Your cash is no good -- on the roads, that is.

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
This article goes to the post by Amonger in the Main forum on the Fla. toll road...I put it here because it is a bit political, but still a good read...


E-Z Money
Your cash is no good -- on the roads, that is.

By Eric Peters
3.1.11 @ 6:07AM
The American Spectator : E-Z Money

It says on our Fed Funny Money that "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." Except for paying tolls on government roads.

In which case, it's not.

They won't take your money. But they will force you to cart around an "E-Z Pass" electronic receiver to pay your toll automatically. A transponder/receiver that identifies your car, notes its passing, and sends you the bill (or debits an account). A receiver that also has the capability to track your vehicle as well as monitor its speed. They're not -- yet -- using these "easy passes" to do more than collect tolls, but that doesn't mean they won't, especially as the financial pressures on state and local governments mount and the search for new revenue sources intensifies.

Bet your bippie that's coming.

The creepy part is that just like trying to fly without being gate raped, in states that have these systems in place -- Florida, for example -- there is no opting out. If you want to use the Florida Turnpike you can't use cash. You must have a transponder. If you don't have one and run the road, they're ready for you. The state is rolling out a license plate recognition system that will automatically cuff n' stuff you -- or at least, send you a bill for using the road.

Plus a "processing fee."

There's no recourse -- and no appeal. Other than simply staying home.

The tactic is an example of the left-statist "nudge" (at gunpoint) advocated by the loathsome coercive utopian Cass Sunstein, mentor to his Obamaness but by no means a phenomenon exclusive to the political left. The right is just as thuggish -- witness the TSA and its low-rent Stalinism. They both have the same objectives: Power and control for them; powerlessness and submission for you and me.

And Florida is by no means unique. Indiana is another state that has adopted a nearly identical measure on some of its toll roads. Same deal. They not only won't take your money -- that is, your allegedly "legal tender for all debts, public and private" cash money -- they have taken down and removed any possible way to pay except via the "easy pass." Or the plate reader that sends you (well, the registered owner of the vehicle) the bill.

Some are pushing back.

In Florida, a class-action suit has been filed that accuses the government -- and the private contractor, the sickeningly named Faneuil, Inc. (our Founders are rolling at high RPMs in their graves) -- of unlawfully detaining motorists who wish to pay with cash, which, after all, is still legal tender.

Or so it says on the stuff.

And of violating their Fourth Amendment rights:

"For approximately four years, FDOT and Faneuil have engaged in a practice of detaining motorists and their passengers on the Turnpike System until such motorists provided certain personal information in exchange for their release," attorney James C. Valenti wrote on behalf of the plaintiffs. "The motorists and passengers have been detained without their consent and without legal justification."

People who tried to pay with cash -- remember, "legal tender for all debts, public and private" -- were detained and required to fill out a Bill Detection Report that included such information as the driver's name and address, the make/model/year of vehicle, license plate number and so on. Motorists captured in this gauntlet -- literally, there was no escape; the toll operator would not open the gate and if a motorist tried to back out, it would be "reckless driving," an arrestable misdemeanor offense -- effectively had no choice. Fill out the form.


Submit, obey.

According to Valenti, more than 250,000 people have been detained by FDOT and its corporate henchmen at Faneiul, Inc., merely for trying to use American currency to pay a toll. Or rather, for declining to carry the "easy pass" electronic transponder.

In this upended version of America, people just trying to go about their business -- whether by plane or car -- are to be forced to submit to an ever-increasing array of humiliations and perpetual monitoring.

It's not just that the government wants to "reduce operating costs," as claimed by FDOT and Faneuil, Inc. It's that they want to have the ability to identify and track every car on the road, for purposes that will become apparent as time goes by. The insurance cartels have been drooling like Pavlov's dogs for years at the prospect of being able to know, in real time, just exactly how fast you're driving -- and (super chubby here) debit you every single time you "speed" or otherwise give them an excuse to jack up your rates. Meanwhile, the state will take its cut -- withdrawing the funds from your account automatically. Due process, schmoshes. If we want your money, we'll take your money.

Can't you hear it? Speeding is illegal -- and unsafe. We want to make our roads safer. This technology will save lives.

It's been done with red light cameras -- already a billion-dollar industry. Bet your bippie it will be done here too.

Meanwhile, what about this "legal tender" business? Is money no longer money? Perhaps Valenti will see an opportunity to press the question. We already know our Fed Funny Money is just that -- scraps of increasingly worthless paper.

Maybe it's time to make it official.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
It is a Spanish Group that owns the Indiana toll rd and they are now working with the new gov of ohio to buy the Ohio toll rd...they are also part of an investment group that holds a 99 yr lease on Midway Airport in chicago also....
 

jansiemoo

Seasoned Expediter
I'm confused. The article says you can't pay cash on the Indiana toll road, but I do. Every time. They take cash (paper/coin), credit, and EZpass/Ipass/I-zoom.
???
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Indiana still takes cash, but at limited exits...some will not and alot of those that stll do, you have to have exact change...as in Ill also...
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well this is a BIG problem with congress and the lack of oversight.

I thought that every toll road that accepts Federal Funding falls under a number of laws, one I think has something to do with using US currency.

IF Florida wants to play games then pay in pennies, make those idiots in the booths count them out - they have to accept them or you get a free ride.

BUT with that said, the Indiana Toll Road is not a privately owned road, it is owned by Indiana Transportation Finance Authority which is owned directly by the state. The management of the roads are done by Indiana Toll Road Concession Company which is some joint-venture between Spanish Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte and Australian Macquarie Atlas Roads. It seemed to have improved the operation a bit more but because I drive it every week, I don't like the automated tellers because they are slow to respond and may times I had to call in to pay the toll but it also gives dollar coins as change but will not take them. HOWEVER Ohio's automated is the model (try it out at exit 13), not only does it take any thing above pennies (and even those d*mn dollar coins but also takes bills and give change back in both paper and coins. It is obvious that Indiana didn't do their homework on that.
 

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Where is the proof they are forcing people to use EZ Pass or Sun Pass I see lots of people paying cash on all the toll roads they never refuse to take my cash or refuse other people using cash that I have seen. Amonger says they should have signs saying no large bills before you get on the turnpike sounds stupid to me as for the large bill s there are stores that refuse to take large bills especially late at night but they dont have signs out side that you can see before you pull into the parking lot only a sign at the cash register or some times no sign at all they just tell you when you get to the cash register
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The chances of someone from OUT OF STATE being refused the ability to pay with cash is slim to none...but for those living in the state the chance of being put in that position are pretty high....as for signage stating no large bills, i see them all the time at gas stations....
 

Scottrucks

Seasoned Expediter
The 407 in Ontario is a "BIG" Joke, the gov't built the highway then sold a lease for 99 years or some such...now, if you have a transponder they charge you every month a fee even if you don't use the highway, but if you don't have a transponder... you pay the service fee for not having a transponder PLUS you for the photo fee, for having them read your plate, plus the pay for each km you travel...of course the rate depends on the time of day, which day it is and what you are driving(private or commerical plus the size) Get caught driving a commerical rig on the highway without a transponder...eeek...BIG FINES...did I say it is the BEST patrolled hiway in Ontario??? Lot of cops...

Crazy avoid at all costs!!!
 
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bobwg

Expert Expediter
The chances of someone from OUT OF STATE being refused the ability to pay with cash is slim to none...but for those living in the state the chance of being put in that position are pretty high....as for signage stating no large bills, i see them all the time at gas stations....

Again what proof they are forcing people and how are they forcing anyone, are they coming to your house with guns and saying here you must use this Ez pass or SUnpass ???? I have heard that they want to get more people to use the passes by maybe giving discounts if you use the EZ pass instead of cash
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
bob wrote:

Again what proof they are forcing people and how are they forcing anyone

Thid class action lawsuit is based on nothing at all. These people just decided to sue for no reason...there is nothing to the fact that this has been going on in FLA for "approx 4 yrs...:rolleyes:

Florida Toll Road Sued for Holding Motorists Hostage

"For approximately four years, FDOT and Faneuil have engaged in a practice of detaining motorists and their passengers on the Turnpike System until such motorists provided certain personal information in exchange for their release," attorney James C. Valenti wrote on behalf of the plaintiffs. "The motorists and passengers have been detained without their consent and without legal justification."

Some of those paying in cash object to the idea of carrying the SunPass toll transponder on privacy grounds, but the use of cash is discouraged because it increases operating costs.
 
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AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Where is the proof they are forcing people to use EZ Pass or Sun Pass I see lots of people paying cash on all the toll roads they never refuse to take my cash or refuse other people using cash that I have seen. Amonger says they should have signs saying no large bills before you get on the turnpike sounds stupid to me as for the large bill s there are stores that refuse to take large bills especially late at night but they dont have signs out side that you can see before you pull into the parking lot only a sign at the cash register or some times no sign at all they just tell you when you get to the cash register

First, please use punctuation.

Second, you really don't see the difference?

You go into a 7-11 or some place like that. You pick up a gallon of milk and a Clark Bar. You take them to the register and pull out a $50 bill. The clerk says, "Sorry, no large bills." At that point, you have options. You can go to the ATM and get a smaller bill; you can run over to the business next door and make change and come back with a smaller bill; or you can put the merchandise back. In none of those scenarios are you being detained, and in none of them is the merchant being defrauded.

On the toll road, you drive from Point A to Point B and arrive at the toll booth. You try to pay with a $50 and the toll twerp rejects it. There was no prior notice that that would happen. You can't back up. You can't go elsewhere to get change. You can't just put the merchandise back and tell him to forget it because the "merchandise" is a consumable service of which you've already partaken. You see the difference?

Imagine you go to a restaurant and eat a meal. You try to pay with US currency, but the proprietor tells you he only accepts rubles. In America. You can't put the food back because you've already eaten it. You point out that your currency says it's legal tender for all debts public and private. Now if that restaurant had a sign up saying they only accept rubles, you'd know not to go in there and order a meal. But being no sign, you go in and order a meal. Ooops, looks like you're washing dishes or going to jail, huh?

See the difference?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The problem is that if there is a sign or not, IF they can make change for that bill, then they are legally obliged to take it because that is the law. The same goes for using pennies, the clerk can not refuse pennies because of an inconvenience in handling the money, it is legal tender and they have to take it legally.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
The problem is that if there is a sign or not, IF they can make change for that bill, then they are legally obliged to take it because that is the law. The same goes for using pennies, the clerk can not refuse pennies because of an inconvenience in handling the money, it is legal tender and they have to take it legally.
I wish that were the case, and you would think it would, wouldn't you? I mean, currency does say "legal tender for all debts, public and private," right? So it should be mandatory. I did some checking a few years ago because my cable company wouldn't take my cash at the window. I forget where I read it, but it turned out that taking cash isn't mandatory. I don't remember the specifics. But all that statement means is that when cash is accepted, that satisfies the debt.

There are some localities that mandate that cash must be accepted, though. Some places consider not taking cash to be discriminatory against the poor because they might not have a checking account.

But again, it should be illegal to refuse cash in most situations.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well that's considered a utlity, not a retailer or service provider. A toll is a service, much of it paid for by federal funds and that is one reason why they have to take federal currency.

If I go to a gas station and put $45 worth of fuel in my car, I have to complete a transaction which means they have to accept what I offer in exchange - pennies or paper- as long as they can make change. If I go to pre-pay, they can refuse to take the money because a transaction has not taken place.

If you have to deal with a toll taker who is going to sit there and have you fill out a form, pay them in pennies.
 

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Here is an idea, if you dont like the toll collectors and the toll road because they wont take your lousy large bills, stay off the toll road. No one is holding a gun to your head to use the lousy toll road. I have the I Pass and get discounts for using it instead of paying cash.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Here is an idea, if you dont like the toll collectors and the toll road because they wont take your lousy large bills, stay off the toll road. No one is holding a gun to your head to use the lousy toll road. I have the I Pass and get discounts for using it instead of paying cash.
I should have figured that would be your position: if someone in pseudo-authority is acting unreasonably or illegally, bow to their pseudo-authority anyway. Just gotta lick those boots, don't you?

You remind me of a guy on an email list I'm on. He can't admit he's wrong no matter how many times or ways you demonstrate it, and in the end he lashes out.

Seen the bumpersticker that says "QUESTION AUTHORITY?" Do you have one that says, "DON'T QUESTION AUTHORITY" or "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH?"

ALLRIGHT EVERYBODY, INTO THE BOXCARS, NO TALKING!
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
ALLRIGHT EVERYBODY, INTO THE BOXCARS, NO TALKING!

Seriously? Equating someone telling you to stop complaining about the toll road and not to use them, to bowing to authority and licking their boots, to those being taken to concentration camps by rail cars? wth.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Seriously? Equating someone telling you to stop complaining about the toll road and not to use them, to bowing to authority and licking their boots, to those being taken to concentration camps by rail cars? wth.
Principle-wise, that's not about the toll roads, just the boot-licking mentality. The box cars may be a ways down that road, but it's on the same road. You get there eventually.
 
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