400,000 kids out of school, Windy City

davekc

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I can't stop laughing. Right in Chicago is the problem with unions. They are 700 million in debt for just the school district and these morons are asking for a 35 percent pay raise. Also they want anyone previously laid off to be rehired. Currently being offered 16 percent and they are rejecting that. Funny thing is, they don't have the money or tax base for either one. Average salary they say is 76k for a teacher with the summer off.
If they get what they want, the Federal government will have to start paying for all school districts. Guess what, they are out of cash as well. Going to have to start busing in "millionaires and billionaires" to pay for it. ;) Not going to happen though. Too cold in the winter.
Maybe Oprah will pick up the tab since she is from Chicago? Oops...forgot she left. Taxes were too high.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
More PROOF that Obama math, WORKS! What this REALLY proves is that these people are stupid, self-centered people who care NOTHING about the job itself OR those who would be FORCED to pay for this. Marxists.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Proof? Could you please edify me as to how Obama or Marxism apply to this story?

Go back and study exactly how the Soviets used unions etc to effect their take over of Russia. That is IF you can find any unaltered text books. This is a planned event.
 

Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
I don't know if it's a planned event in the sense of a Marxist takeover of the country, but it is, nonetheless, classic Marxism. That's what unions are all about at their core, anyway, and considering the funds available and what the unions are asking in relation to that, it's blatant, in-your-face Marxism. Or incredible stupidity. Take your pick.
 

davekc

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I don't know if it's a planned event in the sense of a Marxist takeover of the country, but it is, nonetheless, classic Marxism. That's what unions are all about at their core, anyway, and considering the funds available and what the unions are asking in relation to that, it's blatant, in-your-face Marxism. Or incredible stupidity. Take your pick.

Marxism or stupidity? Kind of hard to decide. I was also surprised, well maybe not surprised that in addition to their pay wants, they also do not want to be evaluated for their job performance. This of course is coming from a broke school district that is ranked near the bottom nationally based on students academics.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Proof? Could you please edify me as to how Obama or Marxism apply to this story?

One can see that you need to educate yourself on the ways of Unions...and barrys ideals...
As Turtle pointed out, this is nothing but blatant Marxism and the exact way Unions work....and also what barry believes in....
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
One can see that you need to educate yourself on the ways of Unions...and barrys ideals...
As Turtle pointed out, this is nothing but blatant Marxism and the exact way Unions work....and also what barry believes in....

Were I to accept your premise that unions = marxism I would suggest we replace the term marxist with unionist or guildist as unions or guilds have been around since the 15th century, long before the birth of Karl Marx. I sense the concept of negotiated fairness ruffles your feathers. In a free market system some sort of resistance is required to assure the cogs in the wheel gt their fair share. In a public school environment the better the quality of life for the teacher, theoretically the better quality of teacher. You could argue for sending your child to private school but it cost prohibitive for most people.
 

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Marxism or stupidity? Kind of hard to decide. I was also surprised, well maybe not surprised that in addition to their pay wants, they also do not want to be evaluated for their job performance. This of course is coming from a broke school district that is ranked near the bottom nationally based on students academics.

Lets see the Chicago teachers are the highest paid teachers in the country and schools ranked near the bottom and US is ranked near the bottom when it comes to math and science among other nations? THey also have the shortest school day compared to most schools around the country and they have the shortest school year only 180 days of school. I say fire all of the ones on strike and hire new teachers willing to really work for the kids and get paid for good results not to get paid just cause they been in the union for however long
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
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Were I to accept your premise that unions = marxism I would suggest we replace the term marxist with unionist or guildist as unions or guilds have been around since the 15th century, long before the birth of Karl Marx. I sense the concept of negotiated fairness ruffles your feathers. In a free market system some sort of resistance is required to assure the cogs in the wheel gt their fair share. In a public school environment the better the quality of life for the teacher, theoretically the better quality of teacher. You could argue for sending your child to private school but it cost prohibitive for most people.

Doesn't matter what is fair. You have a school district that is over 700M in the hole with teachers currently averaging 76k with benefits. Average us teacher pay is roughly 50k including large metro areas.
Average family income in Chicago is under 50k. Guess what.....you have NO money. If they give in, then they will have less teachers. Why? NO money.
Where are they going to get money? Like California, they will agree and then file bankruptcy and fire most of the teachers.
Fairness isn't a issue. Wanting something that isn't obtainable is the bigger problem.
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
Doesn't matter what is fair. You have a school district that is over 700M in the hole with teachers currently averaging 76k with benefits. Average us teacher pay is roughly 50k including large metro areas.
Average family income in Chicago is under 50k. Guess what.....you have NO money. If they give in, then they will have less teachers. Why? NO money.
Where are they going to get money? Like California, they will agree and then file bankruptcy and fire most of the teachers.
Fairness isn't a issue. Wanting something that isn't obtainable is the bigger problem.

If it isn't attainable then we can quit concerning ourselves with it because it won't happen. The points are entirely moot.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Doesn't matter what is fair. You have a school district that is over 700M in the hole with teachers currently averaging 76k with benefits. Average us teacher pay is roughly 50k including large metro areas.
Average family income in Chicago is under 50k. Guess what.....you have NO money. If they give in, then they will have less teachers. Why? NO money.
Where are they going to get money? Like California, they will agree and then file bankruptcy and fire most of the teachers.
Fairness isn't a issue. Wanting something that isn't obtainable is the bigger problem.

So why doesn't old Bailout Barry and Nancy and Reed jump up and send them 700million, come on now, they bailed out the motor car companies, right?
 
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davekc

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So why doesn't old Bailout Barry and Nancy and Reed jump up and send them 700million, come on now, they bailed out the motor car companies, right?

At the end of the day it may come down to that. Problem is, open the door there and every school district will have their hand out. Government is tapped out. California had their hand out and got nothing. They just closed schools and laid off teachers. That outcome could be coming in the case of Chicago. The feds are spending billions just to keep them all from shooting themselves. Not sure there is any money for teachers that are overpaid at this point.
 

Turtle

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Retired Expediter
Guilds and unions go back well before the 15th century, back to the 3rd century, and really even before that back as far as Ptolemaic Egypt in the 3rd century BC. The early guilds, and those up to more recent times, were confraternities of workers, similar to religious confraternities, where work-related skills were taught and secrets of the trade were kept tightly under wraps from outsiders. They were organized in a manner something between a trade union, a cartel, and a secret society, not unlike the unions of today. They imposed lengthy terms of apprenticeship, and tightly controlled their markets. This made it difficult for those lacking the capital to set up for themselves or without the approval of their peers to gain access to materials or knowledge, or to sell into certain markets. In other words the early unions, just like today, wanted control over the market and the production.

Karl Marx didn't invent the unions,

The statement of, "In a free market system some sort of resistance is required to assure the cogs in the wheel get their fair share," is right out of the Karl Marx handbook, where it abhors private ownership and private appropriation of the surplus product in the form of surplus value (profit), despite and in spite of the fact that someone came up with an idea and made it come to life. Marxism is everybody getting their fair share, even if their share isn't fair or deserved. The mere fact that workers perform a job for which they are paid isn't enough, Marxism says that workers should share in all of the profits above and beyond what they are paid.

Marxism says, actually, that the line haul that the customer pays should be distributed equally between the carrier, broker and the driver. I know a lot of drivers, including current and former union members, who would have a serious problem with that.

I also have to comment on the phrase "concept of negotiate fairness", because it's not at all unlike the invented term of "equal marriage" to redefine "gay marriage" to be the same as traditional marriage, even though it's not the same at all. Negotiated fairness means going on strike if you don't get your way, holding hostage for ransom the business to which you are striking. It means preventing the business from operating. It's like the spurned ex-lover who kills his former lover because, "If I can't have you nobody can". And that's exactly what the unions have done in the recent past, and are continuing to do today. There was a time when unions were necessary and did a lot of good for workers everywhere. But those days are gone, yet they aren't satisfied with their fair share, they have gotten greedy and have become the capitalist bаstards they think they are fighting against. It's no longer about fair, it's about winning.

The unions of Detroit have negotiated themselves, fairly, right out of the market. The free market says those cogs can get all the attention they want, but they're still not working. The teachers of Chicago are demanding more fish out of a barrel that doesn't even contain any water, much less more fish. They've shot all the fish already and have scooped them out. But like little children, they're crying until someone puts in more fish, because they want more fish, and that's that.
 

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Foxnews radio The unions has voted to reject the lastest contract offer and now the Mayor says the will go to court to end what he says is an illegal strike
 

wvcourier

Expert Expediter
Foxnews radio The unions has voted to reject the lastest contract offer and now the Mayor says the will go to court to end what he says is an illegal strike

Unions are on last breath, from teachers to referees.

Sent from my Milestone X2 using EO Forums
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
These teachers are way out of line. Their main issue is the reforms Mayor Rahm is attempting to implement. They do not want to be evaluated based on student test scores. I'm with the mayor. They need to be held accountable for their production or lack there of.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
These teachers are way out of line. Their main issue is the reforms Mayor Rahm is attempting to implement. They do not want to be evaluated based on student test scores. I'm with the mayor. They need to be held accountable for their production or lack there of.

The 16% over 4 years is also way out of line. There is NO money for pay raises. They should be taking cuts.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I got it,,,,,,,,,,Obama could do several bow downs, would that work? He is black you know and the black teachers would dance a jig...................lol
 
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