What grade would you give?

[RLENT]

America has appointed itself a 'Master of the Universe", which is ironic, given the mess our economy, not to mention health, education, and infrastructure are currently in.

What is truly ironic about it is being a country which was founded on, and currently professes a belief in, FREEDOM .... but apparently only if it is our officially-sanctioned and sanitized version of "freedom". Or only that "freedom" that we approve of (which of course, immediately makes it something other than freedom) ...... it's what makes us (our government really, not necessarily the people) look like hypocrites in the eyes of the rest of the world.

The people don't want to rule the whole world, we want to grow up in peace, raise our families, educate our offspring, pay our bills, buy a home, save for retirement - you know: "The American Dream", right?

Yup - as do almost all other people in the world .... it is something basic ...... inherent in Man's nature.

Few are those who feel compelled to seek dominion over others .... unfortunately, they create alot of chaos and havoc for the rest of us.

 

[RLENT]

WOW Cheri who lit the fuse on your tampon? I don't think I have seen you this outspoken before. It's kind of a turn on

Possibly one of less intelligent replies I've seen on here in some time .... perhaps you might be able to respond to her post on the merits, and argue the ideas instead .... that is, if it isn't too much of a stretch for ya .......

 

[OntarioVanMan]

What is truly ironic about it is being a country which was founded on, and currently professes a belief in, FREEDOM .... but apparently only if it is our officially-sanctioned and sanitized version of "freedom". Or only that "freedom" that we approve of (which of course, immediately makes it something other than freedom) ...... it's what makes us (our government really, not necessarily the people) look like hypocrites in the eyes of the rest of the world.


Yup - as do almost all other people in the world .... it is something basic ...... inherent in Man's nature.

Few are those who feel compelled to seek dominion over others .... unfortunately, they create alot of chaos and havoc for the rest of us.

Thats exactly the words I was trying to describe..THANK YOU RANDY!!

The gang in here don't understand what I see as an outsider...because they are American and most ex-military...and have this inherent belief in AMERICAN defined FREEDOM...and IF it isn't an AMERICAN type of FREEDOM it isn't good enough....
And to go around the world and preach AMERICAN freedom is hypocritical.

To the common AMERICAN you have YOUR freedom as defined by you and others like you...

Using Canada as an example...They have their version of FREEDOM not like yours but they are FREE to come an go as they please. They elect the Government a FREE peoples.

Canadians for the most part are happy...they have Canadian style FREEDOM....they can do what they want..start businesses..be an emtrepeneur...chose there life profession, go to the university of their own chosing. they are FREE to succeed or chose failure....It is CANADIAN FREEDOM..Sure theres a lot of government programs that are ACCEPTED by the people!

YOU have NO justification to say the Canadian FREEDOM is no good...thats hypocritical.

They are NO longer ruled by the Crown and have thier own constituton...which is modeled quite simular to the American version..Thank YOU for that...

 

[layoutshooter]

Gee Cheri, what does "Provide for the common defense and promote the general welfare" mean? There is a big difference in the words provide and promote. I see nothing that gives the President power over the economy. You can have what ever you want in Canada, OVM, try to take away ANY freedom of mine and it fightin time. When I say Clinton caused the intell failures that lead to 9/11 I can prove that. I can point out programs that fool cut out that directly led to our decreased ability to see that attack coming. 9/11 is the result you get when you hire people that 'taint got a clue what thier job is. HE CAUSED DEATHS.
Obama is even dumber than Clinton, hard to believe, but it's true. It takes 10-15 YEARS to devolpe a good intell agent. They can only be good if they work thier way up from the bottom. You can't build a house from the roof down. Everything Clinton did with the intell agencies was at best counter-productive, at worst, criminal. Obama, with the appointment of Penneta has proven he too knows absolutely nothing about that business. He has shown that he cares little about it and has no clue on how to get the best work out of people. You guys wanted this goober, you got him. The deaths that will happen due to his stupidity are on your shoulders, not mine. I won my war. I kept you safe to ridicule everything I did with my life. Yea, I take it personal. Layoutshooter

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Layout said..

You can have what ever you want in Canada, OVM, try to take away ANY freedom of mine and it fightin time.

Joe I will one day have the priviledge to be a citizen of 2 of the greatest countries in the world! I will adapt to the American FREEDOM as well....One is not more wrong then the other just subtly different....I'll fight for both!!! I'll have your back any time!!...

 

[layoutshooter]

You are right, there IS nothing wrong with either system, in thier place. I could not live in Canada. I don't like all the government intrusion in the lives of private citizens. The taxes. I know a good bit about all of the "tax cheating" that goes on up there. I used to sorta help Canadians cheat on thier taxes. Many Canadians used to come down from Ont to the Cabela's that I used to work at in Dundee MI. They would pull thier boats down unde the guise they were going to fish down here. While here they would buy electronics for the boats, fish finders, radios etc. As much as they could afford. They would pay the extra to have us install it, even if it meant staying overnight. Why? Canadian import and sales taxes. Those taxes were soooo high that even with the added cost of installation and motel rooms they could save as much as 40% on thier equipment. They were never checked at the boarder. The equipment was now on the boat and Canadian customs did not track what equipment they left with or came back with. I once took a fishing trip to the French River in Canada. I hired a guide for the first day to cut down on my learning curve on the river. We talked as we fished. He was an auto worker and made good money. Over $80 per day. (it was a whild ago) I paid him $50 under the table. He missed the day of work and was able to pocket the entire $50 which was much more than what he kept on the $80 from the auto plant. Thanks for having my back. You might be one of the few that do. Layoutshooter

 

[aristotle]

What's in the drinking water in Ohio? These diatribes go a long way toward explaining why business and manufacturing are fleeing the Buckeye state. I wouldn't expect to ever see another automotive plant or any viable manufacturer to build north of the Ohio River. Why would any new venture want to relocate in hostile territory?

 

[highway star]

WOW Cheri who lit the fuse on your tampon? I don't think I have seen you this outspoken before. It's kind of a turn on

I noticed you dropped the "present day comedian" thing from your sig. Is this an example of the reason why? Clearly, anything but funny. Cheri not outspoken? Have you been under a rock, or what?

I would stop short of giving W an "F" and saying he's the worst. Because, well, there's always Jimmy "the Smile" Carter. But, he was far from good. He kept us safe AFTER 9/11. Well, isn't that what the Pres is supposed to do? I do think when judging him, consideration should be given to the effect 9/11 had. It was a crappy hand to be dealt.

 

[flattop40]

I noticed you dropped the "present day comedian" thing from your sig. Is this an example of the reason why? Clearly, anything but funny. Cheri not outspoken? Have you been under a rock, or what?

I would stop short of giving W an "F" and saying he's the worst. Because, well, there's always Jimmy "the Smile" Carter. But, he was far from good. He kept us safe AFTER 9/11. Well, isn't that what the Pres is supposed to do? I do think when judging him, consideration should be given to the effect 9/11 had. It was a crappy hand to be dealt.

Hmmmmm I make a joke and I get 2 responses lambasting me and a warning from a moderator. Yet you can go thru other threads and people joke and make little harmless digs at one another and nothing is said. Did I miss the memo that says you can't make a joke in the "soap box" threads?

Sounds like typical liberals to me. Do as I say but not as I do. Whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

I think Cheri knew I was joking. I even put a little wink sign for those of you who are a little slow.

Yeah I changed my sig. Glad to see people take notice of those things.

"He kept us safe AFTER 9/11. Well, isn't that what the Pres is supposed to do?" So you are saying he DID his job and did it well? We had NO attacks afterwards. Not against ships in the Med. No attacks against other buildings like the original trade center attacks. DID you even read my original post in this thread?

Cheri if I offended you I am truly sorry and I am glad to see you have people who will come to defense.

To the rest of you, as someones signiture says, STOP TRYING SO HARD TO BE OFFENDED!

 

[BillChaffey]

Grade for G.W. Bush. As in the Bobby Bare song "Numbers" "since there ain't no zeros I give you a one"

 

[cheri1122]

Flattop: had you asked "who whizzed in your Cheerios?" I wouldn't have taken offense, but your remark was sexist, demeaning, unfunny, and offensive. I'm happy to defend my words &/or opinions, but expect to be treated with the same respect I extend to those whose opinions I happen to see as utter hogwash, ok?
Like I said: if you really, truly, believe that Bush deserves the credit for America having not been attacked by terrorists again, then I have got some deals for you, all proven effective under those same standards.
PT Barnum was sooooo right!

 

[aristotle]

George w. Bush's stock is rising. I am correcting his grade to a "B" .

 

[cheri1122]

Sounds like typical liberals to me. Do as I say but not as I do. Whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

Take a little 'gander' at the posts about Obama, and remind me: who is guilty of the childish name calling here? (Hint: it's NOT the "liberals"!)
And about the 'wink'? That's a classic rejoinder from a bully: "I was just kidding! Can't you take a joke?"
I accept the apology, and trust you will be more thoughtful when 'joking' in the future. (Because if I can't beat you up, I bet
Highway Star can, lol)
Private note to HS: Will be happy to trade cookies (chocolate chip ok?) for bodyguard duty.

 

[layoutshooter]

In reality Cheri, I can PROVE that Bush's policies and emphisis on defense DID do much to deter additional attacks on our HOMELAND. I don't wish to argue with you but I do think I have a better insight in defense matters than you. Just based on years of experiance. You know, what many in here see no need for. We can argue all you want about morals etc. but the Defense of the Nation IS the primary role of the Federal Government and for the most part Bush had the right stratigic idea but was weak on the tactical side. His main emphisis when take office was correcting the horrible mess that Clinton left our defenses in. Due to that mess Bush was thrust into fighting this war on a minimum of 3 fronts. In fact, we are fighting on more like 20 fronts, it is a very confusing mess we have to deal with. Thank you Jimmy Carter, the original Goober. Layoutshooter

 

[cheri1122]

Sounds like typical liberals to me. Do as I say but not as I do. Whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.

Take a little 'gander' at the posts about Obama, and remind me: who is guilty of the childish name calling here? (Hint: it's NOT the "liberals"!)
And about the 'wink'? That's a classic rejoinder from a bully: "I was just kidding! Can't you take a joke?"
I accept the apology, and trust you will be more thoughtful when 'joking' in the future. (Because if I can't beat you up, I bet
Highway Star can, lol)
Private note to HS: Will be happy to trade cookies (chocolate chip ok?) for bodyguard duty., if need be.

 

[layoutshooter]

I like acting childish, it matches the liberal mind set!!! Just joking. I seem to remember Lilbs comparing Bush to Hilter. Making movies about killing him. Blaming him for every disater under the sun. I even heard one LIB, a woman who lives nears us, blame Bush for creating hurricanes. My wife told her that if Bush is that powerful she had better not "P*ss" him off!!! LOL. I remeber Spike Lee accusing Bush of blowing up leeves to kill black people. Obama never once denounced any of that stuff. SOOOO What is good for Bush is good for Obama. I can't wait for tomorrow, then I can blame Osama Obama for EVERYTHING that goes wrong anywhere any time. What fun that will be!!! LOL Layoutshooter

 

[cheri1122]

Shooter: I bow to your superior knowledge of defense strategy and intelligence - but that doesn't change anything I said. Even if Bush were solely responsible for preventing another attack, that's hardly a legacy to rejoice in, particularly in light of the mess he left everything else in.
"Provide for the common defense, and promote the common welfare" sounds to me as if the common welfare takes priority, because promoting is far more assertive than providing, no? It demands more attention, not less.
You, with your background, place a priority on defense (particularly intelligence) that most Americans don't. It's a trite bumpersticker, but profound in it's truth: War doesn't prove who's right, just who's left.
Maybe Obama will place enough priority on being proactive that war won't be necessary, and I believe most Americans would appreciate that very much - I know I would.

 

[flattop40]

PT Barnum was sooooo right!

Cheri I am glad you accept my apology. I was not trying to be demeaning or anything else but just could tell from your posts that you are adimit about this.

But as far as your PT Barnum comment you should look in the mirror before casting any stones.

Sounds like you have bit hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Scott101]

There have been many, many terrorist plots thwarted since 9/11. Of course the anti-bushies will downplay the significance of the plots.

It is easy to claim a thwarted attack was insignificant. But just imagine if Bush stood up in front of the Nation on 09-10-01 and said they foiled the worst pending attack on US soil by arresting a few guys taking flight lessons that were talking in chat rooms about sneeking box cutters on planes... Oh btw, based on new intel; Starting tomorrow you will have to have your shoes x-rayed before you can board any commercial flight...

My guess is the guy would have been laughed out of office. But as we all know now; a few guys with box cutters CAN do a lot of damage! Yet there are still people who downplay how serious our safety is on our own soil today.

And as for the Iraq war... I can't believe we are all still stuck on this after 7 years. It's real simple. in the course of 12 years the guy violated 17 UN resolutions. I believe many if not all of the resolutions had to do with him granting access to his weapons programs to assure the WORLD he was complying. He still jerked the World around up to the final days leading to the war. I remember in the final days inspectors did find something like a dozen or so long range (illegal to sadam) missiles. And as a final act of non-compliance sadam destroyed the missiles at a measly rate of one missile a day. The one guy that could have stopped the war was saddam hussein not George Bush.

I could fill these pages with quotes from congressional democrats back in the 90's telling us just how bad Sadam was and talking about all his WMD's. They even voted in support of regime change for Iraq. Hmm.

And America isn't a self proclaimed Master of the Universe. Just the opposite. Considering we contribute the bulk of financing and military might to the U.N. all the while having no more voting power then any other Country says a lot.

 

[layoutshooter]

Provide mean that PROVIDE you have to do it. It is the primary function of government. The main funtion of our Intell and military is to AVOID fighting a war. Something that Carter, Clinton and Obama just cannot grasp. Obama will cost as many or more lives as Carter/Clinton combined. Why do I say this? He sides with our enemies. Carter and Clinton did not nearly as much. I consider Obama a traitor. Sorry, but I do. He associates with traitors therefor he is a traitor. I live in a very black and white world. (not racially speaking)
I spent a lifetime and then some dealing with the total destruction of life as we know it every day. In my world you were friend or enemy. I saw the silo doors open 6 times in my career and I can tell you I used a lot of toliet paper on those days. No one in the business ever wanted to fight that "War to end All Wars" the nuke one. We avoided it. At least so far. Obama is weak. Weakness invites attack. Attack insure retaliation and the downward spiral. Obama will talk with Iran, Iran is VERY similar to Nazi Germany. We should have taken out Nazi Germany in 1937 and avoided WW2. We should have put a stop to Soviet Russia in 1948, when they started the so-called cold war, before they had nukes. If we have Eastern Europe would have never been enslaved and more than 25 million lives would not have been snuffed out. Obama is either very very foolish or is truely out to destroy this country. I do believe the latter. His every move so far proves that to me. I pray I am wrong, but I doubt it. I was 100% correct about what Clinton would do, I am willing to bet I am right about Obama. I am not willing to bet my life on this bum, what a shame you are. I pray you don't loose any friends or reletives to the horror he will bring on us. I know I will. Layoutshooter