Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Now you see why we CAN'T leave.
Having a small force go in and kill Saddam would be about as successful as trying to rescue our embassy in 79. We all know how that turned out.
Vietnam
- Thread starter arkjarhead
- Start date
Now you see why we CAN'T leave.
Having a small force go in and kill Saddam would be about as successful as trying to rescue our embassy in 79. We all know how that turned out.
TJ959
Veteran Expediter
I did not go to Vietnam but I was in the service during that time and what I see in the news and hear from many folks really worries me. I have very vivid memories of young kids with long hair spitting on young kids with short hair because they were wearing uniforms. People called greiving parents who had lost sons and told them their kids deserved to die because they were baby killers. Many returning servicemen could not return to a normal life because they felt unwelcome in their home towns and treated as criminals. There were hundreds of thousands of young guys abandoned by their government and their former friends. Now we are headed that way again.
The people who did this to our returning servicemen did so with the best of intentions. They did it in the name of peace, and love, and tolerance, and liberal thinking. Best of all any one who didn't agree with them didn't deserve to have an opinion. LET'S NOT ABANDON OUR YOUNG GUYS AND GALS AGAIN.
The people who did this to our returning servicemen did so with the best of intentions. They did it in the name of peace, and love, and tolerance, and liberal thinking. Best of all any one who didn't agree with them didn't deserve to have an opinion. LET'S NOT ABANDON OUR YOUNG GUYS AND GALS AGAIN.
The Vietnamese didn't kick anything out of anybody (except the French ) . They never won a single military battle . The Viet Cong were eliminated as a fighting force . North Viet Nam couldn't win as long as we were there . Were we supposed to stay there forever to prevent the inevitable ? Same situation in Iraq . Those brave Iraqis that surrendered so easily in the Gulf War and were so easily neutralized in this occupation will never be able to stand alone and defend their country .
But to reply to the original post , there were no bout Americans in captivity after the war ended but the youngest of them would be in their late 50's now . I doubt any have survived this long .
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always confused
Seasoned Expediter
were we in vietnam for the wrong reason... humm to soon to tell. its been said it aint history until a 100 years have gone by .. so by that critiera it still current events and decision must be held in reserve. did we lose? or give up? indications are we gave up because the polititians wouldn't stay the course. will we do the same in the middle east? if we give up how will it affect us? will we be subject to more attacks? can we ignore the middle east like we did the southeast asia...
???
I feel that our military didn't lose in vietnam, but was withdrawn. we are not 'fighting' a war in the middle east, but are acting as policemen... .. trying to maintain the peace...
one of the problems is armys aren't suppose to maintain peace. they are designed to kill people and destroy things. ours is really good at that. but we don't want them to do that now. unfortunately the local populace doesn't have any problem killing and maiming us.
they have no respect for us or their countrymen (women or children) if it advances their own agenda... unfortunately political reasons prevent our military from teaching them respect..... the problems involve all sorts of things, but mainly the inability to accept collaterial damage... ie lots of innocent dead people to get rid of a few baddies....
such is life and death.
???
I feel that our military didn't lose in vietnam, but was withdrawn. we are not 'fighting' a war in the middle east, but are acting as policemen... .. trying to maintain the peace...
one of the problems is armys aren't suppose to maintain peace. they are designed to kill people and destroy things. ours is really good at that. but we don't want them to do that now. unfortunately the local populace doesn't have any problem killing and maiming us.
they have no respect for us or their countrymen (women or children) if it advances their own agenda... unfortunately political reasons prevent our military from teaching them respect..... the problems involve all sorts of things, but mainly the inability to accept collaterial damage... ie lots of innocent dead people to get rid of a few baddies....
such is life and death.
Jayman
Expert Expediter
Well said. Thank you.
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
I gotta agree with you on this one. It has already happened though. My Mom had a sticker on her car that said proud parent of a U.S. Marine in the back glass of her car. Some woman called her the b word, said I was a baby killer, and threatened my mom. So my step-dad took the sticker off. Can't say I blame him. It was one of those tolerant, peace loving, hippies like our friend TallCal that did it.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
Ark,
I was at the hospital one day seeing a friend in emergency. I say next to a girl out in the triage area of this place who had to be 16 or 17 and she was beat up.
I later learned when they were interviewing a witness who was hit by a bottle that this one sitting next to me was one of three girls who ganged up on a female Marine who was home on leave. From what I was told later on by this guy she and her friends were at some bar and had a few they weren't or should not have had. The Marine was sitting there talking to someone, the barkeep gave her a free one on the house for her tour in the middle east and these girls overheard the barkeep's praise the marine for being over there and the hard work she was doing for all of us. Well that was too much for these three girls, so they started to harass the marine, calling her all kinds of names and then all of a sudden one of them ran over with a bottle and tried to hit the marine in the head.
Well the girl sitting next to me was the lucky one, she got nailed in the eye, had a broken nose and knocked down hard but the other two were being treated for broken bones. When I saw the marine later that night as she was being discharged, I thanked her.
I was at the hospital one day seeing a friend in emergency. I say next to a girl out in the triage area of this place who had to be 16 or 17 and she was beat up.
I later learned when they were interviewing a witness who was hit by a bottle that this one sitting next to me was one of three girls who ganged up on a female Marine who was home on leave. From what I was told later on by this guy she and her friends were at some bar and had a few they weren't or should not have had. The Marine was sitting there talking to someone, the barkeep gave her a free one on the house for her tour in the middle east and these girls overheard the barkeep's praise the marine for being over there and the hard work she was doing for all of us. Well that was too much for these three girls, so they started to harass the marine, calling her all kinds of names and then all of a sudden one of them ran over with a bottle and tried to hit the marine in the head.
Well the girl sitting next to me was the lucky one, she got nailed in the eye, had a broken nose and knocked down hard but the other two were being treated for broken bones. When I saw the marine later that night as she was being discharged, I thanked her.
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
I dated this female Marine from Kansas. She had worked in a male prison up there before joining the Corps. She was tough, yet still very classy. She was one of those girlfriends that had your back in a fist fight, but you could also take her out somewhere. Kinda like my wife.
spudhead911
Seasoned Expediter
The United States first started sending “advisors” to Vietnam a few years after the North Vietnamese Army (NVA), and the Viet Cong (VC) chased the French out the country with their tails tucked between their legs. The Soviet Union and China were already supplying arms and military training personnel to North Vietnam.
By the time the U.S. was fully committed to defending South Vietnam the war was already lost. I served in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969. We had so many rules of engagement put on us that sometime even if we could see the enemy; we could not engage them, unless they fired upon us first. There were no fire zones, where we couldn’t even return fire if fired on. We took no ground. After we won a fire fight, we would leave the area, allowing the NVA and VC to return to the area we just fought for to continue their operations.
Many South Vietnamese soldiers were VC by night. Both the VC and civilian population wore the same clothes, making it almost impossible to tell one from the other, until fired upon in many cases. There were no clear battle lines; the whole country was a combat zone. We were not allowed to enter North Vietnam to fight the NVA on their own turf. If we called in an air strike on a rubber plantation, we had to pay the foreign company who owned the plantation for any damage we did to the rubber trees.
If the powers to be had let the troops fight the war the way it should have been fought, we would have been victorious in our efforts. At every turn we had our hands tied.
Much money was made by companies supplying the troops with equipment of all kinds, at the cost of over 58,000 American lives. The Vietnam War turned out to be a money making opportunity for these companies, and their lobbyists kept the war going as long as they could.
You are right; the war was fought for the wrong reasons. Instead of fighting to help the South Vietnamese people, who didn’t want our help in the first place, it was fought for the profits of Big Business.
Our government, and JFK, initiated the overthrow of the South Vietnamese government, to put the puppets the U.S.A. wanted in place.
We lost a war that we could have, and should have won, were it not for the leaders back in the States, who kept the troops hands tied, despite the pleas from the Commanding Generals in Vietnam to let the soldiers on the ground do their job.
Am I bitter? Yes. Would I serve again if called? Yes. This is my country, right or wrong I will stand and support it.
I am a Patriot, who loves these United States, and I am willing to give my life for my Country.
I do have one question that bothers me. Why, when I came home from spilling my blood for what I thought was a just cause, did people spit at me in uniform, and call me a baby killer. I wonder what they would have done if a five year old child ran toward them with a satchel charge tied to them, pulling on the detonator cord.
Also why are the troops serving now being called heroes, and we were called killers? Why are they given parades, and we were spit on? Should I even mention being called baby killer? I’m sure you all have read about the children in Iraq trying to kill our troops with explosives taped to their bodies. Why are they not called baby killers?
The American People for the most part treated us like dirt when we returned home from our tour of duty. I love my Country. I spit on all you nearsighted, draft card burning, flower children, and those who ran to Canada to evade the draft. YOU WERE AND ARE COWARDS. This is your Country, just because you disagreed with the policies of the time is no reason to run and hide and refuse to serve. If this had happened when the Colonies declared their independence, we would still be flying the Union Jack
By the time the U.S. was fully committed to defending South Vietnam the war was already lost. I served in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969. We had so many rules of engagement put on us that sometime even if we could see the enemy; we could not engage them, unless they fired upon us first. There were no fire zones, where we couldn’t even return fire if fired on. We took no ground. After we won a fire fight, we would leave the area, allowing the NVA and VC to return to the area we just fought for to continue their operations.
Many South Vietnamese soldiers were VC by night. Both the VC and civilian population wore the same clothes, making it almost impossible to tell one from the other, until fired upon in many cases. There were no clear battle lines; the whole country was a combat zone. We were not allowed to enter North Vietnam to fight the NVA on their own turf. If we called in an air strike on a rubber plantation, we had to pay the foreign company who owned the plantation for any damage we did to the rubber trees.
If the powers to be had let the troops fight the war the way it should have been fought, we would have been victorious in our efforts. At every turn we had our hands tied.
Much money was made by companies supplying the troops with equipment of all kinds, at the cost of over 58,000 American lives. The Vietnam War turned out to be a money making opportunity for these companies, and their lobbyists kept the war going as long as they could.
You are right; the war was fought for the wrong reasons. Instead of fighting to help the South Vietnamese people, who didn’t want our help in the first place, it was fought for the profits of Big Business.
Our government, and JFK, initiated the overthrow of the South Vietnamese government, to put the puppets the U.S.A. wanted in place.
We lost a war that we could have, and should have won, were it not for the leaders back in the States, who kept the troops hands tied, despite the pleas from the Commanding Generals in Vietnam to let the soldiers on the ground do their job.
Am I bitter? Yes. Would I serve again if called? Yes. This is my country, right or wrong I will stand and support it.
I am a Patriot, who loves these United States, and I am willing to give my life for my Country.
I do have one question that bothers me. Why, when I came home from spilling my blood for what I thought was a just cause, did people spit at me in uniform, and call me a baby killer. I wonder what they would have done if a five year old child ran toward them with a satchel charge tied to them, pulling on the detonator cord.
Also why are the troops serving now being called heroes, and we were called killers? Why are they given parades, and we were spit on? Should I even mention being called baby killer? I’m sure you all have read about the children in Iraq trying to kill our troops with explosives taped to their bodies. Why are they not called baby killers?
The American People for the most part treated us like dirt when we returned home from our tour of duty. I love my Country. I spit on all you nearsighted, draft card burning, flower children, and those who ran to Canada to evade the draft. YOU WERE AND ARE COWARDS. This is your Country, just because you disagreed with the policies of the time is no reason to run and hide and refuse to serve. If this had happened when the Colonies declared their independence, we would still be flying the Union Jack
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Spud... not being old enough to remember the Vietnam war, I can't say I understand what you went thru. However, I know from ppl who've lived that era that the ones who spit on you were in the minority. They're the same ones who, if there wasn't a war in Iraq, would find something else to protest... cause that's what they do. Professional whiners! If they got everything they've ever demanded, would still find something to protest.
I was in the first Sandbox. And the guilt I felt when we were treated like heroes, knowing you were not. I was proud and ashamed of my country at the same time. But many woke up and realized what we've done to our Vietnam vets.
We cannot control what is thrown at us. And in both wars, we fought, and fight, enemies in civilian clothes. I believe ppl understand that now. And that alone will help take the pressure off of our troops, knowing that we DO understand... at least the majority does.
Welcome back, Brother!!!
I was in the first Sandbox. And the guilt I felt when we were treated like heroes, knowing you were not. I was proud and ashamed of my country at the same time. But many woke up and realized what we've done to our Vietnam vets.
We cannot control what is thrown at us. And in both wars, we fought, and fight, enemies in civilian clothes. I believe ppl understand that now. And that alone will help take the pressure off of our troops, knowing that we DO understand... at least the majority does.
Welcome back, Brother!!!
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Spud... not being old enough to remember the Vietnam war, I can't say I understand what you went thru. However, I know from ppl who've lived that era that the ones who spit on you were in the minority. They're the same ones who, if there wasn't a war in Iraq, would find something else to protest... cause that's what they do. Professional whiners! If they got everything they've ever demanded, would still find something to protest.
I was in the first Sandbox. And the guilt I felt when we were treated like heroes, knowing you were not. I was proud and ashamed of my country at the same time. But many woke up and realized what we've done to our Vietnam vets. And I for one say "Welcome back, Brother!!!"
We cannot control what is thrown at us. And in both wars, we fought, and fight, enemies in civilian clothes. I believe ppl understand that now. And that alone will help take the pressure off of our troops, knowing that we DO understand... at least the majority does.
I was in the first Sandbox. And the guilt I felt when we were treated like heroes, knowing you were not. I was proud and ashamed of my country at the same time. But many woke up and realized what we've done to our Vietnam vets. And I for one say "Welcome back, Brother!!!"
We cannot control what is thrown at us. And in both wars, we fought, and fight, enemies in civilian clothes. I believe ppl understand that now. And that alone will help take the pressure off of our troops, knowing that we DO understand... at least the majority does.
spudhead911
Seasoned Expediter
The soldiers serving our country are true heroes. They have sacraficed everything to defend their country. The war in Iraq is very "unpupular" with most U.S. citizens, yet they do the job they were sent to do, enduring great hardship. The same goes for those in Afganistan, as well as those who served in both Gulf Wars. I SALUTE YOU. Stand proud, you are serving, and have served your country with honor and dignity. You and you alone know the value of human life, and are willing to lay yours down for a sometimes ungreatful country. It is a country that you love without question, no one can take that from you. To each and everyone of you, I say THANK YOU.
Thanks for your service Spudhead, I too served during that time. I did not got to Vietnam or in combat. I served in a different capacity. I too was spit on when in uniform. In my former life I was an in the intel business. I know you heard stories of about fighting for big business etc and fighting for the wrong reasons. Do not fret. You were lied to by the press etc. You did not spill blood for no reason. Vietnam was one of several "theaters of operation" in WW3. We were fighting the Soviets there as in many other places in the world. Korea, Angola etc. etc. etc. I had the good luck or what ever to work in a place where I could see the big picture. Most people in this country did not. Few who fought in WW3 know what really happened. You were all short-changed. Those who degrade our efforts over those 50 years should be ashamed. Stand proud, you fought against a great evil, one greater than Nazi Germany. To all who doubt what is going on now in the Middle East, WW4, be careful. This threat is as bad as any we have faced in this country. DO NOT fall for the news as printed. I am no longer in the busines for many reasons but we knew about this problem 30 years ago. We have buried our heads in the sand for too long and now we are in trouble. This war will not end tomorrow. Iraq etc are just "theaters of operation" in WW4 just as Vietnam was in WW3. To those who have served or are serving in those places, thank you. Thanks for protecting me. Do not be discourged. Please come home safe. Layoutshooter
By the way Spudhead, the first two "advisers" killed in Vietnam were from my unit. A now disbanded bunch called the Army Security Agency. Although not officially there out guys served in units like the 409th Radio Reaserch etc. Many were assinated in non-combat areas like Thailand. Killed in the streets at night by Soviet agents or thier puppets. That is what really happened. This is not oppinion, it is fact. Layoutshooter
spudhead911
Seasoned Expediter
It would take many reams of paper to tell the real story of Vietnam. The many covert ops that were foever going on, all the spooks running around the country. How abour Air America. I remember a lot of "civilians" wearing pressed kaki shirts. We assisted in the insertion of a lot of scary looking people. We would later have to go back and save their @sses in the bush, mostly at night. We used to go into thailand, cambodia, and Laos all the time. "It don't mean nothin'"
You most likely saved the a** of a good friend of mine. He was a WO3 and spent a great deal of time in Cambodia. Thanks if you did, and if not, thanks to the team that pulled him out. Layoutshooter