US attacks North Korea 'sacred war' threats

[EnglishLady]

BBC News Dec 23

The US has denounced North Korea for threatening a "sacred war" against the South, whose military has been holding live-fire drills near the border.

The state department's Philip Crowley told the BBC there was no justification for Pyongyang's "belligerent words".

In a day of rising tension, Seoul and Pyongyang traded strong rhetoric, with the South warning of a "powerful response" to any attack from the North.

A month ago, the North fired on a Southern island, killing four people.

Thursday's speech by Armed Forces Minister Kim Yong-chun marks the strongest statement from Pyongyang since the attack on Yeonpyeong island.

Analysts believe the hard-line stance might be timed to coincide with the 19th anniversary of North Korean leader Kim Jong-il taking control of the armed forces, which will be marked on Friday.

'Nuclear' threat

"We've heard this language before," said Mr Crowley in an interview with BBC's Newshour.

"Unfortunately sometimes that kind of language is followed by irresponsible actions, whether it's a missile test, a nuclear test or the shelling of South Korea, as occurred last month."

He added that the North would get no reward for its "provocative actions".

China, the North's only major ally, also issued a statement asking both parties on the peninsula to remain calm.

Pyongyang is frequently accused of sabre-rattling in order to strengthen its hand in negotiations with other countries over its nuclear ambitions.

But the North insists that it is the victim, and repeatedly accuses the South of preparing for war by holding military drills on the border.

Kim Yong-chun, quoted by state news agency KCNA, said the North was "getting fully prepared to launch a sacred war of justice", and also threatened to use a "nuclear deterrent".

Despite possessing enough plutonium to create a bomb, the North is not thought to have succeeded in building a nuclear weapon.

International talks over Pyongyang's nuclear ambitions halted in April 2009, when the North walked out and expelled UN nuclear inspectors.

The US has refused to resume the talks until North Korea recommits to its past promises to give up its nuclear-weapons programme

 

[Turtle]

He added that the North would get no reward for its "provocative actions".

Because, of course, live fire drills on the border isn't the least little bit provocative. <snort>

 

[xiggi]

Because, of course, live fire drills on the border isn't the least little bit provocative. <snort>

Of course neither is sinking a navy ship or shelling an island with S. Korea residents.

 

[Turtle]

Of course neither is sinking a navy ship or shelling an island with S. Korea residents.

Don't forget that both of those were also in response to provoking events.

Don't kid yourself about why the US and South Koreans are there and doing what they are doing. They are there solely to elicit a provoked response, and then call it provoking.

Kinda like what the US did to Japan in 1941. You don't think Japan attacked us without any provocation, do you? We poked and provoked and backed them into a corner until they had no choice. Just like we're (seemingly) doing with North Korea.

 

[RLENT]

Kinda like what the US did to Japan in 1941. You don't think Japan attacked us without any provocation, do you? We poked and provoked and backed them into a corner until they had no choice. Just like we're (seemingly) doing with North Korea.

It's heresy I tell you .... absolute and utter heresy !

How can you even think such a thing, let alone say it ?

I mean, afterall ..... everyone "knows" we are as pure as the driven snow and guiltless as a little lamb ....

In fact, I think that even just saying such things in an online internet forum probably qualifies you to be classified as ..... (wait for it ) ...... a cyber-terrorist ....

 

[Turtle]

It's heresy I tell you .... absolute and utter heresy !

How can you even think such a thing, let alone say it ?

I mean, afterall ..... everyone "knows" we are as pure as the driven snow and guiltless as a little lamb ....

In fact, I think that even just saying such things in an online internet forum probably qualifies you to be classified as ..... (wait for it ) ...... a cyber-terrorist ....

Well, even the history revisionists can't help but to touch a little bit on what actually caused Japan to launch their "unprovoked" attack on Pearl Harbor. They just try and play it down is all.

But I got my information from Wikileaks, so I'm good to go, not a terrorist at all. I'm a free press. Leave me alone.

Besides, I just ate a plate full of bugs. Must be brain food, 'cause I'm not thinking straight.

 

[xiggi]

Don't forget that both of those were also in response to provoking events.

Don't kid yourself about why the US and South Koreans are there and doing what they are doing. They are there solely to elicit a provoked response, and then call it provoking.

Kinda like what the US did to Japan in 1941. You don't think Japan attacked us without any provocation, do you? We poked and provoked and backed them into a corner until they had no choice. Just like we're (seemingly) doing with North Korea.

Exactly what civilians did the south kill to provoke N. Korea to kill? What ship or land did the south bomb to provoke the sinking of a ship with people aboard? The north always has shows of power but when the south does it suddenly it is a provoking event?

 

[Turtle]

You really need to read up on how we and our allies poked and prodded Japan into launching an unprovoked attack, and then you'll see the stark similarity to what has been going on so far in Korea.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I am still of the belief we as a species need a great war, looking at the timetable of history we are way overdue for the big one...our world economy is in terrible shape...

 

[purgoose10]

I hope you guy's get loaded pretty soon, to much time on your hands.

 

[Pilgrim]

You really need to read up on how we and our allies poked and prodded Japan into launching an unprovoked attack...

If you're going to make these kinds of assertions, then you really need to provide some source material for those in the unwashed masses who might think otherwise.

 

[Turtle]

There was certainly no secret that FDR was itching to get into the war in Europe. He needed a reason, tho. And Japan provided that for him.

There's here: 1941: The 8 step plan that provoked Japan into attacking the United States
and here: FDR provoked the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor

While one FOI declassified memo in and of itself isn't really the smoking gun it's made out to be, there are some correlations as to what we did to Japan and what their (predicted) response would be, particularly since all of the points in the memo were, in fact, actually carried out. There are some striking parallels to that and to what's happening in Korea at present.

 

[greg334]

A lot of people don't get the embargo thing Japanese, most of them think it was an instant embargo but the way it was written it had a start date which depending on the product was either 4 months or 18 months from the signing and covered a lot of things - from rubber to cotton to gasoline to oil. Example is scrap metal embargo, it wasn't a case where the Japanese stopped getting scrap metal right away, it was 6 months they had to get what they could and it was boom times for the scrap dealers. They went on a scrap drive almost like a small scrap drive during the war - if it wasn't tied down, it went to the crusher.

The other thing that a lot of people need to understand is the progressive presidents (Teddy R. Wilson, FDR etc. ...) needed a war to fight. Teddy tried to start crap with a Columbia, succeeded to screw with the Philippines but turned to the domestic front and waged war on those horrible companies who abused people.

Wilson wanted to get us into the European war in 1915, he tried to start a war with Mexico by invading it but faced those nasty neutrality groups. His solution was to pit citizen against citizen by government backed groups who incited violence, and it was a violent period of our country. He ended up using an excuse to get us in the war.

FDR did the same thing as Teddy R., he waged war against the depression, using some of Hoover's ideas and some of those used in the Soviet Union. His enemy were the people who created the utilities, who employed large amount of people and the rich. When we were leading up to war, his leadership was scattered at best and he kept a lid on things through key people in his cabinet. I do agree he wanted us in war, but I don't think he would think Japan would be the first to declare war on us. I was surprised that Germany was the one to declare war on us, even though Germany was sinking our ships since 1940. One thing I wondered about is if Germany didn't declare war on us, would we declared war on them.

Back to Korea, why are we there again?

 

[Pilgrim]

Without wandering too far into the historical tall grass, here's just a few thoughts regarding this so-called blueprint for provoking Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor:

• First of all, we have to accept the premise that FDR and his confidants were willing to accept a memo from a mid-level naval officer as the recipe for committing the US entry into a world war. There seems to be no evidence he ever even saw it.
• Secondly, we have to disregard the comment on P.6 from Captain Knox that the US should NOT provoke an attack in the Pacific by Japan.
• Thirdly, we have to disregard the Japanese aggression at the time against China and SE Asia. They were committing considerable war atrocities against the Chinese and pressing into other areas of Indo-China and SE Asia.
• Last but not least, we have to consider the withdrawal of the Japanese from the agreements of the 1st and 2nd London Naval conferences in 1930 and 1936 so their military controlled government could pursue their bellicose activities that were part of their "Southern Strategy".

One might conclude that the FDR administration thought that "sanctions" similar to the ones we're trying at the present with Iran might be sufficient deterrent(it will come to pass that they result in similar results). But to think that this particular memo is the foundation for the US entry into WW2 is a bit of a stretch.

But anyway, it's Christmas Eve and I've got two grandchildren banging on the door wanting me to come out and play - there's another day for this.

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!

 

[RLENT]

If you're going to make these kinds of assertions, then you really need to provide some source material for those in the unwashed masses who might think otherwise.

Try reading Robert B. Stinnett's "Day of Deceit" for a fairly thorough and painstakingly well-documented treatment of the matter.

BTW, try to pick up the later paperback - rather than the original hardcover - whose publication came too soon for the inclusion of the over 4000 communications intelligence documents that Stinnett was able to obtain under the FOIA (Freedom of Information Act)

Of course, the far easier thing to do would be to not look ....... and just continue believing the lies you have been fed.

..... yes ..... I'm quite sure that is the far more comforting route to take .....

 

[Turtle]

Again, while I don't necessarily believe that memo is the smoking gun, I do think there's a little smoke there. There's an awful lot in that memo that actually happened, so either it was uber Nostradamus in nature, astoundingly coincidental, or there's a little puff of smoke in there somewhere.

And just one point to consider about disregarding the Japanese aggression at the time against China and SE Asia, well, no, you really can't disregard it. They more or less had their hands full with China, and it doesn't take much reasoning to conclude that when your hands are full in SE Asia already, you're not going to launch an attack against a brand newly created enemy unless you've got a really good reason for doing so. The Japanese invading the US and China at the same time for the purpose of the Japanese mission of expansion is akin to Montana invading Canada and India at the same time to expand their empire. Canada, sure, they're right next door, but you don't go to India unless you've got a really good reason, like, if they were constantly poking you with a stick.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Again, while I don't necessarily believe that memo is the smoking gun, I do think there's a little smoke there. There's an awful lot in that memo that actually happened, so either it was uber Nostradamus in nature, astoundingly coincidental, or there's a little puff of smoke in there somewhere.

And just one point to consider about disregarding the Japanese aggression at the time against China and SE Asia, well, no, you really can't disregard it. They more or less had their hands full with China, and it doesn't take much reasoning to conclude that when your hands are full in SE Asia already, you're not going to launch an attack against a brand newly created enemy unless you've got a really good reason for doing so. The Japanese invading the US and China at the same time for the purpose of the Japanese mission of expansion is akin to Montana invading Canada and India at the same time to expand their empire. Canada, sure, they're right next door, but you don't go to India unless you've got a really good reason, like, if they were constantly poking you with a stick.

I think there are some that think the US is always the good guy...

 

[greg334]

I think there are some that think the US is always the good guy...

In this age of unreasonable BS and information, some people still cling to the idea that their country is still greater than others. If they are looked down upon because of their chosen naivity and patriotic attitude, then those who look down upon them are no better then those who purposely damage the country out of self-created guilt.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

In this age of unreasonable BS and information, some people still cling to the idea that their country is still greater than others. If they are looked down upon because of their chosen naivity and patriotic attitude, then those who look down upon them are no better then those who purposely damage the country out of self-created guilt.

So true...Merry Christmas Greg...

 

[greg334]

Back to you and Juju.