 600 AD the role of women in different religions remained fairly minimal, varying only between communities, with society during this time being highly patriarchal and women were seen as subordinate to men. As various religions were invented, they all kept the status quo with regard to women being subservient (and slavery and a bunch of other societal issues, because you can't upset the apple cart tooo much and still expect people to hop on for the ride).
When Confucianism was invented, the Chinese moralists saw orderly, patriarchal families as the foundations for a stable society (sound familiar?). It's a system still in place. 200 years after Confucius died, Ban Zhao, a women, wrote a short but seminal book breaking down the role and status of women under Confucianism, and in society in general. Christian women even today write the same sort of stuff.
Hinduism incorporated the same patriarchal views, where women were expected to direct affairs within their homes (cleaning, raising children, tending to husband, cooking) but no where else, and hey had no public authority, couldn't inherit property, and were not permitted to remarry after their husband's death.
Buddhism arose out of Hinduism, so the same patriarchal values were carried along.
Christianity, just like the other religions, continued to treat women in the same way they did before Christianity was invented or was spread there, subordinately. Today there are articles all over the Internet that tell women how and why they should be subservient to their man. Some of them laughingly try to rationalize it, in an attempt to reconcile Christianity and feminism, as no rational person can seriously argue that feminism and religiosity can coexist. If you claim to be a religious person, you are not a feminist, nor if you believe men and women are inherently equals can you claim to believe in the fundamental beliefs of any religion. There is no religion yet invented that presents men and women as exact equals in the manner of feminism.
It's probably a mess because they read in some book that everything was created just for them.
The Bible tells you in plain language that you have dominion and control over the animals, and that plants are yours to do with as you will. And you blame attempts to control everything on monkeys? What is this religious obsession with monkeys? And with sex? Why are Christians so obsessed with monkeys and sex?
" Why are Christians so obsessed with monkeys and sex?"
I know LOTS of Christians and not one is obsessed with either sex or monkeys. You must know some really strange dudes.
I know LOTS of Christians and not one is obsessed with either sex or monkeys. You must know some really strange dudes.
I refuse to believe you are that obtuse.
Dudes and dudettes both, yes. I call them Christians.
You are too serious, you should be more light and airy, like ME! Easy going, non-confrontational, relaxed.
Besides, I am not a triangle, I am more round.
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I'm at elast trying to have an intelligent discussion ans further the dialog, rather than trying to derail or end it.
LOL!!! I REALLY need to read closer! I was just trying to figure out what "elast" meant, in other than a medical term.
This "discussion? will go on till time ends and few, if any, will every change their minds, or even learn, from another. It is endless, and for the most part, fruitless.
I have my beliefs and you yours. We all do. Few are even willing to learn or even try to understand other's beliefs, let alone change.
My self, I don't give a flying flip what anyone else believes in this regard. I leave them alone and only want the same. That goes for all sides of the argument. IF everyone would at least go that far, we would be miles ahead of where we are today.
Obtuse is an angle, not a triangle.
One of the angles in a triangle can be obtuse, but not the entire triangle.
Obtuse Angle Examples
Definition of Obtuse Triangle
Believe me, more than once have I been bent more than 90 degrees! It ALWAYS hurt too! But now I am far more round than angular.
Believe me, more than once have I been bent more than 90 degrees! It ALWAYS hurt too! But now I am far more round than angular.
And as usual, someone who has nothing to say [nothing on topic, anyway] WILL derail it. How dare we have a conversation in which thoughts are expressed and debated in a grown up manner?! And nobody points out how terrible Obama is?! And there's absolutely zero puerile humor?!
No - somebody won't allow that to continue at all. Sigh.
It's a typo. I apologize for it. It should read "At least".
Just because you don't want to discuss it, or can't, doesn't mean it's fruitless for those who do. And even if it is only a few who learn from it, then the discussion is for those few.
The difference is, I have taken the time and effort to make mine known on this subject in this thread. You have not.
Yes, I get it, you're one of the few. I understand that.
If anything you just typed were enven remotely true, then why are you trying to hijack this thread with nonsensical comments, instead of either adding to the dialog, or by simply ignoring the conversation altogether?
Obtuse is...not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.