Barack Obama 'overruled top legal advice'

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
BBC News

Barack Obama overruled the advice of administration lawyers in deciding the US could continue participating in the Libya conflict without congressional approval, The New York Times reports.

The White House insists the president did not need congressional approval to authorise US support for Nato's mission, because the military campaign is limited in scope.

Critics argue the action violates a Vietnam War-era law limiting military action without congressional approval to 60 days.

The newspaper report said Pentagon General Counsel Jeh Johnson and acting head of the justice department's Office of Legal Counsel Caroline Krass had advised Mr Obama that the US involvement in the Libya air campaign constituted "hostilities".

But the US president opted to follow the advice of White House counsel Robert Bauer and state department legal adviser Harold Koh, who argued the US involvement fell short of "hostilities", the paper said.

US presidents can override the legal conclusions of the Office of Legal Counsel, but it is very rare for that to happen, analysts say.

Drone 'hostilities'?

The War Powers Resolution of 1973 states Congress must authorise participation in hostilities longer than 60 days, although the president can seek a 30-day extension.

Members of Congress have accused Mr Obama of violating that law since 20 May, when the 60-day deadline ended. Sunday marks 90 days since the US joined the Nato-led no-fly zone mission over Libya

In a 32-page document delivered to Congress this week, the White House said that US forces involved in the Nato campaign were merely playing a supporting role.

That role, it said, did not match the definition of "hostilities" as described under the War Powers Resolution of 1973.

"US military operations are distinct from the kind of 'hostilities' contemplated by the resolution's 60-day termination provision," it said.

White House spokesman Eric Schultz said the law in question had been the subject of fierce debate.

There was a "robust process through which the president received the advice he relied on in determining the application" of the War Powers Resolution, said Mr Schultz on Thursday.

"It should come as no surprise that there would be some disagreements, even within an administration, regarding the application of a statute that is nearly 40 years old to a unique and evolving conflict. Those disagreements are ordinary and healthy," he added.

The revelation that key administration officials had wrangled over the legal implications of the Libya crisis could intensify anger in Congress over continued US participation in the conflict that is said to be costing the US some $10m a day, correspondents say.

On Thursday, John Boehner, the Republican speaker of the House of Representatives said: "The White House says there are no hostilities taking place. Yet we've got drone attacks under way.

"We're spending $10 million a day. We're part of an effort to drop bombs on Gaddafi's compounds. It just doesn't pass the straight-face test, in my view, that we're not in the midst of hostilities."

Libya is expected to be among the issues Mr Boehner and Mr Obama will discuss this weekend as they play a round of golf at an undisclosed location.

War powers

The US role in Libya involves helping Nato aircraft with refuelling operations and assisting with intelligence-gathering, said the White House.

The Obama administration insists that the US is not engaged in sustained fighting or "active exchanges of fire with hostile forces" that put US troops at risk.

Under the US constitution, the power to declare war lies with Congress.

A bipartisan group of US lawmakers is suing Mr Obama in federal court for taking military action in Libya without authorisation from Congress.

The lawsuit alleges the president has violated the US constitution by bypassing Congress.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
He thinks he is above the law but, he better realize impeachment is a very real possibility if the Republicans decide to go on the offensive with the election coming up. He may find some of the peace loving hippies of his own party turn on him and vote with Republicans if it happens.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Guys I'm no fan of obama, and he is in violation of the war powers act, however the war powers act is unconstitutional.

Being commander in chief implies the ability to deploy the military. This precedent goes all the way back to George Washington, and has been applied over and over.

Congress has two legal constitutional means of stopping the Presidents use of the military, Impeachment or defunding.

Only congress can "Declare" war but only the President can make war.

The legal difference between the two is huge. Declaring war is actually pretty rare for the US, but making war is fairly common.

Undeclared wars off the top of my head,

Panama, Veitnam, Korea, Barbary Pirates, Gulf 1 and 2, Afganistan 1 and 2, Japan prior to 1941, Germany from 38 to 41, Jackson seizing Florida from spain,

There are more but you get the point, believe it or not "we weren't attacked first in WW2. (That's not to say ww2 was not a just war, but to say were weren't exactly minding our own business prior to pearl harbor)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Easy I would agree with you but we didn't attack Japan or Germany before the war other than the skirmishes with German U boats to defend our shipping along the east coast and the freezing of some assets because of Japan's aggression in the pacific that threaten the US directly. Of course we were meddling in things but until December of '41, we took economic steps against Japan and even then there was no reason for their move to attack us. Germany didn't declare war on us because of lend lease but because they had a treaty with Japan.

As for this situation, he may have the 'right' to make war but he also has to justify his move to the congress in order to fund that war. IF congress doesn't feel he has done his legal part in it, like attaching the reasoning that we are "supportive" in the operation, they can cut funding for that specific operation and leave him with nothing.

The bigger question is when are we going to actually do things that are positive in nature for our country. I mean attacking Libya is nothing more than a distraction to other issues, and a costly one. The Libyan government knows that they have time on their side if the congress is demanding a reasonable justification for the attack against them and this has led them to believe they can win. I think it is a big mistake to use the US military, whether or not it is attached to any entity for the purpose of nation building when the outcome of our recent past prove to be impossible to do.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
How does the comic act with Dave Chappelle and Rick James go, "Narcissism is a h8ll of a drug..."

Oh wait that was Cocaine....but in barrys case he might be using that too because remember he said.... "I won"....:rolleyes:

It really wouldn't surprise me if he didn't try to suspend the 2012 elections....

Alan colmes had a former Secret Service aganet on his show last night, he worked on the presidential details going back to Reagan, he has a new book coming out on barry and racism..he feels barry will have a serious threat on his life before the next elections....
 
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Poorboy

Expert Expediter
How does the comic act with Dave Chappelle and Rick James go, "Narcissism is a h8ll of a drug..."

Oh wait that was Cocaine....but in barrys case he might be using that too because remember he said.... "I won"....:rolleyes:

It really wouldn't surprise me if he didn't try to suspend the 2012 elections....

Alan colmes had a former Secret Service aganet on his show last night, he worked on the presidential details going back to Reagan, he has a new book coming out on barry and racism..he feels barry will have a serious threat on his life before the next elections....

I'm surprised that the threat on his life hasn't happened yet! There are a-lot of wacko's out there that would like to put his head over the fire place:eek:
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Poorboy wrote:

I'm surprised that the threat on his life hasn't happened yet!

There have been a few, but nothng that was over the top or close to happening..but I figured it would have happened by now...but has much as i don't like his policies, we don't need him dead...just out of the WH..
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
Poorboy wrote:



There have been a few, but nothng that was over the top or close to happening..but I figured it would have happened by now...but has much as i don't like his policies, we don't need him dead...just out of the WH..

Your right, we don't need him dead just out of the Whitehouse and the sooner the better! Hopefully the Sheep will finally wake up and vote his sorry behind out in 2012:D
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Your right, we don't need him dead just out of the Whitehouse and the sooner the better! Hopefully the Sheep will finally wake up and vote his sorry behind out in 2012:D
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the sheep are addicted to government feed. The ones who promise to keep the trough filled with stolen feed are the ones who will likely get elected.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Yes, the president is authorized to make war once congress declares one. There are a few exceptions codified into federal law i.e. the War Powers Act, but the president must act WITHIN them. Past violations don't make this instance legal.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The President is not authorized to make hostilities, either. Only the CIA can do that.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Greg,

Look up "the flying tigers" for US pre 1941 aggresion against Japan. As for US verses germany, you are somewhat correct it was mostly ASW but we did sink a german destroyer, also. Even after that blatant act of war Hitler oredered the Kriegsmarine to avoid US flagged ships and not to return fire.

Anyway not saying the Japs and Germans weren't desrving of a stomping, just saying it is historical myth that we were innocently minding our own business till dec 7 1941.
 
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