Barbarism of Katyn Forest, 1940

[aristotle]

How many high school students or university students are taught about the atrocities of WWII? This past week's plane crash killing the Polish president and nearly 100 other high ranking Polish dignitaries reminds us real evil can happen.

In 1940, the Soviet secret police, under orders from Josef Stalin, executed some 22,000 Polish military officers and NCO's. One Russian alone is reported to have personally shot 6,000 Poles to death, one victim at a time over several weeks. The Polish military elites, handcuffed, were led a few at a time to a soundproof prison room to be shot through the head. Others were massacred outdoors in the woods. The German Army discovered mass graves and reported it immediately, not wanting to be accused. The Soviets denied everything.

In the era of perestroika, the Russians came clean and admitted their guilt. Stalin had hoped to eliminate the Polish military elites and thus weaken Poland for a generation or more. Poland has a sad history of terrible loss. We must always be diligent about keeping ambitious rulers on a short leash.

 

[greg334]

This wasn't just about Polish military being purged, there were a number of others from all walks of life killed.

Also the event know as the Katyn Forest but was actually a number of places done at the same time under the same orders, including the Katyn Forest.

 

[aristotle]

This wasn't just about Polish military being purged, there were a number of others from all walks of life killed.

Also the event know as the Katyn Forest but was actually a number of places done at the same time under the same orders, including the Katyn Forest.

Yes, Greg. Just as the event known as WWII actually took place in numerous locations at the same time. It was primarily Polish military massacred, but not exclusively Polish military. I had to speak in generalities because many of the actual specifics are lost to history.

 

[layoutshooter]

This has always been the way of the Soviet Union. They account for more that 22 million murders. Made Hitler's 12 million or so seem tame. How many read about those murders in school? How about Red China's murders? Theirs still continue. Ever wonder what so many of the "Human Body" displays that travel the country seem to be oriental? What about what is going on in Tibet? The way of the "left" is drenched in blood.

 

[aristotle]

This has always been the way of the Soviet Union. They account for more that 22 million murders. Made Hitler's 12 million or so seem tame. How many read about those murders in school? How about Red China's murders? Theirs still continue. Ever wonder what so many of the "Human Body" displays that travel the country seem to be oriental? What about what is going on in Tibet? The way of the "left" is drenched in blood.

There are ungodly tribal massacres happening on the African continent, but it is taboo(politically incorrect) to mention it.

 

[layoutshooter]

There are ungodly tribal massacres happening on the African continent, but it is taboo(politically incorrect) to mention it.

I did very little work with the Red China target set in my past life. I do not know how many they have killed in the past. I have heard estimates of somewhere around 70 million and counting. I have no way to confirm that.

Africa has been a mess for who knows how long? You are right, it does seem to be taboo to talk about that.

 

[Turtle]

The bodies of the "Human Bodies" exhibit all seem to be Oriental because they are all from China.

 

[layoutshooter]

The bodies of the "Human Bodies" exhibit all seem to be Oriental because they are all from China.

Yes, I know. That is what I was getting at.

 

[aristotle]

I did very little work with the Red China target set in my past life. I do not know how many they have killed in the past. I have heard estimates of somewhere around 70 million and counting. I have no way to confirm that.

Africa has been a mess for who knows how long? You are right, it does seem to be taboo to talk about that.

Communist China was a closed society for so many decades, no one knows how many millions they slaughtered. A super-paranoid bunch they were and are. It cannot be easy to rule over a population of one billion people. And so many different ethnicities. Wonder how the Chi-Coms keep Islamic fundamentalism in check?

Oh, we should never have turned to China to cover our national debt. It isn't easy to be optimistic about America's future.

 

[Turtle]

Yes, I know. That is what I was getting at.

I'm not sure why, tho. There have been allegations that some of the bodies came from Chinese prisons, but that is yet to be verified. But in any case, the issue for "The Bodies" is not mass murder, it's a consent issue where the bodies of dead people may be involved in the exhibition without having their prior consent, either directly or from relatives, largely because there are no relatives to consult.

The original exhibit of this type, "Body Worlds", by German anatomist Gunther von Hagens, who also invented the plastination technique in the 1970's, began exhibitions in 1995 and includes bodies and remains from primarily German and Kyrgyzstan, and none of them look the least bit Oriental. Every body, or parts thereof, are definitively matched with death certificates and donor consent forms and verified informed legal consent forms of the bodies in the exhibitions. So far, more than 9000 people have pledged to donate their bodies to the Institute for Plastination in Heidelberg, in Germany.

So I'm still confused as to why the fact that dead people from China tend to appear mostly Oriental is even worth mentioning. That's like saying that dead elephants tend to look, uhm, elephant-like.

 

[RLENT]

There are ungodly tribal massacres happening on the African continent, but it is taboo (politically incorrect) to mention it.

Why's that ?

When I was still doing video and media, one of our clients was a 501 non-profit organization that flew relief supplies into Sudan ..... and lobbied about the plight of the population in the south (mostly Christian and animist) and Darfur, that were basically being targeted for extermination if not by, then at least with the tacit consent of, the Muslim government in the North .....

I never experienced any problem whatsoever with their message being taboo or politically incorrect ..... including in the halls of Congress ..... by people on either side of the aisle ......

 

[greg334]

For some reason the african issue is off limits in a general sense.

Most don't want to hear what has happened over there and others say it is an african thing. While still others have a slight hope for the UN and the world to rescue the place at the same time being told the african union doesn't want anyone to be involved.

For a country who has so many "former slaves descendants" among us, we fall very short in any movement to rectify any issue or underlying problems in africa. It seems that they still view our country as a racist wasteland with no hope for a man or woman of color no matter what that color is. We as a country already ignore the slavery we have right on our shores but further ignore the slavery issue that is still happening within africa.

Instead, we ignore the real poverty of africa, while complaining that our poor is really unfairly treated and we need to do more about it.

We ignore the fact that who we hold up as heros are in fact terrorist not unlike Bin Ladin or Arafat - the killer of women and children for a cause that had nothing to do with the innocent victims.

We don't see the connection of culture and the problems within the countries that are suffering.

We put a politically correct face on and don't like to critisize the africans who are the cause of their own problems.

We blame the europeans and ourselves for the problems over there but fail to understand that worst explotation is going on now without the west being there.

 

[layoutshooter]

Turtle, I was implying, maybe in a clumsy manner, that there is a very good chance that some or all of those bodies did not become part of that show by their own wishes. It would not surprise me in the least that they were murdered in prison, in the "re-education" camps etc.

 

[Turtle]

We as a country already ignore the slavery we have right on our shores but further ignore the slavery issue that is still happening within africa.

That's because if we focus on what is happening in Africa, schools and others will be force to admit that the US didn't invent the enslavement of blacks, that most slave traders were East African blacks, and that the enslavement of African blacks by other African blacks dwarfs the level of slavery we had here.

People here in the US are taught about the slavery to be found in ancient Egypt, Rome and Greece, even noting that it was so common in Greece that philosophers such as Aristotle believed that some men were simply born by nature to be slaves, and others not.

We aren't taught that before, during and after Roman times that slavery was ubiquitous in the British Isles. In order to help mold opinions, it's now being more widely taught that the Islamic World routinely took slaves from Africa and Europe from the 6th to the early 19th century.

We are still taught that the Gulag labor camps of the Soviet Union in the 20th century were labor camps or prisoner of war camps and not slave camps, even though it was straight up slavery and you were sent there solely because of who they were and not what they did. The current modern day slavery of human trafficking primarily for sexual slavery isn't considered slavery by many here in the US simply because most of the slaves involved aren't black.

At the turn of the 20th century there were upwards of 3 million slaves in Nigeria, and until the 1930's there were 2 million slaves in Ethiopia. Nigeria didn't ban slavery until 1936 and Nigeria until 1942. But we don't hear much about that, because it was blacks enslaving blacks.

Slavery continues to this day in Nigeria, Benin and others. An estimated 40 million people in India, most of them Dalits or "untouchables", are bonded workers, many working to pay off debts that were incurred generations ago. Things are set up in India so that the debts will never be paid off, regardless of how large or small they are, so these bonded workers and their descendants will remain slaves for quite a while. The current cacao plantations of West Africa, owned by African blacks, use nearly 100% slave labor. Slavery is so widespread in Sudan it is considered to be endemic.

Most don't even have a clue as to the level of slavery that goes on in the world today. And unless it's a white slave owner and a black slave, or a white child sold into sexual slavery, no one here gets outraged, or even cares, because you can't blame "whitey" for it.

 

[layoutshooter]

"We are still taught that the Gulag labor camps of the Soviet Union in the 20th century were labor camps or prisoner of war camps and not slave camps, even though it was straight up slavery and you were sent there solely because of who they were and not what they did. The current modern day slavery of human trafficking primarily for sexual slavery isn't considered slavery by many here in the US simply because most of the slaves involved aren't black."

While it is/was quite true that many that were/are sent to the Gulags were straight up slaves, it is also true that they were/are often used as "prison" or "re-education" camps as well. Many Soviet "political" prisoners were/are sent to "camps" The Soviets had/have a very long list of "thought crimes" and "political crimes" that even if they suspected that you had violated one they would pack you off to the camps. Those were the "lucky ones" many were just shot.

 

[layoutshooter]

Just one link to the nature of political prisoners at gulags.



Gulag: Soviet Forced Labor Camps and the Struggle for Freedom

 

[Turtle]

Yep, well aware of it.

 

[aristotle]

As a white conservative from the rural South, I am not allowed to voice an opinion on race. Because I am a white conservative from the rural South, I have been prejudged at birth to be inherently racist. Minorities will point to my tendency to vote GOP as all the confirmation they need of this supposed racism.

Unfortunately, liberals living north of the Ohio River hold the same slanderous contempt for Southern whites as do the minorities. It has been my experience that race relations in the South, between blacks and whites, are much friendlier and honest than in other parts of our country. Too bad we cannot have open discussions about race in America. Only the views held by minorities and liberals are valid.

 

[layoutshooter]

As a white conservative from the rural South, I am not allowed to voice an opinion on race. Because I am a white conservative from the rural South, I have been prejudged at birth to be inherently racist. Minorities will point to my tendency to vote GOP as all the confirmation they need of this supposed racism.

Unfortunately, liberals living north of the Ohio River hold the same slanderous contempt for Southern whites as do the minorities. It has been my experience that race relations in the South, between blacks and whites, are much friendlier and honest than in other parts of our country. Too bad we cannot have open discussions about race in America. Only the views held by minorities and liberals are valid.

Glad I am not a liberal from up north. The only people that I hold in contempt are those who wish to enslave me or destroy my way of life. I don't give a flip about their color, race, national origin or religious beliefs. Mess with my freedom and you are on my bad side.

 

[Turtle]

There are isolated cases of really ugly racism in the South, to be sure, just like there are up north, but most people in the South are quite friendly between races. In the South, racism tends to be right there, out in the open, from both sides. And because it's so out there and in the open, it's almost not racism, as it tends to become something on a more personal level. People aren't painted with broad racial brushes in the South the way they are in the North. Southerns, both black and white, know it, understand it, and choose to live with it and make the best of it. Both sides are honest about it existing, and therefore can be honest with each other about it. Jokes can be made, and often are, where people will joke to each other about their race, because it is after all right there in your face, and they don't deny it. The racism of the South is a reality racism, where it's acknowledged in the same way as the differences between men and women are acknowledge. I wouldn't go as far to say that it's a cordial racism, but it's close. It simply is what it is, knowing that we are different from each other, but at the same time have the same wants, needs and desires. While racism exists in the South, for the most part people are people and that's the way it is, and most folks just get along.

In the north, in places I've actually lived, the racism is more under the surface, a quiet cancer that poisons the soul. It's a mean, ugly racism, where whites whisper stuff to other whites about blacks, and black whisper stuff to blacks about whites, but no one talks to each other about it. It's disgusting. It's even more disgusting when Northerns try to admonish Southerns for their racism.