Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next year?

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

It desnt seem to be getting enforced. I was just in CA, and thre are jsut as many locally owned old NON DPF trucks as before. I'm sure they realise enforcement would be a total disaster for the economy as a whole. This last trip I counted more NON DPF trucks than DPF trucks running down the 10.


I'm not gonna spend the 15k to upgrade my truck, so if they start enforcement ill just not go there anymore. Even I have a house there.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

On Jan. 1 2014 trucks with model year engines 2005 and 2006 will no longer be allowed in California unless they have been upgraded with a Diesel Particulate Filter to meet the CARB requirements.

If you have a truck with this model year engine what are your plans?

The expense of an upgrade for our 2006 truck prompted us to look at ways the money could be better spent, both inside and outside trucking. Finding a more attractive option outside trucking, we made the decision to exit the trucking business. As things stand now, our truck will be sold later this year. The new CARB regs were not the deciding factor but they were a contributing factor in this decision.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

California can go pound sand, eat dirt, suck worms etc. I will go out of business before I scrap a perfectly good engine or spend a fortune to meet one sick states regs. I guess that makes it clear.
 

rollincoal

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

It desnt seem to be getting enforced. I was just in CA, and thre are jsut as many locally owned old NON DPF trucks as before. I'm sure they realise enforcement would be a total disaster for the economy as a whole. This last trip I counted more NON DPF trucks than DPF trucks running down the 10.


I'm not gonna spend the 15k to upgrade my truck, so if they start enforcement ill just not go there anymore. Even I have a house there.

Wondering who if anyone that isn't a CA based carrier can provide proof they've been cited or refused entry into CA. Seems like a whole bunch of scare tactics and propaganda but really can they enforce this on non-CA trucks? I've heard the same stories of the same old trucks, even CA based ones, all over the state still trucking business as usual. And the tension between CA DOT and CARB cops. Haven't been there in several years and really have no need to ever go there again anyways. Just think the whole ordeal is overblown hype.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

Regardless of enforcement I don't think our carrier (FedEx CC) or any reputable carrier will send trucks into California knowing they are in violation of that states law. Once the first accident happens the lawyers will be screaming that it never would have happened if that truck hadn't been in the state. And the driver will be at fault because he/she shouldn't have been there.
 

sectra1

Active Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

On Jan. 1 2014 trucks with model year engines 2005 and 2006 will no longer be allowed in California unless they have been upgraded with a Diesel Particulate Filter to meet the CARB requirements.

If you have a truck with this model year engine what are your plans?

I'm only seeing three options:
Pull California out of the road atlas and take them off your CAB Card
Buy a newer truck
Have a DPF installed

Anyone else have any thoughts?

I called Detroit Diesel regarding our 05 Mercedes (MBE 4000) engine and was told it was designed to meet the 2014 rule. Anyone else confirm this or have more accurate information? It's tough tracking down anyone with reliable information. Even called a Freightliner dealer in CA. They were clueless as well and told me to call Freightliner who in turn told me to call Detroit Diesel/Mercedes.

The closest I've gotten to a reliable answer is from CARB (California Air Resources Board). Gentleman there said the engine should have a label that indicates whether or not it meets criteria.

Basically the exhaust needs to have a "Particulate Matter Filter".

We do enough business in Cali to justify the retro but would obviously want to avoid it. Perhaps this is a good time to pick up a nicer truck!

Also seems to be quite a few trucks around these years in the EO classifieds. Certainly raises some questions.
 
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usafk9

Veteran Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

I called Detroit Diesel regarding our 05 Mercedes (MBE 4000) engine and was told it was designed to meet the 2014 rule. Anyone else confirm this or have more accurate information? It's tough tracking down anyone with reliable information. Even called a Freightliner dealer in CA. They were clueless as well and told me to call Freightliner who in turn told me to call Detroit Diesel/Mercedes.

The closest I've gotten to a reliable answer is from CARB (California Air Resources Board). Gentleman there said the engine should have a label that indicates whether or not it meets criteria.

Basically the exhaust needs to have a "Particulate Matter Filter".

We do enough business in Cali to justify the retro but would obviously want to avoid it. Perhaps this is a good time to pick up a nicer truck!

Also seems to be quite a few trucks around these years in the EO classifieds. Certainly raises some questions.


California is now pretty important to us, as well. We're in the same boat as you. You're either buying new, or your retrofitting before January 1 of next year.

A short while ago, Team Caffee linked a series of articles here, from Freightliner's Team Run Smart site, written by Joe Rajkovacz about the history and your requirements under CARB. it's about two or three pages back here on the General Forum. Search for CARB, and it will be there.
 
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sectra1

Active Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

I've heard $16K for a retrofit. Anyone else looked into this?
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

I've also heard the retro fit decreases performance and increases fuel consumption. These older engines were not designed to run with the increased back pressure of a DPF.
I would put the $16k towards the down payment on a new truck.
 

BobWolf

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

When I started in 2007 with a local company they ran pre 2007 engines in thier International 4300s
betwene 9. Turned in the 2004s and 2005s leasers for new 2007 DPF and EGR 4300s and averaged 6mpg. The newer trucks are also gutless when it comes to torque and h.p. The new engines with additional DPF, EGR and now SCA fluid and yet again fuel companies have reformulated the fuel and oil to be SCA systeme friendly. We are running over priced, over weight, and underpowered gassers.

Lets face it CARB and the EPA have destroyed the Diesel engine. Anybody want to get on board and help develop a gerbal powered truck?

Bob Wolf.
 

rollincoal

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

Regardless of enforcement I don't think our carrier (FedEx CC) or any reputable carrier will send trucks into California knowing they are in violation of that states law. Once the first accident happens the lawyers will be screaming that it never would have happened if that truck hadn't been in the state. And the driver will be at fault because he/she shouldn't have been there.

Maybe not. I would think the first battle in a court case like that would be whether or not CA has the authority to impose their own state regulations on trucks based out of state. I don't think they do. But you are right most of the big carriers are spineless and would never send older trucks there anyway. They'll just go with the flow and spend the money to upgrade and "comply". I've heard that shippers/receivers are being intimidated with fines for loading/unloading non-compliant trucks. Even that could be the grounds for some sort of legal battle. Where does CA get this authority to impose "federal" interstate commerce regs on out of state trucks?
 

BobWolf

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

Where dose any government get the authority?

They stomp on the fredoms of citizens.

Bob Wolf
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

From the Team Run Smart website:

How did CARB get their authority?

The answer stems from California’s unique topography and huge population densities that are packed into geographic regions surrounded by mountains. Add in millions of automobiles and their cumulative emissions from sitting on California’s eternally clogged freeways and poor air quality was the not-so-surprising result.

To address poor air quality at a time of exploding growth, California Governor Ronald Reagan signed the legislation creating CARB in 1967, and the state became the first to regulate automobile tailpipe emissions. California’s special status to independently regulate engine emissions is because they were the first to do it.

In 1970, President Richard Nixon created the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and signed the federal Clean Air Act (CAA). CARB was given “special status” under the CAA because it was regulating air quality prior to the federal government. The CAA also granted every state the option to choose between U.S., EPA, or adopting CARB regulations. Perhaps most important to truckers, CARB can regulate “in-use” engines. This is authority the U.S. EPA does not possess.

The CAA puts requirements on states to achieve certain levels of air quality. Failure to make targets could trigger certain federal sanctions against a state that would conceivably limit economic growth. In 2006, California’s then-Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger became a champion of “climate change” and signed AB 32 – the Global Warming Solutions Act of 2006, which has been used by CARB ever since to further regulate the trucking industry. Governor Schwarzenegger believed California could lead an economic “green revolution” and reduce carbon footprints to 1990 levels (which is a key requirement of AB 32).
 

BobWolf

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

The more emisions equipment and restrictions we put on vehicles the worse the milage, and performance, and they burn more fuel, and run at higher combustion temps and create more smog.
So in return we recirculate the exhaust and reduce the H.P. Now we need to develop higher HP engines and then we need higher octane fuel to run at higher compressions and combustion temps but that fuel dosent burn completely or they burn at higher temps and not clean enough. Now we need to design and install more emmisions and the riddle starts again.

Lets face it. The internal combustion engine has long outlived it usefulness and as long as the oil companies have say in the fuel we use we will never see a productive and affordable hybrid, full electric or non emision car or truck.

Bob Wolf.
 

BobWolf

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

I know we that are in The Peoples Republic of New York State are on borrowed time as NYS follows in lock step with Cali.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

Constitutionally CA cannot impose regulations on out of state trucks. Its known as reciprocity, its the same as tinted windows. CA can't enforce wndow tint laws an AZ cars visiting disneyland

Sent from my SPH-D700 using EO Forums mobile app
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Re: Those of you that have 05-06 engines. What are your plans for California next yea

Unfortuantley for me my truck is domociled in CA so they can enforce it on me.

Havind said that, CA will do it until I is challenged in FED court. Of course there is no guarantee the court will uphold the constitution, because rarely they do.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using EO Forums mobile app
 
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