tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
I got the c word through!
Auditor:Billions wasted in Iraq
- Thread starter tallcal101
- Start date
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
Sorry about the cut and paste,I have a day job.It's the only time I have committed that most unholy of chat room vice's.
I see you Yahoo.
I see you Yahoo.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Tallcal,
Deflection?
Come on Tall, you are repeating the talking points from the Hanoi Jane club now, hope you are not a life member.
Vietnam ≠Iraq – Learn the FACTS!
You said; “Guess what,your little sermon about the 60's should be a glaring reality check that we are nearing that point again!No difference,the same people who shut down that war are shutting down this war,but with our voice's and our votes.Age changes a few things,but not the core values of right and wrong.Check out Article 1 again,it's a few postings up.â€
Ahhhh, I see, no difference? Core values? OMG
For some reason the popular notion of saving lives through protesting seems to be something that the people in the government who knew what was going on both sides of the war not only disagree with but also have provided proof in many forms that the protesting prolonged the war and killed more soldiers than really was necessary.
The North Vietnam strategist followed the advice of both the Chinese and Russians and made use of the strife in the US to their advantage, both in recruiting and in actual fighting. Some of the things that they wanted to happen actually happened to their delight with the purpose to bring down the moral of the troops. Both the Chinese and Russians knew how to make this a civil psychological war and advised accordingly. They knew that having an antagonistic press (and others) on their side helped out the effort of damaging the reputation of our leaders and eventually causing the end to come with an outcome to their liking (you really need to read about Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili and his ‘staff’ on how they made people believe that he was the greatest person alive). Many of the things that you think that were part of the natural progression of freedoms and rights were actually results of the agitation by leftist faculty and plants with in some of these campus groups on the grounds of the institutes of higher learning (again maybe Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili had the right idea of killing off much of the intelligentsia).
Just a reminder, after Tet took place, the North Vietnam was ready to throw in the towel because of the massive loss of their fighting force but thanks to our media, the people who you call heroes, they reconsidered and kept up the hit and run terrorism (or as we call them today ‘insurgences’ or ‘freedom fighters’) until the division within the country started to appear. But also to remind you that we had some serious problems to deal with the loss of J Edgar Hoover, price controls, inflation, gas shortage, Nixon’s problems, the 26 Amendment and the congress cutting funding to get votes – most of the people were more worried about their ability to buy food and gas than the war.
It no longer amazes me that people of my generation; the baby boomers that is, seem to be really lost when it comes to the facts behind Vietnam. Many still believe that the media and the protesters were heroes but I got to remind you that even if you did protest and believe that you did it in good faith and with good intentions, you are naturally lumped in to the same group that showed contempt for anything government and military, hatred toward returning soldiers by calling them baby killers, spitting on them and a lot of other stuff. Many of this type of do gooder seem to have come around and made amends with their conscience by now saying that they support the troops but the truth is as much as they want to clear their conscience to make them feel better, most have yet to apologize for their past actions and even though they say that they support the troops, the true effectiveness of their support is superficial at best because they must support the troops 100% and do so by supporting their mission 100% and the office of their leader where President Bush is now sitting (not Pelosi as she wants everyone to think) to complete the mission and get them home – no exceptions and nothing less than 100% will do.
Oversight is good but not when you have 535 people telling the constitutionally empower leader what to do – read article one again. AND I am not saying let people lead us blindly down a path of destruction, which is being done by the media but to understand the mission, the people we are fighting, the people we are trying to help and the people who have actually put us in harms way.
Before you start with ‘you went there so you can’t understand’ rhetoric with me, I was young when this stuff took place and I have a great memory and remember being at U of M and other places watching the protesters protest. Many showed a lot of hatred, many others didn’t care but wanted to fit in and many more were and still clueless about the facts.
I would also suggest that before you call people draft dodgers for serving in part of the arm services, I must remind you that for every friend you lost, their lives are meaningless unless you realize the real criminals, the real draft dodgers who fled to Canada and Mexico (and should have been held accountable and in jail which is another Carter debacle) and their lack of concern for the country and the troops who were serving was a big part of why your friends died. It is too bad that anyone had to die but it took someone of convictions to go over there and do a job that many were too d*mn selfish to do.
But with that said the fact that if we pull out of Iraq today, 30, 60, 90 days will cause such a vacuum that we will end up doing a carter again. Today I read how hillary wants to remove the troops within 90 days just after I read the responses to the democratic resolution that said let the troops hang. I find she is just typical of most of the democrats and a bunch of RINOs, no integrity. I am glad my representative said what he said, it reflects on his constituents.
As for ALGORE – what a tree, brainless and can’t make up his mind how to save the planet; stop traveling by limo and private plane and planting trees at the Edward’s compound or sell more books and DVDs – hard decision there ALGORE.
Deflection?
Come on Tall, you are repeating the talking points from the Hanoi Jane club now, hope you are not a life member.
Vietnam ≠Iraq – Learn the FACTS!
You said; “Guess what,your little sermon about the 60's should be a glaring reality check that we are nearing that point again!No difference,the same people who shut down that war are shutting down this war,but with our voice's and our votes.Age changes a few things,but not the core values of right and wrong.Check out Article 1 again,it's a few postings up.â€
Ahhhh, I see, no difference? Core values? OMG
For some reason the popular notion of saving lives through protesting seems to be something that the people in the government who knew what was going on both sides of the war not only disagree with but also have provided proof in many forms that the protesting prolonged the war and killed more soldiers than really was necessary.
The North Vietnam strategist followed the advice of both the Chinese and Russians and made use of the strife in the US to their advantage, both in recruiting and in actual fighting. Some of the things that they wanted to happen actually happened to their delight with the purpose to bring down the moral of the troops. Both the Chinese and Russians knew how to make this a civil psychological war and advised accordingly. They knew that having an antagonistic press (and others) on their side helped out the effort of damaging the reputation of our leaders and eventually causing the end to come with an outcome to their liking (you really need to read about Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili and his ‘staff’ on how they made people believe that he was the greatest person alive). Many of the things that you think that were part of the natural progression of freedoms and rights were actually results of the agitation by leftist faculty and plants with in some of these campus groups on the grounds of the institutes of higher learning (again maybe Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili had the right idea of killing off much of the intelligentsia).
Just a reminder, after Tet took place, the North Vietnam was ready to throw in the towel because of the massive loss of their fighting force but thanks to our media, the people who you call heroes, they reconsidered and kept up the hit and run terrorism (or as we call them today ‘insurgences’ or ‘freedom fighters’) until the division within the country started to appear. But also to remind you that we had some serious problems to deal with the loss of J Edgar Hoover, price controls, inflation, gas shortage, Nixon’s problems, the 26 Amendment and the congress cutting funding to get votes – most of the people were more worried about their ability to buy food and gas than the war.
It no longer amazes me that people of my generation; the baby boomers that is, seem to be really lost when it comes to the facts behind Vietnam. Many still believe that the media and the protesters were heroes but I got to remind you that even if you did protest and believe that you did it in good faith and with good intentions, you are naturally lumped in to the same group that showed contempt for anything government and military, hatred toward returning soldiers by calling them baby killers, spitting on them and a lot of other stuff. Many of this type of do gooder seem to have come around and made amends with their conscience by now saying that they support the troops but the truth is as much as they want to clear their conscience to make them feel better, most have yet to apologize for their past actions and even though they say that they support the troops, the true effectiveness of their support is superficial at best because they must support the troops 100% and do so by supporting their mission 100% and the office of their leader where President Bush is now sitting (not Pelosi as she wants everyone to think) to complete the mission and get them home – no exceptions and nothing less than 100% will do.
Oversight is good but not when you have 535 people telling the constitutionally empower leader what to do – read article one again. AND I am not saying let people lead us blindly down a path of destruction, which is being done by the media but to understand the mission, the people we are fighting, the people we are trying to help and the people who have actually put us in harms way.
Before you start with ‘you went there so you can’t understand’ rhetoric with me, I was young when this stuff took place and I have a great memory and remember being at U of M and other places watching the protesters protest. Many showed a lot of hatred, many others didn’t care but wanted to fit in and many more were and still clueless about the facts.
I would also suggest that before you call people draft dodgers for serving in part of the arm services, I must remind you that for every friend you lost, their lives are meaningless unless you realize the real criminals, the real draft dodgers who fled to Canada and Mexico (and should have been held accountable and in jail which is another Carter debacle) and their lack of concern for the country and the troops who were serving was a big part of why your friends died. It is too bad that anyone had to die but it took someone of convictions to go over there and do a job that many were too d*mn selfish to do.
But with that said the fact that if we pull out of Iraq today, 30, 60, 90 days will cause such a vacuum that we will end up doing a carter again. Today I read how hillary wants to remove the troops within 90 days just after I read the responses to the democratic resolution that said let the troops hang. I find she is just typical of most of the democrats and a bunch of RINOs, no integrity. I am glad my representative said what he said, it reflects on his constituents.
As for ALGORE – what a tree, brainless and can’t make up his mind how to save the planet; stop traveling by limo and private plane and planting trees at the Edward’s compound or sell more books and DVDs – hard decision there ALGORE.
Billions wasted in Iraq? Ummm .....depends on what you are looking at. We haven't been attacked under W's watch........so how much have we saved?
But those ##### Republicans wasting tax dollars and time on foolish democratic votes that don't matter, and spending a whole day listening to Nancy Pelosi whine because she needs a jet equivelent in size to Air Force one.
Then more precious hours wasted why they try to figure out why she needs a staff of 16 people?
Then more time on why she has to fly non-stop?
Then more time on why it needs 42 special seats for her family?
Then more time on why it needs a private theater room and kitchen?
Then more time on why it needed so many bedrooms?
I had better stop there. More time wasted discussing the other 30 reasons. Yep....we will save all kinds of money with the democrats in there. Well....except Hillary, maybe she will bring the WH furniture back she took the first time.
Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
But those ##### Republicans wasting tax dollars and time on foolish democratic votes that don't matter, and spending a whole day listening to Nancy Pelosi whine because she needs a jet equivelent in size to Air Force one.
Then more precious hours wasted why they try to figure out why she needs a staff of 16 people?
Then more time on why she has to fly non-stop?
Then more time on why it needs 42 special seats for her family?
Then more time on why it needs a private theater room and kitchen?
Then more time on why it needed so many bedrooms?
I had better stop there. More time wasted discussing the other 30 reasons. Yep....we will save all kinds of money with the democrats in there. Well....except Hillary, maybe she will bring the WH furniture back she took the first time.
Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Right on bro. However, I don't think Dems will do anything either. They all supported the lies and half-truths at the outset: this is a war for control of oil revenue. And they all know which side their bread is buttered on. If they oppose the war (as W.F. Buckley said in an op-ed piece in Sunday's paper), then why don't they cut off funding? Buckley hit the nose on the head: he knows from which he is talking ( even some right-wingers can be smart!)
The problem with voting independent is you are throwing away your vote. It was most evident when Ross Perot ran. There was no way in the world he was going to win, although he was the least evil choice of the three. All he did was pull enough votes to swing the victory from not so good to pure evil. No, unfortunately we are at a point where all one can do is vote against the greater evil.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
I think the translation is that "W" has been "Lewinsky'd" in the Oval Office too. After all, hasn't every president fooled around with their 19-20 year old interns? Even in the unlikely event that such a thing has taken place, so what? It's his own personal business, he didn't have sex with her and it has nothing to do with his job performance. Anybody that would try to go after him for such a thing would be accused of practicing politics of personal destruction and a witch hunt conducted by a vast left-wing conspiricy.
Thats the way I have felt for a long time too, Leo. I am so unhappy, however, with the Republicans not following through on issues that I cannot vote for them any longer. Perhaps one day enough people will be willing to throw their vote away toward the Libertarian party to make a difference. I understand your logic completely and it is sound reasoning as well. I have just decided its time for me to take a personal stand and make the only statement I can. The Republicans have betrayed me and I'm sick of it.
The Republicans have betrayed a lot of us - from W down to the local congressmen. Personally, I think that if the war in Iraq had been conducted more agressively after Saddam's downfall the insurgents would not have the foothold they do now. Control and order can be established in these areas, and one only has to look north to the Kurds to find proof.
The main failure of the Bush administration is the complete surrender to the invasion of our country by illegal, illiterate Mexican peasants. This capitulation will result in a huge, permanent underclass of foreigners that will do nothing by erode the foundation of our culture. His failure to secure the border with Mexico and deal decisively with the illegal aliens will in the long term be a bigger blight on his legacy than the war in Iraq.
However, there have been some bright spots. Since the 9/11 attacks, the economy has rebounded better than anyone would have dreamed and has produced an unemployment rate lower than that of the Reagan or Clinton years. Home ownership is at an all-time high and wages continue to rise at all levels. Prices remain stable and inflation is in check. Notice though, that the media never mention anything about the economy any more. Bottom line is, in spite of the troubles of the big three US auto makers things could be a lot worse.
How much worse you ask? Envision four years of the Clinton/Obama administration supported by a Democrat controlled congress. We surrender and leave Iraq in discrace, and our oil supplies are immediately in jeopardy from Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, etc. Wonder how emboldened North Korea, Russia and China are at this point? Terrorism spreads again throughout the middle east and Israel is once again at all-out war with all of their neighbors while we "negotiate". Remember those profits you once enjoyed? Hillary has already said she will confiscate them if she believes they're too high and assign them to her pet projects - and if you think I'm being unrealistic, remember the 70% tax rates during the Carter years. If these corporations can't keep the money they make, how many people do you think they will continue to employ? Once they increase taxes across the board and make their concessions to the unions and the entitlement classes, the economy will stagnate and there goes the unemployment rate back up. And back to the immigration problem - "W" will look like an isolationist compared to their policy.
We can only hope the Republicans will come to their senses between now and 2008, and we won't have to hold our noses again while we're in the voting booth. A mixed congress is usually a blessing that keeps too much from happening, one way or the other. But to not vote and allow Hillary and/or Obama into the White House would make for a bad four years.
The main failure of the Bush administration is the complete surrender to the invasion of our country by illegal, illiterate Mexican peasants. This capitulation will result in a huge, permanent underclass of foreigners that will do nothing by erode the foundation of our culture. His failure to secure the border with Mexico and deal decisively with the illegal aliens will in the long term be a bigger blight on his legacy than the war in Iraq.
However, there have been some bright spots. Since the 9/11 attacks, the economy has rebounded better than anyone would have dreamed and has produced an unemployment rate lower than that of the Reagan or Clinton years. Home ownership is at an all-time high and wages continue to rise at all levels. Prices remain stable and inflation is in check. Notice though, that the media never mention anything about the economy any more. Bottom line is, in spite of the troubles of the big three US auto makers things could be a lot worse.
How much worse you ask? Envision four years of the Clinton/Obama administration supported by a Democrat controlled congress. We surrender and leave Iraq in discrace, and our oil supplies are immediately in jeopardy from Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, etc. Wonder how emboldened North Korea, Russia and China are at this point? Terrorism spreads again throughout the middle east and Israel is once again at all-out war with all of their neighbors while we "negotiate". Remember those profits you once enjoyed? Hillary has already said she will confiscate them if she believes they're too high and assign them to her pet projects - and if you think I'm being unrealistic, remember the 70% tax rates during the Carter years. If these corporations can't keep the money they make, how many people do you think they will continue to employ? Once they increase taxes across the board and make their concessions to the unions and the entitlement classes, the economy will stagnate and there goes the unemployment rate back up. And back to the immigration problem - "W" will look like an isolationist compared to their policy.
We can only hope the Republicans will come to their senses between now and 2008, and we won't have to hold our noses again while we're in the voting booth. A mixed congress is usually a blessing that keeps too much from happening, one way or the other. But to not vote and allow Hillary and/or Obama into the White House would make for a bad four years.
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
first i must say i love this country. i am an american and proud of it, but our country is going to hell in a hand basket and i'm scared before to much longer we won't be a super power but a third world country. this my view. maybe i'm a lil paranoid but i think the arabs are more than willing and getting ready to invade. the dems and republicans are both worthless. we have no one to vote for anymore because some people go to d.c. with good intentions and the next thing you know they are in the club up there lining their pockets with our money. i think we need someone from a third party who is only interested in one term to go make a difference. plus these politicians don't want to be among the common folks. many of them like ted kennedy doesn't know what it's like to be common folk. we need more people up there who have graduated from the school of hard knocks not these phds who think they know more than they actually do.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
The grapes are apparently very sour in your neck of the woods.So sorry to see,and by your comments,it will a long lonley four years for you.
The majority seem to not agree with you at this time,but maybe the Republicans can make things right(LOL)!
The majority seem to not agree with you at this time,but maybe the Republicans can make things right(LOL)!
Hi
who ended up getting that money?I think corporate America got it.I also think they got the money missing from Katrina.We need an administation that has no ties to corporate America.We would be better off just picking somebody off the street.
I think that all political advertising and campaigning should be banned, that way the press can't pick the candidates and the winner.Also the elections should not be covered by the press (once the votes are counted they can announce that).I think each candidate should have to fill out a pamphlet much like a resume,they should show how they are going to vote on pertinate issues,and what direction they intend to take the country.These should be distributed by the post office.No more campaign funding.No more buying votes.This way somebody other that the super rich could run for office.It would also illiminate flip flopping on issues.No more voting on a persons looks.We could compare candidates more easily based on issues not personality.Also they can only discuss themselves not the other candidates.No mud slinging.
who ended up getting that money?I think corporate America got it.I also think they got the money missing from Katrina.We need an administation that has no ties to corporate America.We would be better off just picking somebody off the street.
I think that all political advertising and campaigning should be banned, that way the press can't pick the candidates and the winner.Also the elections should not be covered by the press (once the votes are counted they can announce that).I think each candidate should have to fill out a pamphlet much like a resume,they should show how they are going to vote on pertinate issues,and what direction they intend to take the country.These should be distributed by the post office.No more campaign funding.No more buying votes.This way somebody other that the super rich could run for office.It would also illiminate flip flopping on issues.No more voting on a persons looks.We could compare candidates more easily based on issues not personality.Also they can only discuss themselves not the other candidates.No mud slinging.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
So what happened to the term limits that we all voted on?
Didn't many of the "elected officials" go to court to nullify our votes?
Think about it, we voted at the state level to limit the amount of time that these people can serve us and they go to court to say they don't want that.
I really think that the republican party needs to come around to the fact that they can become the party that would win if they support things like serious term limits, tax reform and other positive things that would help all of us, not just their pocket book and accumiliation of power. On the other hand, the democrat party has no choice except to be the party of the left/socialist/defeatist/kooks because that is who is running the party.
Didn't many of the "elected officials" go to court to nullify our votes?
Think about it, we voted at the state level to limit the amount of time that these people can serve us and they go to court to say they don't want that.
I really think that the republican party needs to come around to the fact that they can become the party that would win if they support things like serious term limits, tax reform and other positive things that would help all of us, not just their pocket book and accumiliation of power. On the other hand, the democrat party has no choice except to be the party of the left/socialist/defeatist/kooks because that is who is running the party.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
Only one thing wrong with your colorful description of the leaders of the Democratic party:An ever decreasing number of Americans agree with you.However,you will have no problem finding a majority of Americans who feel your description of kooks best describes the Republicans for a number of reasons.Some of the reasons are below.Lets see,where are some of the Republican leaders and past leaders today?
1.In jail
2.Going to jail
3.Were voted out of office(Rick Santorum and his blubbering fat children,great stuff)!!
4.Are being tried in Federal court for lieing to a Grand Jury.
5.Scampering to stay out of the Libby trial
6.Have jumped ship,and now agree with Democrats
7.Are trying to defend their spending on projects in Alsaka like the bridge to no where.
Well,the list go's on,but who has time.You and your friends represent a minority of Americans who are spitting mad and will insist that it's all somebody else's fault.
Good luck.
1.In jail
2.Going to jail
3.Were voted out of office(Rick Santorum and his blubbering fat children,great stuff)!!
4.Are being tried in Federal court for lieing to a Grand Jury.
5.Scampering to stay out of the Libby trial
6.Have jumped ship,and now agree with Democrats
7.Are trying to defend their spending on projects in Alsaka like the bridge to no where.
Well,the list go's on,but who has time.You and your friends represent a minority of Americans who are spitting mad and will insist that it's all somebody else's fault.
Good luck.
Or we could go with the fairly recent past dems. Let's see,
1. in jail
2. should be in jail
3. murdered to be kept from helping send those to jail that should be
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
1. in jail
2. should be in jail
3. murdered to be kept from helping send those to jail that should be
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.