What would war with Russia look like?

[Turtle]

Just seen this today for some that could be in doubt.

Dig at Nazi camp reveals gas chamber, mass graves | Fox News

Of course, those who believe the conspiracy will see this as just part of, nay, proof of, the elaborate hoax, whereby Nazis and Jews alike, and everyone else, is in on it, and the war itself was part of the magician's trick of misdirection that helped set up the entire thing.

 

[davekc]

Of course, those who believe the conspiracy will see this as just part of, nay, proof of, the elaborate hoax, whereby Nazis and Jews alike, and everyone else, is in on it, and the war itself was part of the magician's trick of misdirection that helped set up the entire thing.

There are those.

 

[Maverick]

Of course, those who believe the conspiracy will see this as just part of, nay, proof of, the elaborate hoax, whereby Nazis and Jews alike, and everyone else, is in on it, and the war itself was part of the magician's trick of misdirection that helped set up the entire thing.

And those who would lap up a story, by none other than....Fox News?

For every claim on that side, there is another one...

Auschwitz: Myths and Facts

Mark Weber: 'Extermination' Camp Propaganda Myths

Yes, we have to keep "discovering new things" because this story is coming unraveled, quick, and by they're own admission, per the link sent by another poster.

 

[Ragman]

And those who would lap up a story, by none other than....Fox News?

For every claim on that side, there is another one...

Auschwitz: Myths and Facts

Mark Weber: 'Extermination' Camp Propaganda Myths

Yes, we have to keep "discovering new things" because this story is coming unraveled, quick, and by they're own admission, per the link sent by another poster.

Amazing, just amazing! I just don't understand how supposedly rational people can continue to deny that one of the most horrific events in history ever took place.

 

[tenntrucker]

Amazing, just amazing! I just don't understand how supposedly rational people can continue to deny that one of the most horrific events in history ever took place.

I think I see your problem, you used the word "rational"........

sent from my Galaxy S3

 

[davekc]

And those who would lap up a story, by none other than....Fox News?

For every claim on that side, there is another one...

Auschwitz: Myths and Facts

Mark Weber: 'Extermination' Camp Propaganda Myths

Yes, we have to keep "discovering new things" because this story is coming unraveled, quick, and by they're own admission, per the link sent by another poster.

Good Grief. Fox News is reporting on what is being presented by Life Science. They are having a show on the Smithsonian Channel. Fox really offers no commentary either way.
I guess your thoughts are items are planted and they are doing a show to dig them up?

But I guess some need another source. Here is one from the left.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...linka-excavated-archaeologists_n_5062114.html

 

[Ragman]

Fox really offers no commentary either way.

There is no "either way".

The holocaust happened! Anybody that denies this fact needs some professional help.

 

[Maverick]

I think I see your problem, you used the word "rational"........

sent from my Galaxy S3

Of course, this is not being disputed by one guy on a forum, you do realize? In point of fact, I've stated repeatedly, there is simply another side to the story, which this posters deems more plausible.

Irrational may better describe persons who deny evidence against the story as told...while the irrational claim must also fall on those esteemed in academia, scientist, historical scholars, eye witnesses (including those of Jewish decent) and the wild accusations propagated by the Russians during the time....in order to cover for their own crimes, which are legion.

Don't totally believe either side directly, or in total. However, a rational person would be looking at all evidence. Irrational would tend to scream out "It has to be, it has to be" because they told me so. Ya, they also told you WMD in Iraq (lie) Iraq linked to 911 (lie) Libya a huge threat (lie) Gulf of Tonkin (lie) and on it goes. Irrational would best describe someone who outright believes these people....time and again.

As stated, if people want to place links pointing toward they're view? That's great!

Guess only irrational people would counter with evidence and opinions to the opposite.

 

[Maverick]

Good Grief. Fox News is reporting on what is being presented by Life Science. They are having a show on the Smithsonian Channel. Fox really offers no commentary either way.
I guess your thoughts are items are planted and they are doing a show to dig them up?

But I guess some need another source. Here is one from the left.
First Excavation Of Nazi Death Camp Treblinka Reveals New Horrors

Interesting.

 

[xiggi]

The evidence has been looked at, gone over, reviewed and investigated a thousand times over the years. At some point things pretty much become fact.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

 

[davekc]

There is no "either way".

The holocaust happened! Anybody that denies this fact needs some professional help.

In this case it had to be presented as such because the used source of information was from Fox. Then it was presented as a unreliable source for this type of information. So a alternative piece was added. Don't worry, you don't have to convince me.

 

[EASYTRADER]

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Riech", written by an eye witness to many of the events, actually met Hitler, and knew Goebels and many of the Nazi stooges. He was the Berlin correspondant for CBS I believe was in Germany from the early 30 to 41, and then covered the Nuremburg trial.

"The Nuremburg Trials" - written from the trial transcripts, personal interviews and notebooks of the trial participants. This one is less about the actual events and more about the actual trial and the characters involved, the events are used mainly like back story.

"The third Riech at War" this is a very interesting and detailed look at how the Nazis actually conducted war and implemted the "Final Solution", incidently its a total myth that only the SS murdered people, the Vermacht was just as bad, especially in Belarus, Russia and Poland.

"The third RIech in Power" This book covers how the Nazi political machine actually functioned, has interesting tidbits like how Hitler invented the VW beetle "VolksWagon" or Peoples Car, and sought help from H. Ford to streamline the production line. Then he sold subscriptions, voluntarily at first but then when the war started everyone had to subscribe, no cars were ever delivered but Hitler and his buddies pocketed the money. If you want to see how the Democrat party operates this is the book for you.

Hitler was full of little scams to bilk money from people, like forcing people to buy Mien Kamph or subscritions to Nazi magazines. Or the Nazi WW1 sldiers home, this scam was one of the best, the hitler youth used to go door to door every week or som collecting money for wounded vets of ww1 and the money was kicked upstairs to golighters and other Nazi operadicks - Not a lot of Jew killing in the early years but still plenty of Solindra style channagins and out right thievery, sort of like ObamaCare, using the power of governemnt to force people to buy crap from your idiot friends. LIke MooCHells roomate, built the Ocare website with a 300 million no bid contract, oh yeah she ain't a web engineer, and the site doesn't work.

"The Third Riech in Power" reads like a past history of the Obama regime


Sent from my SPH-D700 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[Turtle]

Amazing, just amazing! I just don't understand how supposedly rational people can continue to deny that one of the most horrific events in history ever took place.

It's simple, really. They accept questions, allegations and assertions as somehow being evidence of something. These people do not know what real, actual evidence is. The two links above that purport to provide evidence against, the first provides conclusions based on assumption, and the second is just statements of falsehoods with no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Neither of these sites provide evidence.

My favorite is where Webster uses, as evidence, that "there is no contemporary documentary evidence of homicidal gassings or of a policy of mass extermination in the camps." Contemporary documents. Well, duh. For one, that's not evidence that mass exterminations did not occur. There are boatloads of historical documents, documents that were prepared at the time, including IBM punch cards, that show irrefutable evidence of the Holocaust. True enough, those historical documents aren't contemporary documents. But such evidence doesn't support his position, so he's not gonna talk about that. Conspiracy theorists and deniers are famous for presenting evidence that's not evidence and calling it evidence. They don't know what evidence is.

 

[aristotle]

Let's not allow skeptics to confuse the term "contemporary documents" with contemporaneous evidence. The Holocaust is perhaps the most well documented atrocity of the modern era. The historical record is buttressed by literally warehouses full of contemporaneous evidence meaning eyewitness testimony, photographic evidence, video and audio accounts recorded in real time as events unfolded.

Contemporaneous evidence is the gold standard for preserving truth. An example of contemporaneous evidence capturing actual events in real time would be the newsreel footage showing the Hindenburg disaster.

We are fortunate to live in modern times where irrefutable facts of history are preserved for posterity.

 

[Pilgrim]

Back to the original subject matter for a moment, this article could give us an idea how the US vs Russia conflict would begin to materialize between proxies. Iran continues to have significant Russian backing and the Obama administration continues to allow them to develop nuclear weapons as "talks" supposedly continue. The likelihood of war in the Middle East grows with each passing day. Israel isn't the only Iranian neighbor concerned about Iranian nukes, and at some point one of them could get tired of the never-ending Obama amateur hour of foreign policy and take unilateral pre-emptive action. Meanwhile, Syria - the Iranian proxy also receiving Russian aid - continues to destabilize the region with their civil war, providing a training ground for Islamic terrorist groups. BTW, what ever happened to those chemical weapons Assad agreed to get rid of?

State Dept. Slaps Iran, Says Tehran "Very Actively" Evading Sanctions, Developing Nukes & Ballistic Missiles - The Tower - The Tower

 

[Jamin_Joe]

From the news today, looks like the Bear has been awaken. Poopin, intented, warned Ukraine not to use force to put down the riots it started. Typical tactic out of the Socializm playbook, create uprising by the disadvantaged and then toss them like yesterdays newspaper.

 

[Maverick]

Turtle;678547]It's simple, really. They accept questions, allegations and assertions as somehow being evidence of something. These people do not know what real, actual evidence is. The two links above that purport to provide evidence against, the first provides conclusions based on assumption, and the second is just statements of falsehoods with no evidence whatsoever to back it up. Neither of these sites provide evidence.

Just like your assumptions.....and so called evidence. I believe we have some quotes in the articles, which I would consider just as valid as your testimony, probably more so. And what you have is testimony, which is not proof.

My favorite is where Webster uses, as evidence, that "there is no contemporary documentary evidence of homicidal gassings or of a policy of mass extermination in the camps."

It probably is your favorite, since it can be interpreted two ways. I believe what he's saying here is; even during modern investigation, there has been no real evidence produced, or found.

There are boatloads of historical documents, documents that were prepared at the time, including IBM punch cards, that show irrefutable evidence of the Holocaust.

False. The punch cards prove absolutely nothing to this regard. They were merely a tool for keeping information on populace. If you do a little research, you'll find they are actually detrimental to your case. As for the boatloads, wrong again. There is not one German document which purports what you claim. No mention whatsoever of death camps. Boasting of tons of documents, meticulous book keeping, and how they kept such great records....and not one mention of death camps, purposeful extermination, or processes to the aforementioned.

IBM punch cards really are a howler, because if they were used to prove something, they miscounted how many times? Do some homework and see how many times this number changed. Must of been some serious hanging chad action here.

Conspiracy theorists and deniers are famous for presenting evidence that's not evidence and calling it evidence. They don't know what evidence is.

Evidence you cannot produce. If brought into an honest court, those theorists would demand real proof, which you do not hold. You're right, deniers are famous for that....and run off hearsay, accusation, and pictures (which mean very little, unless proof of your claims are contained therein). Custer had a better chance at The Big Horn, than you do here. Aside from what you've been told? What is your evidence?

 

[Turtle]

It is not my position or intention to produce evidence in this forum of the Holocaust. The evidence is already out there, and it is overwhelming. I have no interest in debating someone who approaches reality from a position of fantasy. Two people couldn't keep a white stain on a blue dress a secret, yet the cooperation required to pull off a hoax the size of the Holocaust is millions of people over multiple generations. That's not reality, that's fantasy.

 

[davekc]

Been away for a few days. Maverick....really? Just a little too much proof out there on this one. As mentioned, if anyone wanted this buried, it would be the Germany. Even they can't run from it. Just too much out there.

 

[Maverick]

Been away for a few days. Maverick....really? Just a little too much proof out there on this one. As mentioned, if anyone wanted this buried, it would be the Germany. Even they can't run from it. Just too much out there.

Been dern busy myself, but that's a good thing.

Really wanted to let this one wither on the vine. However, the accusation aspect called for one rebuttal, and now it's done. To run blanket statements of falsehood against those who have investigated this to the ump degree, and write what they have found, is a bit crass in my view. And this person is not a conspiracy "theorist", but rather someone who investigates, once a theory holds fact, justifying a move forward.

Put another way, someone in America, typing on a laptop in a van somewhere, will not change what others have found. Believe what you want, I say.

There is no "trying this case" on the forum, or elsewhere; nor does this poster advocate such a thing. But neither is this poster here to be ridiculed, for not necessarily believing exactly as others do. Believe what you want and I'll do the same. If not, then we can just fold the 1st Amendment up....it's about over anyway, and in this case, is over.