RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Okey-dokey ....
Some wish to destroy
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You might get the chance to meet this fine, brave young man one day soon. Right now we are working to get him the "peg leg" that the VA and the army are not letting him have. Amputees are given more than one artificial limb. They are able to request the types of limbs they get. One of the limbs he asked for was a old fashioned wooden "peg leg" for fishing, less chance of it breaking than the "fancy" modern ones. Due to silly regs they won't allow him to have it. If we can't arrange it for him my brother is going to make one for him. We do have a socket to work with, the Army gave him one.
You would learn much from this fine officer. Most real stuff is not in books. You mean to tell me that you are not aware of our "physc ops" units? That kinda amazes me. I would have thought you were. That particular thing works because those who are in the "rank and file" so to speak of the Talliban etc tend to be young, un-educated and heavily indoctrinated in religious hatred. That makes them a rather easy target for trained people to exploit.
You would learn much from this fine officer. Most real stuff is not in books. You mean to tell me that you are not aware of our "physc ops" units? That kinda amazes me. I would have thought you were. That particular thing works because those who are in the "rank and file" so to speak of the Talliban etc tend to be young, un-educated and heavily indoctrinated in religious hatred. That makes them a rather easy target for trained people to exploit.
Yeah!! My dissribia get the best of me often!! My spelling is worse. I can type fairly fast but not as fast as I think and my fingers are often too far behind my brain, that gets me often!!
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
This statement is, of course, utterly ludicrous on it's face.
As such, it - along with the rather blatant and pathetic attempt to color the conversation with patriotic images of wounded American soldiers (appealing to emotion, and not reason) deserves no further reply than as above.
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Well apparently you have a repeating problem of "thinking too fast" when it comes to that particular word ......
No, it is not. When it comes to intell and military issues it is often, not, in books until long after the time in history is over.
I learned that over the years as I saw and read the total lies that were being put upon the American people by who some call the main stream media. I perfer to call them Pravda.
Year in and year out I was amazing at the total "bull" they put out on subjects that I was well versed in.
I have much experience in the fields that I worked in. It was limited by compartmented information and very tight security. Having a Top Secret clearance allows you little access to the good stuff. Every important project had clearances of their own. We had to "read into" a project when we went to work on it and "read out" when we left it. When I left the Agency it took me a little over 4 hours to read out of everything I was working on. It was a good thing that I was not doing much at that time or it would have taken 3-4 days like it did when I left headquarters the last time.
Many books out there are speculation, half-truths, total lies or fiction. There are a few that get it right, but just because it has be published is by no means proof that it is correct. In fact, these days, I contend it is the opposite.
I learned that over the years as I saw and read the total lies that were being put upon the American people by who some call the main stream media. I perfer to call them Pravda.
Year in and year out I was amazing at the total "bull" they put out on subjects that I was well versed in.
I have much experience in the fields that I worked in. It was limited by compartmented information and very tight security. Having a Top Secret clearance allows you little access to the good stuff. Every important project had clearances of their own. We had to "read into" a project when we went to work on it and "read out" when we left it. When I left the Agency it took me a little over 4 hours to read out of everything I was working on. It was a good thing that I was not doing much at that time or it would have taken 3-4 days like it did when I left headquarters the last time.
Many books out there are speculation, half-truths, total lies or fiction. There are a few that get it right, but just because it has be published is by no means proof that it is correct. In fact, these days, I contend it is the opposite.
Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
read the bbc yesterday. there are 3 "watch" lists. one has 550,000 people on it alone! this guy was on the big list.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8432934.stm
there were all the signs of terror here, he paid cash, he bought the ticket a week before the flight AND he had no luggage. his father had called about him disappearing and told the us embassy in nigeria. you just gotta ask who overseas is watching this stuff? who over here reviews the lists before the flights? what agency is responsible?
british security said he could book a flight into britain and transfer thru and not be seen. what does this say about the breakdown in security?
just a couple years ago the soda can bomb was discovered. how many more are there to create? this kind of act goes a lot deeper than blaming the president. he did not put the security measures into place after the advent of 9/11.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8432934.stm
there were all the signs of terror here, he paid cash, he bought the ticket a week before the flight AND he had no luggage. his father had called about him disappearing and told the us embassy in nigeria. you just gotta ask who overseas is watching this stuff? who over here reviews the lists before the flights? what agency is responsible?
british security said he could book a flight into britain and transfer thru and not be seen. what does this say about the breakdown in security?
just a couple years ago the soda can bomb was discovered. how many more are there to create? this kind of act goes a lot deeper than blaming the president. he did not put the security measures into place after the advent of 9/11.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Of course, U.S. intel never used the media for disinformation and to spread lies ... it was all the Soviets and Pravda ...... too funny .....
No doubt true.
Also true - of course, trying to engage you in an actual discussion about the book, or it's premises, is a fruitless effort - since you haven't actually read it, and so are ignorant of what it says.
The best you can do is to offer speculation - based on no personal observation of the work in question whatsover - that whatever it says might not be accurate.
In case it hasn't occurred to you, that's not a particularly strong position to argue from.
Real debate on any matter requires some actual familiarity with the subject being debated.
I don't blame him for the entire problem, just his share. He is not attacking the problem. He reviews proceedures, important to be sure, but that will not destroy our enemy. He must do and say things for the world and public first, insure our resolve, then do his reviews, in secret, so as not to telegraph what precautions we are taking. The buck stops with him now. He is now the Commander in Chief, it is time he started acting like it.
RLENT, I don't know that book, I said I might get it, money is a concern, there are more important things I need right now. Sure I often speculate, as do you. I base my speculation on 20 years experience, input from trusted friends, relatives in the theater of operations and many that I have met who were there and now are no longer able to fight for us. It is not blind speculation. I just base it on more direct input, like first hand accounts from men that I can look in the eye when I speak with them. That is worth more to me than someone that I cannot see, speak with or question.
As to the media, I assure you, for the most part, it tends to lie in favor of our enemy. At least, in almost every thing that I had first had experience in.
RLENT, I don't know that book, I said I might get it, money is a concern, there are more important things I need right now. Sure I often speculate, as do you. I base my speculation on 20 years experience, input from trusted friends, relatives in the theater of operations and many that I have met who were there and now are no longer able to fight for us. It is not blind speculation. I just base it on more direct input, like first hand accounts from men that I can look in the eye when I speak with them. That is worth more to me than someone that I cannot see, speak with or question.
As to the media, I assure you, for the most part, it tends to lie in favor of our enemy. At least, in almost every thing that I had first had experience in.
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Relevant questions all.
Congratulations - the above is evidence that you can actually think (not that I personally, in your case, ever had any doubt
)Sadly, some folks can't (think and reason) very well - instead they resort to simple, jingoistic ranting which does little to inform, or to inspire rational thought which might lead to viable solutions to the issues we face .....
RLENT, It is possible that you don't truly understand how much damage our news media is causing. Real Deaths on the battle field. It is possible that you don't truly understand how having a Commander that does not put the safety of the troops first hurts moral and performance in the field and costs lives.
This commander in chief is dividing the nation like no other in the past and dividing the loyalty of the troops. Moral in Afghanistan is very low. The troops are tired of conflicting orders, not fighting under U.S. command, silly rules of engagement that insures far more deaths and injuries than there should be. Even the "new" cammo stands out like a sore thumb in Afghanistan.
I could not work for Obama, just as I could not and did not work for a man like Bill Clinton. I know many long term troops one with 14 years in service, decorated more than once for bravery , who will be getting out as soon as he can. He says that it is no longer worth it for him to risk losing his life considering this president and a Nation that would elect a man who does not support the troops he commands or the Nation in general. I agree.
This commander in chief is dividing the nation like no other in the past and dividing the loyalty of the troops. Moral in Afghanistan is very low. The troops are tired of conflicting orders, not fighting under U.S. command, silly rules of engagement that insures far more deaths and injuries than there should be. Even the "new" cammo stands out like a sore thumb in Afghanistan.
I could not work for Obama, just as I could not and did not work for a man like Bill Clinton. I know many long term troops one with 14 years in service, decorated more than once for bravery , who will be getting out as soon as he can. He says that it is no longer worth it for him to risk losing his life considering this president and a Nation that would elect a man who does not support the troops he commands or the Nation in general. I agree.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Well, here's the deal - I own two of his books (Marching Toward Hell and Imperial Hubris)
I'll send you Marching Toward Hell - provided that you will actually read it - and provided that you will agree to forward it on to another EO member who is interested in reading it.
You owe me nothing, just let me know where you want it sent.
That is entirely reasonable.
I understand your position - however just realize that it matters not who possesses, or is the source of, vital information (assuming the actual validity of the info), just that the information is vital and valid.
I understand.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Possible yes, however not likely ......
Thank you for the offer of the book. I most likely will buy it for myself soon. I can justify it as "entertainment" costs!! I don't want you to send my yours, not that I have any problem with that I would just feel better buying my own.
I don't understand your last statement on the media and the damage they cause. You lost me there.
I don't understand your last statement on the media and the damage they cause. You lost me there.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
You are quite welcome, of course.
I understand.
It is possible (that I don't understand the damage that they cause) ..... however, it is not likely (in fact it is highly unlikely ... trust me on this one
)
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Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
okay, here is a little background as to how this guy got into the usa.
Air terror suspect was in database, not watch list - CNN.com
(CNN) -- It's called the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, and weeks before authorities say he got on a plane with a bomb, Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab was in it.
The vast government databank, known as TIDE, is administered by the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center. It contains information about hundreds of thousands of people, the majority of them foreign nationals, who are suspected of having terrorist leanings.
An FBI official said AbdulMutallab was included in TIDE after his father warned the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria of his son's hard-line beliefs and possible ties to militant Islamists.
To understand how he could have been under the government's scrutiny and still make it onto a U.S.-bound plane with an explosive, you have to understand the way the government's watch list system works. TIDE is just the start.
The FBI uses the raw information contained in the TIDE databank to determine whether to put the subject onto the government's terror watch list, known as the Terrorism Screening Data Base. That list contains the names and aliases of about 400,000 people, but AbdulMutallab didn't make the cut.
According to Chad Kolton, a spokesman for the FBI's Terror Screening Center, there wasn't enough hard evidence to back up AbdulMutallab's father's fears, and so he wasn't placed on the terror list.
The bureau's own Web site spells out the criteria for inclusion in the screening database, saying that "only individuals who are known or reasonably suspected to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism are included."
The determination not to put AbdulMutallab on the screening list had far-reaching consequences.
In May, the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general issued a report on the watch-list process, including a flow chart describing how anyone suspected of terrorist ties passes through a series of lists, the most serious of which includes the Transportation Security Administration's no-fly list. Making it from the TIDE database to the FBI's screening list is the key.
Because AbdulMutallab didn't make the screening database, his name could not then be sent onto the watch lists maintained by the TSA: the "selectee list," which law enforcement sources say includes about 14,000 names, and the "no-fly" list, which those sources say bans some 4,000 people from boarding any commercial flight destined for the United States.
550,000 names on the master list to 14,000 names to 4,000 names. hey joe, got a computer to cruncha all this and spit it out against airline manifests in less that 6-8 hrs flying time?
Air terror suspect was in database, not watch list - CNN.com
(CNN) -- It's called the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment, and weeks before authorities say he got on a plane with a bomb, Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab was in it.
The vast government databank, known as TIDE, is administered by the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center. It contains information about hundreds of thousands of people, the majority of them foreign nationals, who are suspected of having terrorist leanings.
An FBI official said AbdulMutallab was included in TIDE after his father warned the U.S. Embassy in Nigeria of his son's hard-line beliefs and possible ties to militant Islamists.
To understand how he could have been under the government's scrutiny and still make it onto a U.S.-bound plane with an explosive, you have to understand the way the government's watch list system works. TIDE is just the start.
The FBI uses the raw information contained in the TIDE databank to determine whether to put the subject onto the government's terror watch list, known as the Terrorism Screening Data Base. That list contains the names and aliases of about 400,000 people, but AbdulMutallab didn't make the cut.
According to Chad Kolton, a spokesman for the FBI's Terror Screening Center, there wasn't enough hard evidence to back up AbdulMutallab's father's fears, and so he wasn't placed on the terror list.
The bureau's own Web site spells out the criteria for inclusion in the screening database, saying that "only individuals who are known or reasonably suspected to be or have been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism are included."
The determination not to put AbdulMutallab on the screening list had far-reaching consequences.
In May, the U.S. Justice Department's inspector general issued a report on the watch-list process, including a flow chart describing how anyone suspected of terrorist ties passes through a series of lists, the most serious of which includes the Transportation Security Administration's no-fly list. Making it from the TIDE database to the FBI's screening list is the key.
Because AbdulMutallab didn't make the screening database, his name could not then be sent onto the watch lists maintained by the TSA: the "selectee list," which law enforcement sources say includes about 14,000 names, and the "no-fly" list, which those sources say bans some 4,000 people from boarding any commercial flight destined for the United States.
550,000 names on the master list to 14,000 names to 4,000 names. hey joe, got a computer to cruncha all this and spit it out against airline manifests in less that 6-8 hrs flying time?
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It is possible (that I don't understand the damage that they cause) ..... however, it is not likely (in fact it is highly unlikely ... trust me on this one )
Okee Dokee, I can buy that!!
I can tell you one thing for sure. I pity the stupid media person/reporter whatever who's reports cause the death or injury of my son. It will not be pretty.
There just not enough courts out there to provide the kind of "justice" that I will reek on that person(s). That is a promise.
) Okee Dokee, I can buy that!!
I can tell you one thing for sure. I pity the stupid media person/reporter whatever who's reports cause the death or injury of my son. It will not be pretty.
There just not enough courts out there to provide the kind of "justice" that I will reek on that person(s). That is a promise.
"550,000 names on the master list to 14,000 names to 4,000 names. hey joe, got a computer to cruncha all this and spit it out against airline manifests in less that 6-8 hrs flying time?"
I don't but the government does, way faster than that. Shoot we had stuff that fast in the 80's. Cray II was more than fast enough to do that. That is not all that hard, many home computers can do that. The ball was dropped, again.
It is also no longer my job. I did my job. I did not lose one American life that was intrusted to me. Not one. Lost a few commies every now and then, but hey, better them than us!! After all, I have no problem with the "break things and kill people" part in the defense of this Nation part of working for the Defense Department.
I don't but the government does, way faster than that. Shoot we had stuff that fast in the 80's. Cray II was more than fast enough to do that. That is not all that hard, many home computers can do that. The ball was dropped, again.
It is also no longer my job. I did my job. I did not lose one American life that was intrusted to me. Not one. Lost a few commies every now and then, but hey, better them than us!! After all, I have no problem with the "break things and kill people" part in the defense of this Nation part of working for the Defense Department.
Jack_Berry
Moderator Emeritus
now there is another front to open
After bomb plot, Yemen in U.S. cross hairs - UPI.com
SANAA, Yemen, Dec. 28 (UPI) -- All the signs are that the Obama administration is cranking up its secret war against al-Qaida in Yemen.
The acknowledgement of increasing intelligence cooperation with the beleaguered Sanaa regime, which resulted in a string of attacks on the jihadists' bases in which some 50-60 operatives were reported killed or captured over the last two weeks, is a strong indication that the Americans are showing a new determination to eliminate the militants who call themselves al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula.
A report carried by The New York Times Monday that the United States has opened a "largely covert front" against al-Qaida in Yemen underlines how Washington perceives the organization to be a serious threat not only to the Sanaa government, battered by a plethora of crises, but to the West, and the United States in particular.
The bizarre -- and still largely unexplained -- attempt by a Nigerian engineering student, son of his country's leading banker, to blow up a Detroit-bound Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam on Christmas Day has added to U.S. unease about al-Qaeda's swelling resurgence in Yemen, ancestral homeland of Osama bin Laden.
According to reports, the Nigerian, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, has admitted that he was trained in Yemen at an al-Qaida camp and dispatched on his suicide mission from there.
But these allegations mostly appear to originate with IntelCenter, a private contractor that Antiwar.com describes as having a "dubious reputation" and "does business with the intelligence community."
Admittedly, it's still early days in the U.S. investigation, but the plot appears to get curioser and curioser.
One passenger aboard Northwest Flight 253 described how Abdulmutallab was escorted to the check-in desk at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport by a well-dressed "Indian man" about 50 years old who told the airline attendants that the younger man did not have a passport but had to get on the flight.
The two men were told to go see the airline manager. "I never saw the Indian man again as he wasn't on the flight," said the passenger, Kurt Haskell.
"It was also weird that the terrorist never said a word in this exchange. Anyway, somehow, the terrorist still made it onto the plane. I'm not sure whether it was a bribe or just sympathy from the security manager."
The same witness said that after the airliner landed safely in Detroit that the Federal Bureau of Investigation "arrested a different Indian man while we were held in customs after a bomb-sniffing dog detected a bomb in his carry-on bag and he was searched …
"I'm not sure why this hasn't made it into a new story, but I stood about 15-20 feet away from the other Indian man when he was cuffed and arrested."
These observations, so far not disclosed let alone explained by U.S. authorities, have prompted suspicions that the whole episode was being used to demonstrate that al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula poses a direct threat to the United States, not just to the corrupt regime in Sanaa, and therefore required direct action by President Barack Obama even as he cranks up the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
U.S. authorities say that the bomb Abdulmutallab failed to detonate was made of a powerful military explosive, pentaerythritol, or PETN.
This was the same explosive used by al-Qaida in an abortive attempt in August to assassinate Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, Saudi Arabia's deputy interior minister and head of its counter-terrorism branch, which crushed the jihadists in the kingdom in 2007.
Most of the al-Qaida activists who survived fled to Yemen to form the core of a resurgent organization that apparently planned to renew operations against the Saudi monarchy.
Further bolstering the signals that the White House is poised to take the war to the jihadists in Yemen far more forcefully than hitherto was a September visit to Sanaa by John Brennan, Obama's counter-terrorism chief.
At the same time, Obama, in an unusually strong statement, declared the security of Yemen, which straddles the vital oil tanker routes of the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea, to be "vital for the security of the United States."
Any U.S. escalation there will likely involve similar action in the failed state of Somalia, across the Gulf of Aden from Yemen. There jihadists linked to al-Qaida are fighting a fragile U.S.-backed transitional government. Several key figures have been assassinated by U.S. teams.
not to be confused as another poster here i wonder where the manpower will come from for this fron? perhaps it will happen with drones and national troops. either way it adds another division of americas resources. al-q can open fronts all over the middle east and just see how far we can stretch before the rubber band either breaks from stretching or snaps back.
how many fronts can we handle on our own?
After bomb plot, Yemen in U.S. cross hairs - UPI.com
SANAA, Yemen, Dec. 28 (UPI) -- All the signs are that the Obama administration is cranking up its secret war against al-Qaida in Yemen.
The acknowledgement of increasing intelligence cooperation with the beleaguered Sanaa regime, which resulted in a string of attacks on the jihadists' bases in which some 50-60 operatives were reported killed or captured over the last two weeks, is a strong indication that the Americans are showing a new determination to eliminate the militants who call themselves al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula.
A report carried by The New York Times Monday that the United States has opened a "largely covert front" against al-Qaida in Yemen underlines how Washington perceives the organization to be a serious threat not only to the Sanaa government, battered by a plethora of crises, but to the West, and the United States in particular.
The bizarre -- and still largely unexplained -- attempt by a Nigerian engineering student, son of his country's leading banker, to blow up a Detroit-bound Northwest Airlines flight from Amsterdam on Christmas Day has added to U.S. unease about al-Qaeda's swelling resurgence in Yemen, ancestral homeland of Osama bin Laden.
According to reports, the Nigerian, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, has admitted that he was trained in Yemen at an al-Qaida camp and dispatched on his suicide mission from there.
But these allegations mostly appear to originate with IntelCenter, a private contractor that Antiwar.com describes as having a "dubious reputation" and "does business with the intelligence community."
Admittedly, it's still early days in the U.S. investigation, but the plot appears to get curioser and curioser.
One passenger aboard Northwest Flight 253 described how Abdulmutallab was escorted to the check-in desk at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport by a well-dressed "Indian man" about 50 years old who told the airline attendants that the younger man did not have a passport but had to get on the flight.
The two men were told to go see the airline manager. "I never saw the Indian man again as he wasn't on the flight," said the passenger, Kurt Haskell.
"It was also weird that the terrorist never said a word in this exchange. Anyway, somehow, the terrorist still made it onto the plane. I'm not sure whether it was a bribe or just sympathy from the security manager."
The same witness said that after the airliner landed safely in Detroit that the Federal Bureau of Investigation "arrested a different Indian man while we were held in customs after a bomb-sniffing dog detected a bomb in his carry-on bag and he was searched …
"I'm not sure why this hasn't made it into a new story, but I stood about 15-20 feet away from the other Indian man when he was cuffed and arrested."
These observations, so far not disclosed let alone explained by U.S. authorities, have prompted suspicions that the whole episode was being used to demonstrate that al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula poses a direct threat to the United States, not just to the corrupt regime in Sanaa, and therefore required direct action by President Barack Obama even as he cranks up the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
U.S. authorities say that the bomb Abdulmutallab failed to detonate was made of a powerful military explosive, pentaerythritol, or PETN.
This was the same explosive used by al-Qaida in an abortive attempt in August to assassinate Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, Saudi Arabia's deputy interior minister and head of its counter-terrorism branch, which crushed the jihadists in the kingdom in 2007.
Most of the al-Qaida activists who survived fled to Yemen to form the core of a resurgent organization that apparently planned to renew operations against the Saudi monarchy.
Further bolstering the signals that the White House is poised to take the war to the jihadists in Yemen far more forcefully than hitherto was a September visit to Sanaa by John Brennan, Obama's counter-terrorism chief.
At the same time, Obama, in an unusually strong statement, declared the security of Yemen, which straddles the vital oil tanker routes of the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea, to be "vital for the security of the United States."
Any U.S. escalation there will likely involve similar action in the failed state of Somalia, across the Gulf of Aden from Yemen. There jihadists linked to al-Qaida are fighting a fragile U.S.-backed transitional government. Several key figures have been assassinated by U.S. teams.
not to be confused as another poster here i wonder where the manpower will come from for this fron? perhaps it will happen with drones and national troops. either way it adds another division of americas resources. al-q can open fronts all over the middle east and just see how far we can stretch before the rubber band either breaks from stretching or snaps back.
how many fronts can we handle on our own?