Slimy Cowards

[layoutshooter]

These bums just have NO stones!! Why not hold a vote and debate BEFORE the election? Then we would know how they feel BEFORE we vote them all out!! Slimy no good for nuthin so and so's!!


White House, Dems see tax cut vote after election



WASHINGTON – The White House and Democratic leaders in Congress said Sunday they would find a way to extend middle-class tax cuts after the November elections, unable to secure http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts# before lawmakers break to campaign.


"One way or the other, we're going to get it done. And I believe the pressure is going to build among the American people" said http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts#President Barack Obama's top political aide.


House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had suggested that a vote could be held this coming week before lawmakers leave town for the elections. But her deputy, Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland, said Sunday that holding a vote wouldn't matter because the legislation is still languishing in the Senate under GOP objections.


Both parties are using the delay in a vote on the fate of these George W. Bush-era cuts at a time of as political ammunition this election season.


Democratic leaders have said they want to freeze tax rates for individuals making up to $200,000 and for families earning up to $250,000. Republicans, as well as some more conservative Democrats, want to extend all of Bush's income tax cuts permanently, even for the wealthiest of Americans.
Democrats think the climate for compromise will improve after the election. They will still need at least one Republican vote in the Senate to pass a bill.


"We are for making sure that the middle-class Americans do not get a tax increase. And we're going to make sure that happens," Hoyer said.


Republicans say they want a chance to debate extending the tax cuts beyond the middle class or else they will block the Democratic proposal.


"If she's not willing to have a fair and open debate, she should not count on our votes," House GOP Leader John Boehner said of Pelosi.


Axelrod said that kind of strong-arm tactic will hurt Republicans in this http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts#


"They're going to have to explain to their constituents why they're holding up tax cuts for the middle class," Axelrod said.


"And I think it's an untenable position to say, "We're going to allow your taxes to go up on January 1st unless the president agrees to give tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires."


The Senate's second-ranking Democrat said he hoped the atmosphere will have changed after the election and the impassed ended. "Occasionally one Republican will break ranks and help us," said Sen. Dick Durbin, http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts#
Still, Republicans have seized on the impasse in Congress by alleging that Democrats are contributing to consumer uncertainty.


"The Democrats have failed to lead this," said Rep. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts# R-Calif. "They are going to want to leave the House without dealing with it. That uncertainty itself is keeping capital on the sidelines and keeping jobs from being created in America."


Boehner said that if the House leaves without blocking the tax increases, "it will be the most irresponsible thing that I've seen since I have been in Washington, D.C."


Axelrod spoke on ABC's "This Week." Hoyer, Boehner and McCarthy appeared "Fox News Sunday." Durbin was on CNN's "State of the Union."









White House, Dems see tax cut vote after election - Yahoo! News

 

[layoutshooter]

Bull crap from BOTH parties.....

You got that right. They need to debate this and vote NOW. Cowards. They don't want to because their positions are weak, they are weak and afraid that they will lose if the voter don't like how they vote. WELL YEAH!! That is the idea!!

 

[chefdennis]

Both parties are worthless...there are "conservative Dems that are good as well as Conservative Repubs...but there are worthless in both parties....you can bet that the 2 party system is being deal a server blow within the next election cycle...you might not see a major win buy 2012, but id be willing to bet you will by 2014....

Contributions directly to the National Parties have dropped big time and those are going directly to canidates now...you will see that continue and the movement towards a 3rd party is coming....

 

[layoutshooter]

It has been said here before a 3rd party only muddies the water...BUT

a definitive 3rd party with a solid platform...one that is consistent....can sure break up the power structure there is now...

As long as that party sticks to the Constitution and does not just try to do why THEY want. We already have two parties like that. A third party needs to just get out of the way.

 

[chefdennis]

Yeap it has been said that a 3rd party vote is wasted and muddies things up. But what we are seeing in this administration and how the libs Dems and the Rino Repubs and their ideals towards socialism and the weakness of the of the leadership within the repub party change is coming (and not as barry stated) We have not seen this type of upraising in my life time as with alot of others...the people are finally waking up to just how much they have let the fed gov take over the power and they are going to take it back and a 3rd party just may be the way now where it wasn't in the past because the people had their head in the sand....that has changed and will continue...its not there yet, but its coming....

 

[greg334]

"We are for making sure that the middle-class Americans do not get a tax increase. And we're going to make sure that happens," Hoyer said

What do they really think we are all dumb?

We are going to still have tax increases in other areas.

I wish these idiots wouldn't fall for the words "Bush tax cuts"

 

[layoutshooter]

"We are for making sure that the middle-class Americans do not get a tax increase. And we're going to make sure that happens," Hoyer said

What do they really think we are all dumb?

We are going to still have tax increases in other areas.

I wish these idiots wouldn't fall for the words "Bush tax cuts"

Yes they think we are all dumb. Yes, many will fall for and continue to fall the the "Bush is to blame for everything" and the class envy and class warfare.

 

[letzrockexpress]

Both parties are worthless...there are "conservative Dems that are good as well as Conservative Repubs...but there are worthless in both parties....you can bet that the 2 party system is being deal a server blow within the next election cycle...you might not see a major win buy 2012, but id be willing to bet you will by 2014....

Contributions directly to the National Parties have dropped big time and those are going directly to canidates now...you will see that continue and the movement towards a 3rd party is coming....

buy 2012? Is that a deadline or a stock tip??

 

[cheri1122]

Yes they think we are all dumb. Yes, many will fall for and continue to fall the the "Bush is to blame for everything"

Not everything, but certainly the tax cuts to the wealthiest folks that didn't do squat to increase jobs, as was promised.

and the class envy and class warfare.

More trite soundbite labels, smokescreens to deflect real and deserved outrage over what corporate greed has claimed for itself, while the rest of us can starve.
I don't envy or hate the wealthy, just despise the corrupt and ethically challenged. Such as those who move jobs out of the US, shield their own money from taxes, and demand concessions from states to locate their businesses there...

 

[greg334]

Cheri,
Actually the tax cuts for the "rich" spurred a number of investments which led to jobs. Some of the startups in 2002 and 2003 were funded by these investments that ended up being recession proof.

There is no correlation between the tax cuts and revenue with the really wealthy because like Buffet and Gates, they don't pay taxes like we do.

More trite soundbite labels, smokescreens to deflect real and deserved outrage over what corporate greed has claimed for itself, while the rest of us can starve.

I don't envy or hate the wealthy, just despise the corrupt and ethically challenged. Such as those who move jobs out of the US, shield their own money from taxes, and demand concessions from states to locate their businesses there...

Well what is corporate greed anyway?

Isn't it an extension of human greed and it seems when we concern ourselves with what others have, even at our low level in this great economy, isn't it all the same thing - what I don't have, I want - and greed is borne out of that emotion of jealousy?

I see the problem with moving money off shore isn't about ethics but about the real American Dream and protecting that dream. If there is no need to move it off shore, then it would be an ethical issue. Our tax system is not just a burden to all of us but it is punitive by its very existence due to the inequality built into it through increased removing of funds as the fund accumulate. If we go to a more fair system, one that doesn't tax either labor or ideas, then I would think the ethical question of off shore investing can be justified.

 

[cheri1122]

If the Bush tax cuts were helpful, why is unemployment worse than it's been in nearly forever? Sorry, I don't buy it. Lower income folks spend 'windfalls', but the wealthy don't, nor do they invest enough to create jobs - at least not on the scale required at this point.

Greed is not born of jealousy - it's simply a desire for more money and/or power.
Corporate greed is exemplified by eliminating jobs to increase the shareholders' dividends, using shell companies & offshore 'locations' to eliminate taxes, deceptive practices [esp the banking and insurance industries] to cheat customers, buying favorable legislation with political donations & favors, cutting corners on safety [BP, the mega egg farms, and the mining industry are the latest in the news] and a gazillion more examples, too.
As I said: I don't envy the wealthy, but I despise the immoral and unethical. Particularly those who have left most Americans unable to earn enough to support their families, let alone pursue happiness.

 

[layoutshooter]

The so called Bush tax cuts did NOT cause a recession. Allowing people to keep more of their money does NOT decrease business. There is a business cycle. Always has been. The government added to that normal down turn with massive subsidies of the housing market which lead to the crash. The government has NO business in housing. In reality they have no business in business. Government either is the cause, increases the problems and in general is just flat in the way of the American people. They are the biggest thing in the way of the people.

 

[greg334]

If the Bush tax cuts were helpful, why is unemployment worse than it's been in nearly forever? Sorry, I don't buy it. Lower income folks spend 'windfalls', but the wealthy don't, nor do they invest enough to create jobs - at least not on the scale required at this point.

Well first let's look at a few facts;

From January of 2001 to the end of September of 2008, the U3 rate was no higher than 6.3% (that peaked in June of 2003). In October of 2008, it went up to 6.6%.

Most economist consider anything below 5% really great.

Maybe the political climate caused by the election is one cause for the rise to 7% plus in November with the election of the messiah.

I think with what went on in our country from 2001 to 2008, with two wars, a massive upheaval of the country's psyche and a lot of other things, the tax changes actually worked really really well.

On the subject of the rich and investments, what do you think they do with the money?

DO you think they stuff it in their mattress?

They put the money back into the system, wall street or commodities or buy things which are different ways to put people to work.

Remember that BANKS had a serious contraction of their 'investments' (which were their loans) that put a stop to a lot of economic activity, which is the same thing that happens with someone with a million dollars actually can't stick it into the stock market but pay taxes.

How else do you think jobs are created?

It takes capital to get it started and by removing that capital through taxes, removes the jobs - it is a direct cause and effect scenario.

The real issue for you and others is you need some sort of tangible evidence to counter the idea that the rich are not doing their 'fair' share in our economy but there isn't any quantifiable way to show that their tax breaks are providing any positive effect to the economy simply because the entire economy is too big.

Greed is not born of jealousy - it's simply a desire for more money and/or power.

TO a point. Greed is borne out of jealousy because a lot of people are content with what they have until they see what others have, then it seems they want more and more. Once they pass that threshold of wanting what others have, it always turns into greed.

Without the example of power, then there is no reason for someone to act that way.

Corporate greed is exemplified by eliminating jobs to increase the shareholders' dividends, ...

First there are separate issues you are trying to deflect with.

Corporate greed is not exemplified by eliminating jobs in order to increase profits, that happens in the movies and in the propaganda. A lot of time it is what I am going to say ...

First the shareholders matter more than the worker. Without the shareholder, the worker does not exist.

Second many MANY people can't comprehend that in our modern age, progress in productivity takes place at an alarming rate.

Many times people forget to look at how much productivity has increased when workers are cut from the workforce.

What this means is that the worker is not needed because productivity actually improves with time, it slips with them doing a job that can be modified to save time.

Time is money and money in labor matters to be competitive in this world.

IF you ever get a chance to visit some of these auto plants and spend time in say a GM plant and one of Honda, or Kia, you can see the differences. The Japanese and Koreans recognized that productivity actually improved with investments of equipment, where at GM they had equipment that was installed in the 50's.

using shell companies & offshore 'locations' to eliminate taxes, deceptive practices [esp the banking and insurance industries] to cheat customers, ...

Well this goes back to a tax issue, there is a reason for this - out tax system sucks. It forced a protection of accumulated money that the government does not or should not have access to.

Deceptive practices?

Oh come on.

See people are greedy, they want something for nothing because they see what others have and want it. The couple who insistent on having a low house payment of a house they could not afford in the first place is not the fault of the people in the banking industry - this couple are told by politicians and the media the American Dream is to own a home and even the greatest President our country has ever impeached said it is their right, so it is their fault, not the banks.

What cheats the customer is not the bank who said "you have 18 payments at this rate and then your payment goes up to X.", it is this idea that they can refinance without a penalty. It is this idea that home ownership is a right.

BUT with that said, I think the real crime is that our government allows packaged mortgage sales between banks and lenders AND that we did not really "fix" the problem by eliminating the variable rate, balloon, interest only or any other unconventional mortgage - those are all crimes to me.

...buying favorable legislation with political donations & favors, cutting corners on safety [BP, the mega egg farms, and the mining industry are the latest in the news] and a gazillion more examples, too.

Well political issues are just that, political issues. We can't do much about it and these corporations actually do something we need to do, speak up.

BP was a cluster**** and it is a bad example of what could have been prevented but overall try looking at what happens in other countries in their oil industry. I think we do a really great job here and because we have had less accidents due to the companies themselves, Government action and regulations seem to slow things down a lot.

Mega-egg farms? You like cheap food? I personally am against any Mega-X farm anything. I think it is an abomination to our lives to have three million chickens 'processed' for food in one day at one plant, the same goes with stuffing 30 of them into a small crate and shipping them 300 miles in -10 degree weather.

The mining industry is dangerous in itself, it always will be but we do like that electricity and that power we get from coal, right? The regulations are only as good as the workers want them to be, but then again here in I think West Virginia miners and companies both are p*ssed off at Obama because they want to work and he won't let them.

Remember that in many ways the government is the problem, not the solution.

As I said: I don't envy the wealthy, but I despise the immoral and unethical. Particularly those who have left most Americans unable to earn enough to support their families, let alone pursue happiness.

Well Cheri, see the wealthy are not the real cause of these problems, a lot of them are ethical, provide fairness and actually are not the fault that "most Americans" can't earn a living. A lot of these issues have to do with labor and the demands of fairness. The system we have in this country has been hijacked by labor and if we can ever return to what we had in the past with open opportunities and lower costs, we can return to a sane economy.