Hoping the apple fell far from the tree

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has a very uncertain future in Kentucky politics. Woe be to Rand if he doesn't put some serious daylight between himself and his father's wacky politics. Being too closely identified with his father's Barney Fife demeanor will be the end of young Rand's political career.

Ron Paul has zero chance of securing the GOP nomination. He has a nearly 100% chance of being a spoiler. Staunch conservatives and loyal GOP members will remember if Rand is harmful to the party. Rand will pay a heavy price if he doesn't come out strongly for the eventual nominee, which most likely will be Romney or Newt.

Ron Paul is a kamikaze politician who would destroy his own party if he cannot get his way. Ron Paul. like the Japanese fighter pilots of WWII, will smile all the way as he deliberately crashes onto the deck of the GOP. Such is the madness of Ron Paul's ego and contempt.

If Rand wants to continue in elective politics, he will have to step out as his own man.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has a very uncertain future in Kentucky politics ...

You scared that he may end up with the nomination?

Or are you scared that his way of thinking may actually be the right path for the country - taking some of these liberal/conservative ideas from the right out of the picture.

Sounds either way.

Pretty funny when you think about it, Rand has endorsed his dad there 100% and made the rounds on the shows saying exactly that.

I read several bits and pieces from AP to the BBC asking what if he gets the nomination, would that flush the republican old guard out and put some new blood into the Grand Old Party. It may be the case that his campaign has more to do with the signaling of the end of that old guard and the bloodletting in the party that is needed to help the country.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You scared that he may end up with the nomination?

Or are you scared that his way of thinking may actually be the right path for the country - taking some of these liberal/conservative ideas from the right out of the picture.

Sounds either way.
That's what I'm thinkin' (both) ..... oh the humanity !....... :rolleyes:
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
One of Paul's largest shortcomings is his position on Israel. It is also one of the most dangerous for the country. Overall he isn't too bad but that one is a biggie.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky has a very uncertain future in Kentucky politics. Woe be to Rand if he doesn't put some serious daylight between himself and his father's wacky politics.
ROFLMAO ..... you musta ignored my warning and turned on the TV ....

And here I was .... jus' sitting here .... all bored and wondering what I was going to do this evening, and lo and behold, I tune in EO and we have the World Premiere of the maxi-series "Modern Greek Tragedy" (in 50 parts)

Ahhh .... lemme see here ... whacky ?

Can you actually articulate that idea ..... with a little more definition than just a mere label ?

It seems to me that now, after fighting to get something that resembles (even if only remotely) reasonable and somewhat unbiased coverage, we're gettin' some traction ..... oh the horror !

Being too closely identified with his father's Barney Fife demeanor will be the end of young Rand's political career.
What an utterly crass political position to take - essentially you are saying you'd prefer a slick dissembling political :censoredsign: .... rather than a man of principle ....

You can't really be that shallow and superficial .... :confused:

BTW, I somehow suspect that he's not sweating it a whole lot right at the moment :rolleyes:

Newsflash: Incoming Propaganda Release from the Wesayso Corporation™

Ron Paul has zero chance of securing the GOP nomination. He has a nearly 100% chance of being a spoiler.
Ahh yes !

Yeeaah well ...... just remember: it's your guys choice ......

You can chose to support either the corrupt political :censoredsign: (aka The Lizard™) ..... or Obama Lite™ .... and you'll guarantee it .....

Or like Spike sez, you can: Do the right thing.

Staunch conservatives and loyal GOP members will remember if Rand is harmful to the party.
Yes - but will they ever recognize (to say nothing of remembering) that it is their own misguided actions that are killing them ?

Yeah, go ahead - purge him from the party .... for supporting his father - that would be a real smart move. You'll probably be able to reduce the Republican voter rolls even faster than they are currently going down !

Good strat there Ace !

(BTW - I assume that when you said "staunch conservatives" above you actually meant neo-con warmonger contingent ... :rolleyes:)

Rand will pay a heavy price if he doesn't come out strongly for the eventual nominee, which most likely will be Romney or Newt.
Given what the remainder of the field consists of, I'd say there is about zero percent chance of that ever happening .... if the Party "faithful" [what a crack up !] persists in continuing in forcing the GOP down it's long painful path of self-imposed decline to political irrelevance ....

Ron Paul is a kamikaze politician who would destroy his own party if he cannot get his way. Ron Paul. like the Japanese fighter pilots of WWII, will smile all the way as he deliberately crashes onto the deck of the GOP. Such is the madness of Ron Paul's ego and contempt.
Fairly laughable to speak of Dr. Paul's ego .... in the context of having just mentioned Obama Lite™ ..... or The Lizard™ .... who has to be the epitome of over-inflated egos (myself excepted, of course :rolleyes:)

On the contempt thing - yeah, he doesn't have a whole lot of use for those who would give lip service to the Constitution ... but would throw it under the bus in a heartbeat, in the interests of political expediency ....

When a man compromises his own personal integrity and sacrifices his principles in adherence to upholding the Constitution, solely in the interest of supporting "The Party" - for really nothing other than political power - and the party is composed of similar, like-minded individuals, then that party deserves no support whatsoever by anyone who would call themselves an American ......

If Rand wants to continue in elective politics, he will have to step out as his own man.
Based on his actions thus far, I believe he already has ....

BTW, do you even have a clue who is running Dr. Paul's campaign ?
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
One of Paul's largest shortcomings is his position on Israel.
Yes, it is for some - at least at first blush - particularly for a couple of segments of the Republican party (evangelicals, and Jews on the far right and some who are more moderate)

However, Paul's position on Israel deserves a thorough and detailed examination - because it is actually in the long-term best interests of both Israel and the US.

It is also one of the most dangerous for the country.
Theirs ..... or ours ? :D

Overall he isn't too bad but that one is a biggie.
Like I said - it deserves a thorough and detailed examination - don't settle for simplistic soundbites by those that would misrepresent his position with strawmen and cast it in different light than what it actually is:

Video: Ron Paul On Israel

Video: You Like Ron Paul, Except on Foreign Policy
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You scared that he may end up with the nomination?
I'm sure aristotle can answer for himself, but I'm wondering why this "scared of him" response comes up every time somebody expresses serious doubts about Ron Paul. There is nothing in the past, nor are there any present indicators that would signal Paul has even a remote chance of winning any primary beyond the Iowa caucus.

In spite of the solid conservative economic positions and voting record in congress, Paul is simply not qualified for POTUS when it comes to executive experience and leadership skills needed to handle the most demanding and consequential job in existence. His foreign policy positions are naive, simplistic and dangerous; regardless of his sound economic beliefs, foreign affairs will have equal weight in the future due to their influence on the global economy.

We have an inexperienced rookie in the White House now, and the results of his radically liberal agenda have been disastrous. Although Paul is far more experienced and qualified for the job than the adolescent jr. senator from IL that currently masquerades as POTUS, we need somebody that understands the dangers our country faces from abroad and from our southern border. The idea that the Iranians, Russians, Chinese, jihadists, etc will like us if we just "mind our own business" is simply out of touch with reality. This isolationist mindset alone disqualifies him from being perceived as a serious candidate for the nation's highest office.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Congressman Ron Paul, who claims to be a Republican, flatly refuses to rule out the possibility of a third party run against the GOP if he fails to secure the nomination. Sore loser syndrome. The man is not to be trusted. Toying with the prospect of running as an independent shows Paul has no allegiance to the GOP or the conservative movement. But then, he's a Libertarian and ran as the Libertarian nominee in the recent past.

If Ron Paul runs as a third party nominee, he could siphon off at least 5% of the votes in a general election. Paul understands such a move guarantees a second term for Barack Obama. Ron Paul would rather throw the election to Barack Obama than see another person win. Anyone in favor of a second term for Obama?

Again, conservatives will cast a distrusting eye upon Rand Paul should he follow his father's model of deceit. If this father and son duo aren't prepared to support the GOP nominee, they should leave the party as a matter of principle.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I'm sure aristotle can answer for himself, but I'm wondering why this "scared of him" response comes up every time somebody expresses serious doubts about Ron Paul.
Because some folks seem to know and recognize that the normal, native state of the neo-con mind is: ..... terror ..... sheer, quaking terror .....

There is nothing in the past, nor are there any present indicators that would signal Paul has even a remote chance of winning any primary beyond the Iowa caucus.
ROFLMAO .....

Dude, you really are a hoot ..... you clearly followed my advice and did not turn on your TV today (Good Boy !)

There's a fairly decent amount of time until Iowa (2+ weeks) ..... and then until New Hampshire ...

Dr. Paul has not gotten anything approaching fair treatment in the media up until very recently and coverage is still somewhat lacking (which amounts to the suppression of his message)

Imagine what will happen if he starts actually getting coverage (then again, maybe you better not .... imagine = more terror :rolleyes:)

Witness Frank Luntz - a man with no great love for Ron Paul (if you knew who Frankie really is, how he operates, and his history and baggage, you'd understand why) on Neil Cavuto today, on Ron Paul:

Frank Luntz on Ron Paul potentially winning 12/14/11

I caught this live as it originally aired this afternoon - and there is even more to what Luntz had to say, but I'll not comment about it until, and if, I locate the video - except to say that I believe it will address your highlighted words above in terms of what may happen in New Hampshire :D

BTW, turn on Cavuto right now ..... so much for conventional wisdom ....

He has on a panel of three (it's over now) .... they are carrying Dr. Paul's message ... if this continues, it's game over .... ROFLMAO ....

Pseronally, in light of the situation we seem to have here, I suggest a strategic readjustment .... albeit careful one:

head-up-butt.png
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Congressman Ron Paul, who claims to be a Republican, flatly refuses to rule out the possibility of a third party run against the GOP if he fails to secure the nomination. Sore loser syndrome.
Yeah ... but you probably just love the fact that The Donald™ has said he may run as 3rd party .... if the GOP nominates the "wrong" candidate (like Dr. Paul :rolleyes:)

At any rate: please just forgo the calls for the authoritarian goose-step, for any that have any integrity it's most certainly:

..... Principles before Party ......

..... National Interests and Country before Party .....

The man is not to be trusted.
.... coming from someone who would support The Lizard™ - an exordinarily corrupt and morally bankrupt individual .... yeah, that sure carries alot of weight .... :rolleyes:

Toying with the prospect of running as an independent shows Paul has no allegiance to the GOP or the conservative movement.
LOL - like it has had any to him ?

But actually that's wrong - in fact, it's the absolute opposite - Paul is staying the course and demonstrating his loyalty by sticking with the GOP (there are a number of downsides to that) .... and if the GOP rejects a him and picks an unelectable follower of that putrid, bankrupt ideology from the Marxist/Trotskyist/Socialist swampland (aka neo-conservatism) Paul may offer himself up for conservatives, libertarians, right-leaning democrats, and Independents to have a real choice to vote for someone they actually believe in.

Just because you are willing to vote for someone you DON'T BELIEVE IN or PHILOSOPHICALLY AGREE WITH doesn't mean the rest of us are obliged to follow along, compromising our own principles in the process.

But then, he's a Libertarian and ran as the Libertarian nominee in the recent past.
No - he's a Republican - check with your Secretary of State or Congress' website if you have any doubt.

BTW, Perry was Democrat .... but you really seemed to give him a pass because you believe he some sort of "Come-to-Jesus" moment .... which, of course, is totally frickin' hilarious when considered in light of your statement immediately above ..... :rolleyes:

If Ron Paul runs as a third party nominee, he could siphon off at least 5% of the votes in a general election.
Oh my Greek Friend it will be far, far worse than that ..... at the very minimum .... (I happen to think he could win in a three way race .... and I'm not alone)

Paul understands such a move guarantees a second term for Barack Obama.
Not at all.

Ron Paul would rather throw the election to Barack Obama than see another person win. Anyone in favor of a second term for Obama?
It's your (and others) call - you have the Spike Lee Choice™ before you.

Again, conservatives will cast a distrusting eye upon Rand Paul should he follow his father's model of deceit.
All hail the Grand Old Party ! ..... Bow ye down and genuflect before The Party ....... the Individual is nothing, The Party is all !

If this father and son duo aren't prepared to support the GOP nominee, they should leave the party as a matter of principle.
Oh is that how it works ?

Your premise is farcical - if the neo-con contingent of the GOP will not support a principled man, who has a long and solid record as a conservative ..... and instead unites behind some individual who is not that - but is a closet liberal or even worse - a slimeball like Gingrich instead, you have no legitimate expectation of, or claim to, our allegiance.

You ain't there for us - then don't expect us to be there for you.

Deal with it.

I'm watching Rush on Van Sustern right now as I type ..... somebody please cut back the guy's medication ... Greta seems sorted freaked out by Rush's ranting and babbling ...... she has this sorta weird look .... like he might jump out of the chair and attack her :eek:
 
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tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
I'm sure aristotle can answer for himself, but I'm wondering why this "scared of him" response comes up every time somebody expresses serious doubts about Ron Paul. There is nothing in the past, nor are there any present indicators that would signal Paul has even a remote chance of winning any primary beyond the Iowa caucus.

Was woundering that myself
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
One of Paul's largest shortcomings is his position on Israel. It is also one of the most dangerous for the country. Overall he isn't too bad but that one is a biggie.

Leo, I respect you (believe or not) but this is one of the most dumbest thing I have read yet.

One of the largest shortcomings is his position on Israel?

The most dangerous for us?

How can that be, they hold no national security interest for us when it comes to our defense mainly because we ignore their prudent and rather salient advice.

Most fail to get the idea that without them, we still stand, not trashing their significant contribution to the region on different levels but the middle east stability doesn't have Israel as a linch pin holding it all together. I support them as a country and did when my country ran to the aid of the Hamas but I think my issue isn't with them but with my fellow citizens who can't seem to think beyond the Glenn Beck rhetoric.


I'm sure aristotle can answer for himself, but I'm wondering why this "scared of him" response comes up every time somebody expresses serious doubts about Ron Paul. There is nothing in the past, nor are there any present indicators that would signal Paul has even a remote chance of winning any primary beyond the Iowa caucus.

He can if he wants to but it seems to me that it would be the same thing you are saying and I go right back to the idea that many who call themselves conservative are just plain scarred of Paul and the libertarian ideals he has. It seems there is more to the story we don't get in the news and what others seem to be speaking as candidates are the same values that Paul and others have had and stick to.

I don't think winning matters to him. Really I think the message matters more than actually winning. If he gets in the top three, then that's good enough to have people think but if he wins, well then that's going to be funny to hear all the crying. I don't think he will win but there is a chance.


In spite of the solid conservative economic positions and voting record in congress, Paul is simply not qualified for POTUS when it comes to executive experience and leadership skills needed to handle the most demanding and consequential job in existence. His foreign policy positions are naive, simplistic and dangerous; regardless of his sound economic beliefs, foreign affairs will have equal weight in the future due to their influence on the global economy.

Solid conservative economic position?

Seriously?

Hey guess what, his position has been of libertrian nature and nothing modern conservative about it. It seems to be a hijack of the values that people on my side of the fence have been speaking about for years and fighting for. I don't see those values with any of the other candidates, especially with Gingrich and Romney, but those two seem to represent the majority of the republican party and not of the independents or libertarians voters.

Well here comes the same "executive experience" BS. Sorry but every president has been without executive experience - EVERY ONE. No one takes training for the office of the presidency, even those greats like FDR and Washington.

His foreign policy positions are naive, simplistic and dangerous; regardless of his sound economic beliefs, foreign affairs will have equal weight in the future due to their influence on the global economy.

Well see here is the issue, most won't get this unless they get hit in the head by a book explaining it.

His position seems to focus on the US and the people first with the concept that we are part of the global community but not leading it - because no one can lead it if they are weak. We are weak, very weak but still have the same arrogant attitude as the French did in the post 1840's Europe not realizing that they no longer have a strong voice in world affairs - if you know a bit about history. We fail ourselves by allowing ourselves to be buried in debt while having a large bureaucracy running the country at the federal level which has been part of the weakness of the country.

Naive?

Not at all. There is no real complex issue that we need to be involved with on the world stage, we elect to participate in the UN and we can let them deal with it or the regional countries step up for once. South Korea can do this alone, or they can pay us - they are no longer a poor country. Japan and others can step up to meet any threat to the region but we are expanding our presence in the Pacific to deal with a perceived threat - amazing people are falling for the BS.

Simplistic?

Why not?

I mean if the average citizen can't understand our foreign policy, then it is an ineffective one. Meaning that we all have a stake in it, so we should have a clear understanding of it.

Dangerous?

Not really. He isn't advocating pulling our troops out of our own country but returning to what the constitution has in mind for them, to defend the country and the people of the country. Having troops man a border of some country that has little to do with our sovereignty and protection which means that the military is not doing their job. Having them man the southern border means they are. Mexico is more of a threat to us at this point than the middle east, so why are we worried about Iran when they don't border us.

The amazing thing is that Russia and China both do not have massive deployments of their troops in other countries as we do but they are a lot stronger than we are at this point in time because of their economy. They focus on their economy first, taking lessons from our past and using them to expand their influence. You think that Africa is open to China because they threaten those who control the African oil fields or just made a deal with them to give them money?

When you speak of Paul's ideas, don't you think his reduction of the size of government would allow us to say DRILL or have a pipeline from Canada to Texas?

Isn't this the strength we need to regain in order to safeguard ourselves against say a middle east oil crisis?

Do you honestly believe that someone like Gingrich or Romney would take the high road and stop the BS with the federal government and reduce their size?

We have an inexperienced rookie in the White House now, and the results of his radically liberal agenda have been disastrous. Although Paul is far more experienced and qualified for the job than the adolescent jr. senator from IL that currently masquerades as POTUS, we need somebody that understands the dangers our country faces from abroad and from our southern border. The idea that the Iranians, Russians, Chinese, jihadists, etc will like us if we just "mind our own business" is simply out of touch with reality. This isolationist mindset alone disqualifies him from being perceived as a serious candidate for the nation's highest office.

I agree we do have one inexperience rookie in the WH but we also had one the last administration and the one before that and the one before that. They are all rookies when you look at what the job is. No one has the corner on the presidency, they may have the arrogance to be one, the staff who helps him say the right things but the days of a unilateral decision making president has been long gone - out with Nixon.

Remember that unless we start focusing on ourselves with the intent that we will fix our own problems first, then we don't have a chance on the world stage.

Also the funny thing is that Paul isn't speaking about the isolationism that many make him out speaking but rather the same thing that matters to most, paring back our involvement in world affairs and being a cop to the world. WE as a country can't afford to do this and like a few have been saying lately, out ROI in our military operations have been zero for a long time because of our inability to actually work with diplomacy properly and the more we expose ourselves, the more danger we are in.

Congressman Ron Paul, who claims to be a Republican, flatly refuses to rule out the possibility of a third party run against the GOP if he fails to secure the nomination. Sore loser syndrome.

Wouldn't you?

I mean I don't see it as a sore loser but more of a political move to gain momentum with one's ideas and values.

The man is not to be trusted.

Neither can Romney, Gingrich, Backmann and most of the republican party - they have sold out the country more than once with their need to conform to the political landscape.

Toying with the prospect of running as an independent shows Paul has no allegiance to the GOP or the conservative movement.

The amazing thing is that he shows the same allegiance that the republican party has given him. I don't know about the conservative movement, no one seems to understand they can't just start stealing ideas and claiming them as their own while thinking that people won't catch them at it.

But then, he's a Libertarian and ran as the Libertarian nominee in the recent past.

Wasn't Reagan an FDR democrat at one time?

If Ron Paul runs as a third party nominee, he could siphon off at least 5% of the votes in a general election. Paul understands such a move guarantees a second term for Barack Obama.

IF 5% of the votes are a killer for any republican candidate, it shows the lack of influence the candidate has in the election.

Ron Paul would rather throw the election to Barack Obama than see another person win. Anyone in favor of a second term for Obama?

Well that's almost a given, looking at what the party wants (Romney) and what some of the people want (Gingrich) - Obama will rip those two up and even if the election is close, Obama will most likely be winning a second term.

Again, conservatives will cast a distrusting eye upon Rand Paul should he follow his father's model of deceit. If this father and son duo aren't prepared to support the GOP nominee, they should leave the party as a matter of principle.

No deceit, that's pretty funny. Paul seems to have laid it all out while others are still tuning their message.

What is pretty sad is while the conservatives are casting that distrusting eye on Paul, the independent voters have been doing the same for the past 15 years and know that the republicans (conservatives) are the same as the democrats (liberals) but with a different mascot.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm sure aristotle can answer for himself, but I'm wondering why this "scared of him" response comes up every time somebody expresses serious doubts about Ron Paul. There is nothing in the past, nor are there any present indicators that would signal Paul has even a remote chance of winning any primary beyond the Iowa caucus.
Was woundering that myself
It's because every time someone expresses serious doubts about Ron Paul, they express it in a manner that suggests they are scared of him.

If there is, in fact, nothing in the past, nor are there any present indicators that would signal Paul has even a remote chance of winning any primary beyond the Iowa caucus, then Ron Paul is, in effect, irrelevant. If someone is irrelevant, then there is no need to espouse, with great fanfare and effort, heaps and loads of negatively associative terms which tell people why they would not want to and should be associated with the man. They don't merely say that Ron Paul should be dismissed because he has no chance of winning, they use pejorative narrative to discredit him, which is a clear indication of how desperately they feel the need to ensure others dismiss him, as well. Sometimes they go as far as to purely fabricate a premise (e.g., 'Ron Paul is an isolationist,' when he clearly is not) in order to dissuade people from investigating any deeper than the superficial premise.

This is not the tactic of someone who is confident and unafraid. Just the opposite.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The scariest thing about Ron Paul is his potential to become Ross Perot.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
The scariest thing about Ron Paul is his potential to become Ross Perot.

If he's not going to win, he may as well. Other than Dr. Paul, the only option among recognized candidates is Obama or Obama-lite. Why have a knock off when we already have the real thing?

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
. If someone is irrelevant, then there is no need to espouse, with great fanfare and effort, heaps and loads of negatively associative terms which tell people why they would not want to and should be associated with the man. They don't merely say that Ron Paul should be dismissed because he has no chance of winning, they use pejorative narrative to discredit

...orchestrated by the RNC, themselves, which says a lot about them, none of it good.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
If he's not going to win, he may as well. Other than Dr. Paul, the only option among recognized candidates is Obama or Obama-lite. Why have a knock off when we already have the real thing?
Monger,

I spit my coffee out on that one - pretty funny :D
 
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