Vietnam

[arkjarhead]

I was thinking today, I know this is very dangerous, I wonder if there are any American servicemen still in Vietnam. Maybe being held against their will all this time? I know some of the Vietnam Vets up at the VA claim there are. Just curious what some of you guys think.

 

[greg334]

I think there are, no doubt.

Learning what the Chinese had a hand in during the Korean War, I think there were some taken away and used.

When I was in high school, I had a teacher who was retired Navy Intel, leaving as a Captain. He was about to retire from teaching and the last month of his carer he spent telling us about WW2 and Korea. It was really scary as a 17 year old kid hearing what the Chinese did to prisoners about our age in Korea.

 

[arkjarhead]

Well I've heard the Chinese and the Russians played a bigger role in Vietnam than some would like to admit. There is no doubt in my mind that they supplied arms to the north.

 

[Jayman]

Well I've heard the Chinese and the Russians played a bigger role in Vietnam than some would like to admit.There is no doubt in my mind that they supplied arms to the north.

Of course they did. North Vietnam didnt make their own AK 47s. Not putting you down or anything. I enjoy reading your stuff, arkjarhead. But, this is pretty much common knowledge for people who know military history.

 

[arkjarhead]

Well this purpose was to see if someone had a different view of it than myself.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

And the U.S supplied the Afgans to defeat the Russian and now the Afgans or some branch of them are beating our butts
4 more US troops killed yesterday in Afgan alone...

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Tin jihads and bin Laden's coming. 4 dead in Kandahar.

Since we're talking about Vietnam, 4 dead would've been welcome news in that war. Yes... this is a WAR. If you have the mindset that we were going to come out barely soiled, as in the Gulf War, this is a helluva wake up call, eh? We're fighting ppl who want to kill us, this time. Kinda like in Vietnam. But the world only wants to fight if they're taking on conscripts in the open desert.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Tin jihads and bin Laden's coming. 4 dead in Kandahar.

Since we're talking about Vietnam, 4 dead would've been welcome news in that war. Yes... this is a WAR. If you have the mindset that we were going to come out barely soiled, as in the Gulf War, this is a helluva wake up call, eh? We're fighting ppl who want to kill us, this time. Kinda like in Vietnam. But the world only wants to fight if they're taking on conscripts in the open desert.

Maybe we should ship some of "them people" over to the war zone? Let them get a feel for bombs dropping shredded bodies of women and children and thier best friend....Most myself included have no real feel for the destruction of war....9/11 was only a sample and people were scared crapless....imaging that happening everyday every couple hours in every major city for months on end...most can't even fathom or thier mind can't handle that thought....

 

[greg334]

Maybe we should ship some of "them people" over to the war zone? Let them get a feel for bombs dropping shredded bodies of women and children and thier best friend....Most myself included have no real feel for the destruction of war....9/11 was only a sample and people were scared crapless....imaging that happening everyday every couple hours in every major city for months on end...most can't even fathom or thier mind can't handle that thought....

OVM, so if you don't want to return to another 9/11, what can be done?

Removing the troops?

Not defending our way of life?

Remember that the art of war has come so far to the point that we can be more concern with Civilians that we could have even 20 years ago. But as many point out, War is Hell and we can't be lax in our efforts to stop something that affects not only us but the rest of the world.

Ark, I forgot about the Russians but the Psychology stuff was all done by the Chinese, something like the Manchurian candidate thing.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

OVM, so if you don't want to return to another 9/11, what can be done?

Removing the troops?

Not defending our way of life?

Remember that the art of war has come so far to the point that we can be more concern with Civilians that we could have even 20 years ago. But as many point out, War is Hell and we can't be lax in our efforts to stop something that affects not only us but the rest of the world.

Ark, I forgot about the Russians but the Psychology stuff was all done by the Chinese, something like the Manchurian candidate thing.

Nope I didn't say that....I said like you...gotts keep the pressure on them guys....kissin and huggin them like Obama says he goina do will only encourage them...

To Mr. Obanana.....THEY want us dead! They hate us! There is NO conciliation...period.

 

[arkjarhead]

I've met OVM once. From that face to face meeting I learned to consider him a patriot of this country. You should have seen how proud he was to show us he was a legal resident (I can't remember your new status Ken) of the US. He had an ear to ear grin showing my wife and I that i.d. card. I think if Ken was a young man he may even join our military like many of us here did. Trust me he doesn't want the Arabs to win this thing. At least that's what I picked up on. Unless he is good at decieving people, which I don't think he is.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I've met OVM once. From that face to face meeting I learned to consider him a patriot of this country. You should have seen how proud he was to show us he was a legal resident (I can't remember your new status Ken) of the US. He had an ear to ear grin showing my wife and I that i.d. card. I think if Ken was a young man he may even join our military like many of us here did. Trust me he doesn't want the Arabs to win this thing. At least that's what I picked up on. Unless he is good at decieving people, which I don't think he is.

Joe..thanks for the kudos....and your correct...I don't want the radicals to win this and I think being tough on them is the way to go....no backing down, no giving ground, thats why I think McCain maybe the way to go....OBama wants to "negotiate" DOH??? Is that like kiss and make up? NOT...
They (radicals) have to know that the U.S and or the coalition will in no uncertain terms be ready to do battle should they cross the line...a firm but fair position....

oh about that joining the military....*LOL* I honestly don't know that I would...BUT I wouldn't hestitate about blowing some sucker away that threatened to harm my country or family.

 

[arkjarhead]

Will you be allowed to vote in Nov. ? I couldn't remeber if you told me you had obtained that status or not yet. I know you told they have given you the right to pay taxes, but I wasn't sure about voting.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Will you be allowed to vote in Nov. ? I couldn't remeber if you told me you had obtained that status or not yet. I know you told they have given you the right to pay taxes, but I wasn't sure about voting.

Nope no voting for me yet...but yeah they will allow me to pay taxes...another 20 months....Must be a citizen to vote I'am a lowly Permanent Resident.
I get the next president.....the way it's going that person might be an illegal with all the rights they are getting....sheshh...

For Greg....BTW I heard they may change the requirement to be US born for president so Arnie and Grenholm can run a next term...*LOL*

 

[tallcal101]

In fact,much like Iraq, America invaded Vietnam for all the wrong reason,with very poor planning.Since the country had napalm bombs going off and killing thousands of innocent civilians,it ****ed some people off. Like the VIETNAMESE.And you know what people who are invaded and watch their children being burned to death in a very ugly fashion do?
They mobilize,take guns from whomever is offering,and kick the s*** out of the invaders.
End of the storey.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

When we first went in it was a war...now its a limited response police action.....this is where it gets messy...we never were any good at it.....how can a soldier soldier when they have to ask permission to shoot??? I do believe we've lost every confrontation. Korea is a tie.
We invaded and won shoulda planted our flag and set-up shop...and made it official....That we are the big dog in the yard now!!

 

[greg334]

In fact,much like Iraq, America invaded Vietnam for all the wrong reason,with very poor planning.

In FACT that is wrong.

We invaded Iraq, we were asked to be in Vietnam, or are you forgetting that part. Maybe the 150,000 north Vietnamese who invaded had something to do with our troops being there, maybe?

Like the VIETNAMESE.And you know what people who are invaded and watch their children being burned to death in a very ugly fashion do?
They mobilize,take guns from whomever is offering,and kick the s*** out of the invaders.

No not end of story, lets tell it like it really happened.

The people over here were tired of the war with the media and others constantly complaining about it.

The NVA and the north's leaders were committed to the war to the point and after the war they admitted that they were beat but it was the all American protester who came to their rescue. With Jane Fonda and her Photo Op and Cronkite saying the war is lost, we had a moral problem let alone it was strengthening the enemy a lot to keep fighting.

The congress finally pulled funding out from under the troops and that is were the real fun started. There was such a blood letting that they are still finding mass graves over there.

I think the French are to blame for Vietnam, because if we didn't have to kiss their defeated a** at the end of WW2, Vietnam would have been a free and independent country but we just could not trust them Vietnamese to run their own country, the French could do it better even though they were defeated and didn't have much of a military to begin with. Oh by the way, the French also did a lot of blood letting by mass execution of collaborators in trying to free Vietnam.

We can blame the French for the UN, seeing the French language is also the official language of the UN.

 

[tallcal101]

Kennedy was the man at the helm,and he started the ball rolling. No question his intention were dubious.
However,by 1968,it was clear to all that this war was less about the Vietnamese than about the profit of war. The complete mishandiling of this was again the result of civilian soldiers overruling and conspireing with misinformed Generals who were nothing but puppets and yes men for the the administration,and I mean all ,both Dem and Repubs.
Nixon,however,did not know how to spell the word truth,and conspired to commit absolute barbarinism against the Vietnamese people.Truly horrendous. If we can't beat them we will napalm the s**t out of every villiage and city and rice paddy under the sun. Then turn tail and leave the North to deal out punsihhment to the South.
I maintain that the whole exercisze has much more in common with Iraq then most want to admit. Nothing will be won by our sacrifice that won't be realighned and retaliated for once we leave.
I still don't understand why a group of Seals or spcial op's teams could not have taken out Sadam. They would have settled the power struggles themselves,and we would not be up to our necks in this bloddy mess.

 

[arkjarhead]

The reason I ask questions about Vietnam is because I wasn't alive for the event. All I know is what I have read in history books. I think we can all agree that history texts are always completely truthful.

TallCal,
I'm glad you chimed in, and I mean that honestly. While we don't always agree on things I do enjoy hearing about things from another perspective. I have to agree with you last paragragh. A group of Navy Seals, Marine Recon, Army Rangers, British Comandos could have easily taken out Saddam. Just like I think they could Bin laden.

There is a man I admire, and I have a slight feeling you may not but that is ok. He suggested this to W and was shot down. His name is Mr. Colin Powell. Again I wish he was running for President, but alas, he won't. Anyway. He also told the first George Bush if we into Baghdad we would have a hard time getting out. Man that was right on. He also told W if only invaded from the south that the insurgents would scatter and then reappear. He said we should invade from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. Saudi Arabia and Turkey wanted nothing to do with it. So W decided to go ahead against Colin Powell's advice. Then W hung Powell out to dry. What a friend he is.

 

[greg334]

I still don't understand why a group of Seals or spcial op's teams could not have taken out Sadam. They would have settled the power struggles themselves,and we would not be up to our necks in this bloddy mess.

Because it would have left a bigger mess with some of the same people in place. Saddam was not the only one who did bad things, his sons and a bunch of his generals also did bad things. But think about this for a minute, we set the people on a course to decide what they wanted to do and they put Saddam and others on trial, not the US or the World Court, but the people, isn't that a good thing by your standards?