We need more gun control

[LDB]

You are right. I don't expect Cal to publicly answer. I just hope he's forced to at least internally acknowledge his position is abjectly wrong based on the scenario given. That it could be someone else's child and not his own doesn't change the facts.

I have also said that any teacher desiring training should be properly trained and equipped to be able to handle these situations. Additionally, remove the foolish restrictions on me and other like me. I'll admit now that I never let that stop me. When I was at my daughter's schools I was fully prepared to defend them as well as the children of the Cal's who attended there. Thankfully I never needed to but I was prepared, equipped and ready if need be.

I have a friend who is a championship winning shooter and trainer. When I trained with him he said I have one advantage some don't have. I look like the meek accountant that gets overlooked as a threat. I have as much will as anyone though and believe evil deserves nothing more than extermination. I'm not close to as good as he is but practically nobody is. I'm good enough to not fear though.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
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[joebob1_30132]

>Boy greg, you sure are paranoid from the big bad terrorist.
>I can see the American paranoia shining thru..Guns. guns
>guns, You get what you reap...Bigger guns, Automatic guns..


BLA BLA BLAA BLAA BLAA BLAA thank God we have had your backs all these years O Canada ...Keep your sling shots and that one battle ship because hiding behind Moms apron all these years wont do you any good where the adults play...in fact go ahead and cut me a check for all the taxes ive paid for you to sit and sip coffee and pontificate about your crap healthcare system yall are always bragging about cuz you havnt had to spend a dime on defense..WHY???? cuz we got you squishy arses covered ...I would rather have a rock throwing Palistnian backing me up. then listen to the senseless nieve dribble you shoot out of your pie holes..
Greg paranoid ???? More like realistic ,,Keep your polyana ideals up there north when we need some cookies baked or someone to write childrens books we'll give you Canadians a buz..meanwhile stay out of the way while we try to get something done... My God forgive me if I come off to harsh ..but ive never been good with kids.

 

[tallcal101]

Needless to say,as a result of your "yea Leo,your right,lets nail TC"and your a** kissing ways,I will not dignify this brainless argument about the mass killing of our young people,the heartless rationalaztion that shooting targets makes you a man,or that being armed some how equates to being safe.Your no better then gang bangers.I know,it's not the guns the 10 years olds are using to kill each other for $10.00 worth of crack.It's what the parents are doing to them.Black parents no doubt.
The facts are there on murder in America(key word for you my friend"murder").
Instead of of being a little yes man,how about you looking up a few facts from somewhere other then Leo's rantings.I did,and you maybe surprised on the what the various peace officer's associations stats are on violent crime within our communities are.Crimes of passion, resulting in murder, in bedroom communities,far out distance the closest second,which is children killing themselves or their friends with weapons in the house,taking up a third place position is suicide.Then hold ups etc.
Now what does that tell you my ill informed friend? .
These statistics are not available from the NRA by the way.They choose to stack the deck the other way.As your party,and all the pathetic Republican con men and shysters head to jail or under their rocks,you all seem so helpless and desparate in your rantings about guns,the war etc.Attacking the left is fun,but you all know it's about the mandate of your neighbors and friends to toss the bums out.Enough is enough.Your a growing minority, and it's hard to take.
So far,in 60 years,I have not had to pull my "big iron" out and sneak up on the boogie man and blow his brains out.
Sleep well ,don't let that boogie man get you.And read a little more,it's good for the brain.I would suggest the recently released Biography of Colin Powell,very insightful.I'll loan you my copy.

 

[Black Sheep]

This comes back around to the issue of dealing with mentally disturbed individuals determined to commit mass murder as a means toward their own self aggrandizement. In the case of Columbine, those two kids were giving off all kinds of warning signs and everyone - especially their parents - was in denial when it came to recognizing that these kids were seriously screwed up. They were making propane bombs in their parents' garage! With the nut case at Va. Tech, more information has come out that he was ordered by a judge to undergo psychiatric therapy because he was determined by a doctor to be a danger to himself and others. Neither the court system nor the administration at Va Tech followed up on this order, and we see what happened. In both of these cases, if there hadn't been firearms accessable to these wackos, they would have figured out something else to use as a deadly device. The largest death toll from a school attack in the US took place back in 1927 by a disgruntled employee who set off a fire bomb in an elementary school.

With all the publicity we see today about the suicide/homicide bombers in the middle east and Israel, it's not a stretch to imagine some nutty kid doing the same thing at a crowded school function - no gun needed. Maybe we need more agressive policies toward individuals that exhibit this type of psychotic anti-social behavior. The schools need more authority to remove them from the general population until it's determined they have all their screws tight. The courts need to be able to confine unstable adults to institutions rather than let them run loose on the streets.

In closing I'll restate this undeniable fact of life - no amount of laws and regulations on firearms will prevent access to them by criminals and lunatics. Our problems lie with the moral decay of our culture and our tolerance of anti-social behavior, not the availability of guns.

 

[Moot]

Well said Black Sheep!

 

[cheri1122]

In the recent shooting in Va, the perpetrator had been sentenced two years earlier to 'seek mental help', as he was judged to be a danger to others. However, in Va, the judge has no authority to enforce his own orders, and the mental health officials are all passing the buck - it appears that when an individual is deemed mentally ill, the person responsible for ensuring his treatment is - wait for it - the mentally ill individual himself!
TallCall, the lack of guns won't stop the crazies, they'll just find another way to perpetrate their craziness. And the children who can get their hands on a weapon, are the product of irresponsible parents or guardians. Just like the unattended toddlers who get hit by vehicles, every day, or drown, because their so called guardians weren't doing their job.
I know it sounds trite, but nevertheless, it's still true: when guns are outlawed, the outlaws will still have guns - and the rest of us will be even more defenceless.

 

[lanier1]

You're right Cal, I should have done my own research before agreeing and "kissing a**". Leo was off on the point about swimming pools. In 2003 287 children died from drowning in pools (that doesn't include drownings in the ocean, bathtub or anywhere else but I'll give you the point).

Here are some facts for you. In 2003 more 10 to 19 year olds die from gunshot wounds than any other cause EXCEPT auto accidents. 90% of the victims are boys and in the 15 to 19 year old age group they are more than four times likely to be black than white. These stats were taken from Gun Guys, an extreme left wing anti-gun lobby.

There were 16,137 murders in 2004 and 16,885 alcohol related deaths in 2005. In 2005 guns were used 2.5 million times to stop crimes from being committed according to Dr. Gary Kleck,PHD, School of Criminology and Justice at FSU.

In the mid to late 80's I lived in Kennesaw, Ga., a town made famous by a law that was passed in 1982 requiring each home to possess a gun. Crime in Kennesaw dropped 89% compared to 10.4% for the rest of Ga.. Ten years later the crime rate was still 72% lower than it had been in 1981.

Draw your own conclusions and feel free to talk amongst yourselves...

 

[tallcal101]

I understand that we will never get the guns off the streets.The gun lobby has been to strong for too many years.It has been allowed to manufacture hand guns at a pace that is truly sickning and shocking.
The statistics about who is is killing who AND the reasons for the killings is my point here.
The peace officers associations are niether right wing nor left wing orginizations.Their statistics are based on whats going on in their various regions around the county.Their memberships are made up of those putting their a**'s on the line for all of us each day.
They are overwhelmingly in favor of a rational approach to hand gun control.What is the biggest fear they all have while on duty?An out of control domestic situation where there is alchohol and a hand gun.
The number of guns used to kill an intruder in a private residence is so small as to be insignificant.Thats why we have locks folks.BIG locks for big boogie men.
As most of you know,I have been privliaged to have spent alot of time oversea's.Say what you wish about the good old red white and blue,we have problems.When viewed from a far,by counties that are not perfect either,but have a rational approach gun control,the daily news from America,paticularly on those days when we slaughter our young people,does not cast our country in a light that is much better then what is going daily in Iraq.Bloody,horrible pictures of sensless violence as a result of our "right"to kill.
I was in Thailand on busines when Columbine occured,and found myself having to try and explain to the very peaceful people who live there why we are really a great peace loving people.We are,except when it comes to the wholesale disregard for putting guns in the hands of anyone who wants one.I simply do not buy the premise that these people would find other ways to wipe out 30 people in 15 minutes if they could not get their hands on semiautomatic hand guns.
We are unique in the world when it comes slaughter,and we justify it as a right.We look pretty confused to many world communities who love so much about our country.They just don't understand the headlines.

 

[LDB]

Using the CDC website statistical system that allows inquiry based on desired criteria and using age 14 and under as range in the year 2000 there were 904 drowning deaths and 419 firearms deaths. These are the gross numbers with no weighting for race, accidental/intentional or any other variables, just the total number who died that year from each cause. Firearms deaths in "children" become grossly skewed because the age used for "children" is 19 and under which takes in huge numbers of gang bangers. Using anything over 14 years of age without taking into account the criminal gang activity grossly misrepresents things. Even 14 brings in many gangsters. By using under 10 as the range the numbers are 736 to 142. Certainly we need more firearms training for children to make them gun safe. The fact still remains that drowning kills multiples of children compared to firearms so we should put our "bans" where they will do the most good.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[LDB]

Cal, while I have not spent time overseas I did work for a number of years in the firearms and self protection industry. I had ongoing contact with numerous Houston police officers. While the "official" department position of numerous departments, as well as the chiefs of police, may be one in favor of gun control that is not the belief of rank and file officers. A few share that position but the overwhelming majority of the men and women on the street are opposed, at least if what they told me to my face is to be believed.

I'll again ask you Cal, if your daughter or anyone important to you were in one of these situations would you choose to 1. wait for the police to arrive and eventually get around to acting, 2. hope that you or one of your like minded friends were there to talk the situation through or 3. hope that I or one of my like minded friends were there and would use our equipment and skills to end the situation?

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[lanier1]

I search and search through Cal's ramblings and musings for facts and figures but find nothing but "feelings" and things he's "heard". Frankly, I could care less what the people of Thailand or any other country think of us. If they feel the way you say why do they all want to come here?

Keep in mind we are a very large country with a very large population. Things are going to happen and our media doesn't let anything go unreported. Not that I think they should, I am just saying the media doesn't have the same freedoms in the rest of the world that we enjoy. Imagine that. How did we get those freedoms??? I think we did it by rebeling against a tyranical government. How could we do that...??? BECAUSE WE HAD GUNS AND THAT IS WHY THE SECOND AMMENDMENT IS THERE AND WHY IT IS STILL VALID TO THIS DAY!!!!!!

I guess you have forgotten the Oklahoma City tragedy and the fact no guns were needed for that. How about the fact that the little darlings responsible for the Columbine tragedy had the makings of pipe bombs at home and in their possession?

You are correct, the mumber of criminals killed by a homeowner with a gun is very small. The number of criminals scared off, however, by a homeowner brandishing a gun is huge. Look it up.

Leo, thanks for straightening me out on the drownings, I stand corrected.

 

[tallcal101]

What troubles me here is that I'm seeking a rational approach to hand gun ownership,not "gun control".Neither of you seem to see be open to anything that even approach's a concern that perhaps our current system of back ground checks etc. might be flawed.With Virginia Tech we now know for certainty that the feds and the states are out of synch.The end result is bloddy mess's like VT.It is unspeakable that such an event can be carried off by a well documented crazy.Houston,we have a problem.
But it goes deeper,much deeper.Our culture (certain segments anyway)refuse to look at the statistics that support a rational approach and dismiss such thoughts as getting in the way of their rights.
Please don't confuse what I'm suggesting as "gun control"unless your in agreement that all is rosy and squeaky clean with the current set of laws and standards in this wide open mostly unregulated industry.
If you think all is Ok,then at least regognize that it's the guns OK?Your blindness to this fact by introducing swimming pools and cars is nothing more then defletion and gets zero credit from me for continuing down the same path.
L,believe it or not there are people who live in other far away place's who do not have our wealth,or aspire to have a bigger boat,or 4 wheeler or stupid materialistic toys who love their life,and don't wish to come here.But they do love the America we export through Hollywood,or through our open culture,or our music.
You,and so many others who have this notion that"they all want to come here"are very mistaken.They just feel the pain when they see what we,as a supposed world leader,to do each other.Is that hard for you to understand?Do you just dismiss them as low life ignorant folks who can't wait to invade our borders?My advise,get out of Tennesee for a while and take an adventure oversea's,and I don't mean Canada.

 

[LDB]

Cal, I wasn't aware of your hearing problem so let me try this and see if it helps. For the third time now Cal, If your daughter or anyone important to you were in one of these situations would you choose to 1. wait for the police to arrive and eventually get around to acting, 2. hope that you or one of your like minded friends were there to talk the situation through or 3. hope that I or one of my like minded friends were there and would use our equipment and skills to end the situation promptly before more lives are lost?

We have sensible gun ownership laws now, just as we have sensible ownership laws for other things. You are allowed to own and properly use inanimate objects of all sorts. When you misuse them you will suffer the consequences. How is pointing out that 5 times as many children drown as are killed by firearms, and that's all types not just handguns so the disparity is even greater when you focus on handguns, not relevant? I don't have the vision problem. You have the vision problem in wanting to categorize one inanimate object differently than other inanimate objects. Look at the number dead first and then what caused it.

DON'T FORGET THE IMPORTANT QUESTION AT THE TOP.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[lanier1]

In the first place I don't live in Tennessee but it is a beautiful state and I would be proud to live there. If I were from California, however, I would not be so proud...

We have adequate laws already on the books for gun purchasing and ownership. They just need to be enforced. I agree that this idiot should not have been able to purchase a weapon. If the current laws had been enforced and the different government agencies had been able to tag him with a label that would follow him he would not have been able to purchase a gun. I imagine that this was not done because his rights and privacy would have somehow been violated. Heaven forbid we violate anyones rights or do any racial profiling at airports or use any means neccessary to interogate suspects at Guantanimo or face the facts that more teens killing and being killed by guns are black. Did I say that out loud? Please forgive my political incorrectness.

Your point about foreigners admiring us for Hollywood doesn't gain you anything with me. They are entertainers and nothing more. They exist for our amusement and should never be taken any more serious because of their star status alone.

 

[tallcal101]

My hearing is fine Leo,but unlike you,I don't haver blinders on my eyes.I suggest taking them off from time to time to let a little light in.Just a suggestion.
Regarding my daughter,I can tell you she is a very bright,very savi tough cookie.She does not share my views on on this subject,however she in not a gun owner as far as I know.She has considered gun ownership,and has been to the range and taken instructions on saftey and the proper use of hand guns.As a single female living in the mountains,I have not intruded in her choice to either be armed or not.I don't know if you have a daughter,but I have learned to give advise when it's asked for,otherwise stay out of it.
I don't happen to share your opinion that the need to have a deadly weapon at hand is the single most important thing in the world,or maybe the second.I don't live a sheltered life,and move around freely.I stay out of known dangerous place's,and stay alert.So far,niethee me or anyone in my family,or for that matter anyone I know,have been subject to needeing to have our life saved by an armed bystander who happens to be there with a gun to kill our stalker or whatever.Could it happen?Could we at some point in our life need this protection?Yes,it is possible.Do I live my life thinking it's just around the corner,no.And niether do my kids,or most of my friends and family.
But in the event that such a situation took place,such as VT,and it could have been avoided by armed security,ofcourse I would be happy if even one life was saved.But you can't read the future.
Your question is a little like what if the sky were falling.Since no one can anticitpate future events like VT,I'm not in favor of more guns,and more gun ownership so we can be prepared for the unknown.
We all know that the statistics tell us guns kill many more innocent family members then bad guys.
Blinders off Leo,let a little the light in.

 

[LDB]

Cal, I'm glad you finally sort of answered the question. I realize you can't just come out and answer it because the answer is the opposite of your position. I am not wearing blinders. I also am aware of the "statistics" saying guns kill more innocents than not. I'm just as aware that the facts do not back up the statistics. Innocents are killed 11% more by police than by citizens such as myself. That's a fact. In cases like VT, having police present increases the likelihood of innocents being killed compared to the presence of citizens such as myself.

I have two daughters that I would give my life for in an instant. I plan to do all in my power to avoid that if other solutions are available. To that end, I've had CPR training. Should I ignore someone in need and wait for a doctor to arrive? I've taken defensive driving. Should I ignore such available training? I carry 2 fire extinguishers in my truck. I had a training class by the fire department on proper usage. Should I ignore a fellow citizen in their own burning car and wait for firemen? I've trained with professionals in firearms safety and use. Should I wait for police and hope to not be part of the 11%?

Cal, you are the one in blinders. You will come back telling me there's no correlation at all between an inanimate fire extinguisher and an inanimate firearm. You'll say I'm ignoring the issues or deflecting or distracting or any of the many other tactics taught at LWACU to try to ignore a valid point. Actually that is what the anti-gun side does all the time. Look at how many times it took for me to even get a partial answer from you to a direct question. The fact remains that legislating against objects is a futile exercise. Only making a guaranteed consequence far more severe than the greatest possible benefit imagined from an action will change things.

I applaud your daughter's open mind and her understanding that guns are not evil and should be the choice of each individual, not the decision of the liberals and politicians. I only hope her clearer vision is contagious.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[tallcal101]

This has become you and me and the other guy.I believe we have reached more middle ground then in the past,which please's me.
Time to move on.As always,I agree to disagree,and respect your opinion and the spririted debate we enjoy.
Now,if I could only encouage you to move that heavy right side anchor you so proudly wear a slight nod to the left.It might lighten your load Leo,you never know.Be safe,and I'm glad you have daughters too.I'm sure your as proud of them as I am of mine(my son too).