Drug Testing for Welfare Recipients

[davekc]

As mentioned, I am more of a liberal mindset when it comes to welfare. I have no problem helping people out when things go south but I think it should be treated like unemployment. People are entitled to unemployment for a certain period of time because they pay in to it when they are working. Totally ok with that. Same thinking should go for welfare. You get it for a prescribed period of time and that is it. Of course you can't have starving children so if they go past that prescribed period, the abled body should be required to work for their benefits. Any incentive to stay on it must be stripped away.

 

[Murraycroexp]

Neither. You can get a smartphone for $20 a month, too.

But why kind of data package would that include, Mr Turtle?

 

[Turtle]

But why kind of data package would that include, Mr Turtle?

Generally, WiFi-only data.

 

[Murraycroexp]

Generally, WiFi-only data.

That's all good for those of us that also carry a JatPack. But I'd hate to have to wait for a Lowe's or McD drive-by for emails or the like. Like the Pilot I'm at now (Winona, MS) has Taco Bell. No free wifi. Boo!!

 

[RoadTime]

The longer a person is dependent the more likely it is they will remain dependent.

Overall, I have to agree with that. The best help I ever got was no help.

 

[Turtle]

That's all good for those of us that also carry a JatPack. But I'd hate to have to wait for a Lowe's or McD drive-by for emails or the like. Like the Pilot I'm at now (Winona, MS) has Taco Bell. No free wifi. Boo!!

I don't think a WiFi-only phone would work very well in expediting. But they're popular with people who live near free WiFi hotspots, like in the inner city or in large apartment complexes, or have WiFi both at home and at work.

 

[Murraycroexp]

Yes, that would be the good application.
Or if you already carry a hotspot with you on the road.

 

[cubansammich]

I would have to disagree with such broad-brush stereotyping unless and until I know what you mean by "doing well."

Just one example of "doing well". 7 children, , 5 still at home. One income, well below the "poverty level". They own their home, two vehicles. They home school their children. One has graduated from college, one in now. No student loans. They went to school on full ride academic scholarships. The oldest son, senior in high school is going to get two scholarships, part ride for academics and the rest for skeet shooting. That is "doing well".

Internet is free at libraries, there is no need for smart phones.

I still contend that in the case of able bodied, able minded, people, long term unemployment is a choice. A choice aided by a "system" that is designed to insure failure. A "system " that is designed to keep people dependent. The longer a person is dependent the more likely it is they will remain dependent. Time limits are a must, so is a work requirement.

I am not trying to beat people down, nor am I trying to vilify them. I want the exact opposite. I want everyone to know the quiet confidence that comes from providing for one's self. The dignity of independence. Our "system" is the cause of the misery. What we have now is not "welfare", it is not, "uplifting". It is more like an anchor and chain around people's necks.

That is the problem with government forced charity. It is in the best interest of the government to keep people in their "place".

How do you know for a fact that they receive no public assistance whatsoever? Did you ask? Did they tell you? Also for what it's worth they could get food stamps and maybe even lie about it to you. If you told them your views of the weaklings on the government dole, then opening up to you about any help they may get would be tough for them.

One last thing, your whole argument that you know people who get by without needing assistance so nobody needs assistance is incredibly short sighted.

Quiet self confidence seriously dude? Some people pretend to have self confidence and brag and spin yarns to promote themselves as some sort of big man on campus. Usually those sorts are in actuality pathetic, self loathing insecure fools who don't even realize that EVERYBODY knows they are full of crap. They feel a need to tell everyone of their accomplishments and belittle other people.

Before you cry foul, I am not talking about you either specifically or indirectly but more so a type of person who goes on and on ad nauseam about their achievements, if you see yourself in my description of a fictitious big man on campus then that is on you.

The dignity of independence and honesty as well.

 

[Ragman]

There should also be limits on the length of time someone stays on it as well. Too many "I don't wannas" from many people recieving help.
And we should "help".....but not provide that help as a replacement career. Bad things do happen to good people and we should help, but there has to be limitations.

As mentioned, I am more of a liberal mindset when it comes to welfare. I have no problem helping people out when things go south but I think it should be treated like unemployment. People are entitled to unemployment for a certain period of time because they pay in to it when they are working. Totally ok with that. Same thinking should go for welfare. You get it for a prescribed period of time and that is it. Of course you can't have starving children so if they go past that prescribed period, the abled body should be required to work for their benefits. Any incentive to stay on it must be stripped away.

BINGO! This is what I've been saying.

 

[LDB]

Neither. You can get a smartphone for $20 a month, too.

If the cost is the same and the usage fee is the same then more power to them.

 

[layoutshooter]

How do you know for a fact that they receive no public assistance whatsoever? Did you ask? Did they tell you? Also for what it's worth they could get food stamps and maybe even lie about it to you. If you told them your views of the weaklings on the government dole, then opening up to you about any help they may get would be tough for them.

One last thing, your whole argument that you know people who get by without needing assistance so nobody needs assistance is incredibly short sighted.

Quiet self confidence seriously dude? Some people pretend to have self confidence and brag and spin yarns to promote themselves as some sort of big man on campus. Usually those sorts are in actuality pathetic, self loathing insecure fools who don't even realize that EVERYBODY knows they are full of crap. They feel a need to tell everyone of their accomplishments and belittle other people.

Before you cry foul, I am not talking about you either specifically or indirectly but more so a type of person who goes on and on ad nauseam about their achievements, if you see yourself in my description of a fictitious big man on campus then that is on you.

The dignity of independence and honesty as well.

The family in question is my wife's cousin. They live by a VERY strict set of self imposed rules. He as never lied to me in the past and I have no reason to believe his was lying to me when we talked last. I see the offers from a couple of colleges that his son had received for academics AND skeet shooting. They were real. I know they are home schooled, all of them. They pay cash for older vehicles and drive them till they are dead. His last work truck have over 300K on it. I seen it for my self.

That is the problem. So many are so convinced that it cannot be done, they don't believe it when it is.

The point is, MANY do it and do just fine. I would LOVE to do a TV series with their stories. It would open a LOT of eyes. I have known other families such as theirs. Many of them. Used to fight fires with several. There are people of all races, colors, religions etc, who are able to live that way. They are HAPPY. Do they have a lot of new toys? Nope. Fancy clothes? Nope. Eat at fast food places on a regular basis? Nope.

Maybe we should be paying these people to mentor others, it may help.

Keep in mind, when I talk about needing welfare I am ONLY speaking of able bodied and able minded people.

I also contend that the more welfare is provided the greater the need will be.

I took nothing personal. I am well aware that you are more than able to make an argument without getting personal.

 

[cubansammich]

The family in question is my wife's cousin. They live by a VERY strict set of self imposed rules. He as never lied to me in the past and I have no reason to believe his was lying to me when we talked last. I see the offers from a couple of colleges that his son had received for academics AND skeet shooting. They were real. I know they are home schooled, all of them. They pay cash for older vehicles and drive them till they are dead. His last work truck have over 300K on it. I seen it for my self.

That is the problem. So many are so convinced that it cannot be done, they don't believe it when it is.

The point is, MANY do it and do just fine. I would LOVE to do a TV series with their stories. It would open a LOT of eyes. I have known other families such as theirs. Many of them. Used to fight fires with several. There are people of all races, colors, religions etc, who are able to live that way. They are HAPPY. Do they have a lot of new toys? Nope. Fancy clothes? Nope. Eat at fast food places on a regular basis? Nope.

Maybe we should be paying these people to mentor others, it may help.

Keep in mind, when I talk about needing welfare I am ONLY speaking of able bodied and able minded people.

I also contend that the more welfare is provided the greater the need will be.

I took nothing personal. I am well aware that you are more than able to make an argument without getting personal.

How do you know for a fact that they receive no public assistance whatsoever? Did you ask? Did they just tell you out of the blue?

I have many cousins, and no idea if they receive any public assistance.

 

[layoutshooter]

How do you know for a fact that they receive no public assistance whatsoever? Did you ask? Did they just tell you out of the blue?

I have many cousins, and no idea if they receive any public assistance.

We were having a related discussion. We have had similar discussions over the years. Right now he is looking into leasing a few grass fields to raise organic beef. He has found a partner and they already have buyers. He works HARD.
He EARNS what he has.

What I find strange is that SO many people find it strange that they EARN their way through life.


His kids are amazing. They will not fill a plate until the guests are taken care of. They will not sit until all guests have seats. They are polite to the ninth degree. Yes sir, yes ma'm, No sir, No ma'm are the norm. They are bright, well educated and VERY hard working. ALL have "chores" and DO them. ALL who are old enough, have jobs in addition to their chores and school work. The two girls that are married, married well. NOT rich, well. Hard working men. Their husbands are just as polite. Solid people.

I have a niece and a garden slug, husband? who are on welfare. Their kids are "dull". Neither works, both are healthy and able minded. They have 3 "Obama phones". They believe they are entitled to everything.

 

[cheri1122]

Or maybe the point, minus the liberal hand wringing and teeth gnashing, is welfare recipients don't need smart phones, cable tv with movie packages, gym memberships etc. while they are on public assistance.

If, for the sake of argument, the public has the right to decide what the recipients of public monies have no business 'wasting' money on, why is there not a whisper of discontent regarding the recipients of public monies who earn billions?
Why is corporate welfare not a subject for moral outrage?

 

[Ragman]

why is there not a whisper of discontent regarding the recipients of public monies who earn billions?
Why is corporate welfare not a subject for moral outrage?

Sorry cheri, I've got to disagree with you on this one.
I hear plenty of screaming and hollering about corporate welfare.

 

[AMonger]

They should be able to buy whatever FOOD PRODUCT they want including Susie Q's and Faygo red pop. Alcohol and tobacco excluded.

Hey-ell no! We put up with their stealing because it's preferable to watching them starve and die in the street. So they get only what it takes to keep them alive and get decent nutrition. If they want luxuries, they can GET A JOB.

 

[AMonger]

I don't have any problem with helping American citizens when they need assistance.

Then you take out YOUR personal checkbook and YOU write then a check out of YOUR money. Keep your hands out of my pocket.

We have plenty of money to help these people if the government stopped sending my tax dollars to other countries.

I'm happy for you that you have plenty of money, but speak for yourself. I don't have plenty of money. I'm rather short on it, aamof, and since I'll have to retire someday, I need my own money myself.
As far as sending money to other countries, I'm all for abolishing it. If our representatives worked for us, perhaps foreign aid would be abolished. But I think we've all figured out by now that they don't, so...

I gladly pay taxes knowing that my money goes to help the poor and disabled people in our society. It's all about helping people.

That's not what taxes are for. You want to help people? Donate to private organizations that means-test beneficiaries and require that they continually strive to become self-sufficient. Keeping them dependent is not doing them any favors.

 

[layoutshooter]

If, for the sake of argument, the public has the right to decide what the recipients of public monies have no business 'wasting' money on, why is there not a whisper of discontent regarding the recipients of public monies who earn billions?
Why is corporate welfare not a subject for moral outrage?

IF the public has the right to decide what is done with THEIR hard earned money? IF? What would even make anyone think that we do not have a right to control what happens what is done with OUR MONEY? It is NOT the "government's" money. It is owned solely by the person that EARNED that money. We should ALL have the CHOICE of where our charity dollars go.

Money, like our home's, cars etc, is private property. We have a right to own and control our private property. We, as a people, allow the government to take some of the property to run the government. We, as a people have the right to decide what is done with that money.

When people purchase a commodity, service or product they do so by choice. People can control where their monies go in the private sector. They can, and often do, just avoid companies that they are opposed to.

 

[cubansammich]

We were having a related discussion. We have had similar discussions over the years. Right now he is looking into leasing a few grass fields to raise organic beef. He has found a partner and they already have buyers. He works HARD.
He EARNS what he has.

What I find strange is that SO many people find it strange that they EARN their way through life.


His kids are amazing. They will not fill a plate until the guests are taken care of. They will not sit until all guests have seats. They are polite to the ninth degree. Yes sir, yes ma'm, No sir, No ma'm are the norm. They are bright, well educated and VERY hard working. ALL have "chores" and DO them. ALL who are old enough, have jobs in addition to their chores and school work. The two girls that are married, married well. NOT rich, well. Hard working men. Their husbands are just as polite. Solid people.

I have a niece and a garden slug, husband? who are on welfare. Their kids are "dull". Neither works, both are healthy and able minded. They have 3 "Obama phones". They believe they are entitled to everything.

This is an awesome story of self reliant people and a shiny symbol of good old American hard work to us all. I had just been reading some of your old posts and a few questions come to mind.

To help me and others get a handle on their life maybe you would be so kind as to shed some light on a few things I am confused by.


Is this your wife's male cousin and his wife or her female cousin and her husband? because on 7-4-08 it is different than 9-4-13.


Also back in 08 all that were old enough were in college of the 6 being home schooled.


Here is where I get really confused though, now they have one graduated from college and one still in school but on 3-12-12 2 had already graduated from college. What happened? Did one lose their accreditation some how? This is mind boggling.
Thanks for any response I eagerly await an update and bravo to this fine American success story.


7-4-08 My wifes cousin home schools all HER kids, 6 of the. All that are old enough scored VERY high on the SAT's and went on to college.

3-12-12 My wife's cousin lives west of that River. Home schools 7 kids. The two oldest have already graduated from college. Both have jobs. One is married to a proud Marine. No problems. All are as well if not better adjusted than their public school counter-parts.

9-4-13 You could ask my wife, but you would likely call her ....................... too. How about her cousin? HE has 7 kids, wife does not work. Home schools them all, 1 graduated from college, one in college now,

 

[Turtle]

Hey-ell no! We put up with their stealing because it's preferable to watching them starve and die in the street. So they get only what it takes to keep them alive and get decent nutrition. If they want luxuries, they can GET A JOB.

You want to dictate to people what they can do with the stuff Robin Hood gives them?

Well Sheriff, wouldn't it be better to have a sit-down with Robin Hood?