The wave of Muslim immigration at Europe's borders is getting ugly.

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
LOL ...

You should have kept right on quoting ... but I get that it would have exposed your agenda (religious bigotry)

Here's what follows immediately after what you quoted above:

" ... The Roman Catholics or Papists are excluded by reason of such doctrines as these, that princes excommunicated may be deposed, and those that they call heretics may be destroyed without mercy; besides their recognizing the Pope in so absolute a manner, in subversion of government, by introducing, as far as possible into the states under whose protection they enjoy life, liberty, and property, that solecism in politics, imperium in imperio, leading directly to the worst anarchy and confusion, civil discord, war, and bloodshed."


In this matter, history has clearly shown Sam Adams - and Locke - were wrong.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
That's funny right there, that you think it happens so rarely on CNN. You really haven't watch much news on their network, because if you did, you would see that have a left wing agenda regularly advanced in their news. One example would be the numerous occasions of them advancing their anti police hate campaign.
Another example would be in no one else's opinion but that of CNN news anchor Chris Cuomo himself,who said:
Cuomo responded: “Secretary, my only advice for you is that you should go on a shame campaign with Congress to get them to act. New Day will help. CNN will help.” “We wish you good luck, secretary Duncan,” the co-host added. “You’re going to have a lot of challenges in front of you, but the biggest one is to get Washington to do anything.” “I’ll take you up on that, thank you very much,” Duncan replied. The co-host concluded: “You've got it, secretary.”

A shame campaign by the Education Secretary, helped by CNN.


- See more at: Chris Cuomo Promises CNN Will Help 'Shame' Congress Into Acting on Education
That's a lot of typing, Googling, copying and pasting just to say, "I don't know what 'agenda driven news' means."

You keep trying to give me examples of agenda driven news, because you are unable to give me a definition, but so far none of them are actual examples of agenda driven news. For one, CNN doesn't have an "anti police hate campaign," and saying they do doesn't mean they do. You clearly don't have the foggiest clue of the difference between "news bias" and "agenda driven news."

Your centerpiece example above, that of none other than ta-da! CNN news anchor Chris Cuomo himself, is not an example of agenda driven news. It's en example of a promise that Chris Cuomo doesn't have the authority to make, which CNN so far as not made good on. He's also not a CNN news anchor, he's the co-host of a morning talk show on CNN, called Good Day, that is about as much news as is Fox and Friends, or as is NBC's Today Show (where CNN head Jeff Zucker was the executive producer in the 90s and is desperately trying to recreate it on CNN). Agenda driven talk, even agenda driven news talk, abounds on the cable news channels, but that ain't agenda driven news, unless you don't know the difference between news and banter (somewhat understandable, since more and more news networks are confusing and intermixing the two, thanks to Fox and Friends which doesn't even pretend there's a difference).

Old school journalism, of which CNN is still a participant, has rules. Like, the "two-source" rule. The new school journalism has rules like the "no-source" rule, where stories can be written by innuendo, or the "I'm pretty sure" rule, or simply the "this is how I want it to be" rule. The public is finding it harder to differentiate between news and conjecture, between fact and opinion, between bias and agenda. Some don't know the difference.

There is most definitely a liberal media bias, but that's not the same as agenda driven news. Fox and MSNBC are the only two major televisions news outlets with an absolute political slant on the news, with genuine agenda driven news. The problem is, you can have a liberal (or a conservative) bias, and still deliver the news with impartiality. Conservatives don't believe that's possible. (Then again they don't believe Fox News is biased, they actually believe Fox News is fair and balanced and deliver the news in an unbiased, impartial manner.) The "liberal media bias" is a sacred article of faith to conservatives, who see the news as a direct reflection of journalist's well-documented liberal perspectives and the Democratic voting preferences. Consequently, any news story that is presented on the "liberal media" is therefore biased (even if the story is presented with zero bias, even if the same exact story is told in the same exact way on "their" preferred news network).

Both conservative and liberal media watchdog groups have long lists of complaints about biased stories. They're the elementary school tattle-tails of the Internet, running to tattle on anyone who will give them a pat on the back. What's missing amongst these laundry lists of naughty-naughty is the evidence of a broad pattern of coverage that consistently favors one side in pursuit of an agenda (the one glaring example is, of course, Fox News, who admits to a political slant on the news and to agenda driven news - the other example is MSNBC, but they're so bad at it that no one cares except the alphabet soup crowd that watches Rachael Madow, and they like their Fox News counterpart views are there to lap it up). Even a collection of items from the laundry list isn't evidence of a news slant or of agenda driven news. It's nothing more than a collection of examples of journalists suffering bouts of "irrational exuberance" while wearing their feelings on their sleeves. We see that in both liberal and conservative media.

The problem with partisans in general, but conservatives really, really especially is, the "hostile media effect." They see any and all criticisms of their own side as bias, while assuming criticisms of the other side, the liberals, is well-founded and not a bias at all, not even a little bit. Further, conservatives see a bias in any story that could-but-doesn't present their conservative point of view. "Moderate," "moderately liberal," moderately conservative," even "close but no cigar" are all just fancy names to conservatives for "liberal bias." Unless the story tells the proper and correct version of the conservative view, it's straight-up liberal bias, no ifs ands or buts. You're either with me or you're against me. Period.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
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You keep saying I don't know what agenda driven news is. I gave you examples, but you seen to dismiss them as just isolated incidents. They are permeated throughout CNN's newscasts and by the news personalities on these shows,with the exception of probably Jake Tapper's one hour show. It's not a coincidence either. Jeff Zucker and other management have specific narratives they want to advance such as gun control issues,global warming, an anti police narrative , and a whole host of current administrations initiatives like their position on Immigration to name one. That's what agenda driven news is. They favor the liberal viewpoint on an issue and they advance the narrative that favors that viewpoint by having their mostly liberal news personalities frame questions to a mostly liberal guest interview,or it's stacked 2 or 3 liberals to on conservative. They give more coverage to stories that are more favorable to liberals and their causes, They will give more coverage to conservatives issues usually when it's something they can use in a mostly negative way. And finally they won't cover a story as much that reflects negatively toward a liberal viewpoint. Their excuse will be that Fox News is already covering that so we don't have cover it or much at all.
They are really a lot like MSNBC,except they're just not as open about it as the Lean Forward Network.
 

Turtle

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LOL ...

You should have kept right on quoting ... but I get that it would have exposed your agenda (religious bigotry)
Selective Bias Logical Fallacy. It's his bread and butter. Don't take that away from him. It's all he's got.

Here's what follows immediately after what you quoted above:

" ... The Roman Catholics or Papists are excluded by reason of such doctrines as these, that princes excommunicated may be deposed, and those that they call heretics may be destroyed without mercy; besides their recognizing the Pope in so absolute a manner, in subversion of government, by introducing, as far as possible into the states under whose protection they enjoy life, liberty, and property, that solecism in politics, imperium in imperio, leading directly to the worst anarchy and confusion, civil discord, war, and bloodshed."


In this matter, history has clearly shown Sam Adams - and Locke - were wrong.
I'm not sure why he was even quoting Adam's writings on the Rights of Colonists, anyway, since it, oh, wait, never mind, I know, it's because it contains a snippet that he agrees with and helps make his point, and it's written by somebody important, so you'd better get in line, mister. So there. Context never has been his strong suit. Ignoring it, or creating a new one, that's another story.

In any event, even what he quoted is largely crap. "In regard to religion, mutual toleration in the different professions thereof is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practised, and, both by precept and example, inculcated on mankind. And it is now generally agreed among Christians that this spirit of toleration, in the fullest extent consistent with the being of civil society, is the chief characteristical mark of the Church."

I remember reading that in high school, and I laughed then. Tolerance of other religions is the chief characteristical mark of the Church. Oh, that Sammy Adams, what a crack up he was.

Granted, most religions teach it and preach it, even though they don't necessarily practice it much.

I don't think Locke was entirely wrong, though. Locke's position wasn't as simple as Adams' one line in his Natural Rights of Colonists as Men would seem to indicate. Locke was dead set against Catholics, but at the same time struggled with how to be tolerant of their religious worship and beliefs. Locke's primary goal was to "distinguish exactly the business of civil government from that of religion." He strongly felt that government is instituted to promote external interests, like those relating to life, liberty, and the general welfare, while the church exists to promote internal interests, like salvation. The two serve separate functions, therefore they must be considered to be separate institutions, and never the twain shall meet, so to speak.

Catholic Imperialism is, by definition and in practice, in direct conflict with most any non-Catholic government, and certainly not a government of the people. Catholic Imperialism was not compatible with the established and natural right of the Colonists as Men, nor would it be compatible with the Constitution ratified in 1787. To allow Catholic Imperialism to take hold would set aside the rights of men, as "all those who enter into it do thereby ipso facto deliver themselves up to the protection and service of another prince." Meaning, according to Locke, that either the Catholic Church would become the government, or the government's magistrate would be forced to abide by the settling of a "foreign jurisdiction" in his own country and see its followers 'listed, as it were, for soldiers against his own Government and for the Church. That can be equally applied to Catholic Imperialism, and Islamic Imperialism, actually.

Locke felt strongly that a country with a single religion was not only more likely to engage in regular bouts of civil unrest, but tended to be stagnant as a nation. He felt the more religions there are, the less civil unrest would occur, but only if those religions actively taught tolerance of other religions. By and large he's been correct on that. But he felt so strongly about it that any religion that did not teach tolerance wouldn't be allowed in here, as they would be incompatible with the personal liberties of men, of the government, and of a civil society. He felt, clearly, that any religion that would be subversive to the government, and thus to society and the nation's culture and morality, should not be allowed to take hold of such power.

Locke was going through all this at a time of political and intellectual conflict, and religion and beliefs were caught in the middle in trying to break free from both. On one hand he believed that atheists shouldn't be tolerated, either, and should be forced into one religion or another (despite his conflicting arguing that the only way a Church can gain genuine converts is through persuasion and not through violence), since "Promises, covenants, and oaths, which are the bonds of human society, can have no hold upon an atheist." But he later questions whether atheism was even an obstruction or hindrance to political obedience of a society, and later determined it was not.

So I do agree that any religion that has as its goal or as part of its doctrine that it should become itself the ruling power the governed, or if its doctrines are incompatible with the laws of the land and the culture in which it tries to establish power, then it should not be allowed to establish such a power.

That should not be construed to mean Catholics or Muslims shouldn't be allowed here. That's absurd. But if the Catholics start making noises about Imperialism, they get shut down. Muslims should not be feared, but they nevertheless should be watched closely, as some of them will want to take the more fundamentalist views of Islam and put them into practice. While most Muslims are tolerant and peace-loving, and are moderate Muslims the same way that most Christians are moderate Christians, the religion of Islam in and of itself is not a religion of peace and tolerance. It doesn't even teach tolerance except under certain circumstances and situations. There are many different levels of tolerance in Islam, almost none of which mean what most in the west think they do.

The terms "peace" and "tolerance" don't even mean the same things in Islam that they do here in the west. The Prophet Muhammad defined the state of peace and tolerance as a moment when the entire world submits to Allah and embraces Islam, and that's how Islam views it. In Islam, the only way to achieve true peace is through settlement, jihad, and the institution of sharia. That's a fact.

However, it's also a fact that the Old Testament is chock full of same kind of crap that most Christians don't follow, either. So don't be too quick to get your islamophobic panties in a wad.

Islam is a religion, but it's more than that. It's got a spiritual component, of course, but it's also got an inextricable political component. Meaning, the religion and the politics (and government) are one in the same. So when I say Muslims should be watched closely, I'm talking about the ones who aren't the moderates and will try and start religious creep in government. That won't happen unless the Muslim population gets large enough to demand and require it.

Islamic communities can institute sharia if they like, so long as it doesn't conflict with existing laws, and they don't expect non-Muslims to abide by it. It's not a problem. We have Hasidic Jews in New York that, in exchange for the community’s loyalty, politicians have given Brooklyn’s Hasidim wide latitude to police themselves. They have their own emergency medical personnel, police, and even a rabbinic court system, which often handles not only civil but criminal allegations. Brooklyn's Hasidic children’s learning differs greatly from what is taught in public schools, too. Boys in elementary and middle school study religious subjects from 8 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. followed by approximately 90 minutes of English and math. At 13, when boys formally enter yeshiva, most stop receiving any English instruction. English and math and science are considered "profane" to Hasidim, so it's not surprising that many come out of school with a limited grasp of English. I think it's ironic that Hasidic Jews think math is profane, though. But that's what happens when your higher learning is focused on religion, which doesn't even ask the questions of how things work, since they already have that figured out, instead of focusing on how things actually work. Same thing happened to the more fundamentalist Muslims (and Christians). It's why the old saying, "Religion makes you stupid" is so true in many cases.

But in America, the truth is that Muslims are fairly well assimilated. A Pew Research Center report (several of them, actually) found that Muslims in the U.S. came from at least 77 countries. “Mixing breeds tolerance,” the article stated, and John Locke would nod his head in agreement. The report also noted that,“Most American Muslims think that their faith is open to multiple interpretations," and not solely to the wishes of an iron-fisted crackpot fundamentalist imam.
 
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Turtle

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You keep saying I don't know what agenda driven news is.
That's because nothing you've posted to date, including this post, indicated that you know what agenda driven news is. You certainly know what a bias is, but you seem to think a bias is the same as agenda driven news. It's not.

I gave you examples, but you seen to dismiss them as just isolated incidents.
That's because one, I asked for your definition and you responded instead with examples. You should be able to define agenda driven news in one sentence. Two, the examples of agenda driven news you gave were not agenda driven news, which I explained quite clearly in response to them. One of your examples wasn't even from a newscast, and the other was an isolated incident for which CNN caught a lot of flack for from liberals and conservatives, and an isolate incident does not a broad pattern of coverage that consistently favors one side in pursuit of an agenda make.

They are permeated throughout CNN's newscasts and by the news personalities on these shows,with the exception of probably Jake Tapper's one hour show. It's not a coincidence either.
They don't permeate the newscasts at all. The opinion and talk shows, maybe, but not the newscasts. They newscasts have a bias, but the news they present is not agenda driven. Sorry. Obviously, you're caught up in the "hostile media effect," where any story on CNN is not just biased, but is advancing an agenda, even if the same friggin' story is presented on Fox News. If the story on CNN doesn't criticize liberals or a liberal issue, OMG they're advancing the agenda.

Jeff Zucker and other management have specific narratives they want to advance such as gun control issues,global warming, an anti police narrative , and a whole host of current administrations initiatives like their position on Immigration to name one.
I need the link to where you read Zucker or anyone else in management stated that they have specific narratives they want to advance, and specifically the ones you mentioned. CNN devoted an entire day once to gun control issues. The talk and opinion shows were full of the bias, but the actual news reports were impartial and unimpassioned. The day itself was a result of someone's bias, but the news itself was not agenda driven.

That's what agenda driven news is.
It is, if your accusations were true with respect to the news, but they're not.

They favor the liberal viewpoint on an issue and they advance the narrative that favors that viewpoint by having their mostly liberal news personalities frame questions to a mostly liberal guest interview,or it's stacked 2 or 3 liberals to on conservative.
Well, that's what Fox News does, only the opposite. And CNN does that with the talk and opinion segments but not with their news.

They give more coverage to stories that are more favorable to liberals and their causes,
That's called a bias.

They will give more coverage to conservatives issues usually when it's something they can use in a mostly negative way.
Where do you come up with this stuff? Conservative issues, like abortion, Planned Parenthood, same-sex marriage, Kim Davis? They cover conservative issues all the time, but they won't promote the conservative agenda along with them.

And finally they won't cover a story as much that reflects negatively toward a liberal viewpoint. Their excuse will be that Fox News is already covering that so we don't have cover it or much at all.
Of course they do, if it's news.

They are really a lot like MSNBC,except they're just not as open about it as the Lean Forward Network.
They aren't really anything like MSNBC. MSNBC is agenda driven news, CNN isn't. CNN is just biased. Your problem with CNN is they aren't conservative, therefore their bias isn't merely a bias, it's an agenda they actively promote in their newscasts. Calling them bias isn't good enough, because it doesn't make them nearly evil enough. I don't know why you watch them nearly as much as you surely do. It's got to be 8 or 10 hours a day to be able to come up with all the things you've come up with in this thread. Well, that, or you've been doing a lot of Googling and reading, which is probably why you offered up examples instead of an actual definition, since the laundry list of examples of bias is so easy to find, digest and then crap them out as evidence of advancing an agenda.
 
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muttly

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That's because nothing you've posted to date, including this post, indicated that you know what agenda driven news is. You certainly know what a bias is, but you seem to think a bias is the same as agenda driven news. It's not.

That's because one, I asked for your definition and you responded instead with examples. You should be able to define agenda driven news in one sentence. Two, the examples of agenda driven news you gave were not agenda driven news, which I explained quite clearly in response to them. One of your examples wasn't even from a newscast, and the other was an isolated incident for which CNN caught a lot of flack for from liberals and conservatives, and an isolate incident does not a broad pattern of coverage that consistently favors one side in pursuit of an agenda make.

They don't permeate the newscasts at all. The opinion and talk shows, maybe, but not the newscasts. They newscasts have a bias, but the news they present is not agenda driven. Sorry. Obviously, you're caught up in the "hostile media effect," where any story on CNN is not just biased, but is advancing an agenda, even if the same friggin' story is presented on Fox News. If the story on CNN doesn't criticize liberals or a liberal issue, OMG they're advancing the agenda.

I need the link to where you read Zucker or anyone else in management stated that they have specific narratives they want to advance, and specifically the ones you mentioned. CNN devoted an entire day once to gun control issues. The talk and opinion shows were full of the bias, but the actual news reports were impartial and unimpassioned. The day itself was a result of someone's bias, but the news itself was not agenda driven.

It is, if your accusations were true with respect to the news, but they're not.

Well, that's what Fox News does, only the opposite. And CNN does that with the talk and opinion segments but not with their news.

That's called a bias.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Conservative issues, like abortion, Planned Parenthood, same-sex marriage, Kim Davis? They cover conservative issues all the time, but they won't promote the conservative agenda along with them.

Of course they do, if it's news.

They aren't really anything like MSNBC. MSNBC is agenda driven news, CNN isn't. CNN is just biased. Your problem with CNN is they aren't conservative, therefore their bias isn't merely a bias, it's an agenda they actively promote in their newscasts. Calling them bias isn't good enough, because it doesn't make them nearly evil enough. I don't know why you watch them nearly as much as you surely do. It's got to be 8 or 10 hours a day to be able to come up with all the things you've come up with in this thread. Well, that, or you've been doing a lot of Googling and reading, which is probably why you offered up examples instead of an actual definition, since the laundry list of examples of bias is so easy to find, digest and then crap them out as evidence of advancing an agenda.
Their agenda is driven by their bias. It shows up in their news on what they cover and what they don't cover as news. The agenda starts with Zucker and he picks the news personalities, producers, news writers, and political directors such as David Chalian who helps shape political reporting to his liking.
In Chalian's case, he not only is someone who leans left with his political views, he views the opposition party (GOP) as a bunch of racists. To deny that CNN isn't agenda driven is being naive. It shows up in almost every aspect of their 'news' with the exception of their token real news guy Jake Tapper.
Article excerpt:
CNN has promoted "Crossfire" producer David Chalian to political director, the network's Washington bureau announced on Friday.

"As Political Director, David will manage our extraordinary team of political reporters and producers and will oversee all aspects of CNN's political coverage including day-to-day reporting, our Polling Unit, Decision Team, and political planning operation," SVP Sam Feist and VP Virginia Moseley announced in a memo to staff.



Read more: CNN names David Chalian political director

CNN Promotes David Chalian - Who Was Fired by Yahoo For Racist Comments - Breitbart
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Barack Hussein Obama is the closest thing to a Muslim president Americans will ever see. That results from his being of Muslim heritage and overtly sympathetic to Muslim issues. It's not a personal knock against him, it's simply fact. If Obama were born to a Hindu heritage we could expect his allegiances and sympathies to fall in that direction.

The United States is predominantly populated by people from a Christian heritage. Overwhelmingly so. The experiment with electing leaders from exotic backgrounds has not yielded positive results and most likely will not reoccur. Patting ourselves on the back as a "melting pot" and diluting our national identity through endless waves foreign immigrants in the name of diversity is all good and well up to a point where it isn't in our national interest to continue doing so. It is time for a moratorium on immigration. The United States needs a time-out to assimilate those recently arrived. The US needs to reflect on the meaning of nationhood.
 

Turtle

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Their agenda is driven by their bias.
I'm still waiting for the link to where you read Zucker or anyone else in management stated that they have specific narratives they want to advance, and specifically the ones you mentioned: gun control issues,global warming, an anti police narrative , and a whole host of current administrations initiatives like their position on Immigration. It shouldn't be all that hard to come up with the link where you read it, as you made a statement of fact which implies you know it to be a fact and not just your opinion. Because up to this point, it's clear that you don't know the difference between a news bias and "agenda driven news," which is an actual thing, not merely a characterization.

It shows up in their news on what they cover and what they don't cover as news. The agenda starts with Zucker and he picks the news personalities, producers, news writers, and political directors such as David Chalian who helps shape political reporting to his liking.
You've just described news bias, not agenda driven news.

In Chalian's case, he not only is someone who leans left with his political views, he views the opposition party (GOP) as a bunch of racists.
Are you saying he has a liberal bias? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

To deny that CNN isn't agenda driven is being naive.
That's rich coming from someone who doesn't know what agenda driven news actually is and thinks a news bias is the same thing. They have a liberal bias, a really big one, and the news is reflected in that bias, but that's not the same as agenda driven news. If it was the same, then you'd have to claim that every news organization on the planet is agenda driven, because every news organization has its own bias that gets reflected in the news.

It shows up in almost every aspect of their 'news' with the exception of their token real news guy Jake Tapper.
Sorry, no it doesn't. They will often favor one side or another, usually the left side, on political issues, but that's not even remotely the same as being agenda driven. They certainly don't exhibit a liberal bias all the time in every story, the way some conservatives believe.

Fox News is straight-up agenda driven. They flatly admit to it. They present the news with a conservative slant to promote a conservative agenda to primarily a conservative audience. Anything that promotes the conservative agenda and marginalizes those who don't share the same views is what they are all about. It's basically a propaganda machine with no interest whatsoever in presenting the news in an unbiased manner. MSNBC is exactly like that, only with a liberal slant (although word is they are going to make an attempt to evolve in a more unbiased direction, but I think that path is closed off for them). Another example of agenda driven news outlets are the gay publications like the Advocate and Out. They do the same thing Fox News does, only for the Gay Agenda instead of the conservative agenda. There's even a gay radio station on SiriusXM. I'm not kidding. It's called OutQ or something like that. They have gay talk, gay news, and they play gay music (which I didn't even know had its own category like that, but apparently it does). But while CNN is biased, and that bias is reflected in their news (both in the stories they choose to report and in their reporting), they absolutely are not agenda driven in their news. Not even close. You'll just have to live with the slightly less demonic news bias.
 
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Pilgrim

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Fox News is straight-up agenda driven. They flatly admit to it.
They do? When and where?
They present the news with a conservative slant to promote a conservative agenda to primarily a conservative audience.
That sounds like bias, per your description. Remember, let's not confuse the opinion and editorial shows with the news.
... Fox and MSNBC are the only two major televisions news outlets with an absolute political slant on the news...
Maybe you're like me and don't watch much, if any major network news. However, I am exposed to ABC occasionally because it's what my wife watches and I get doses of Diane Sawyer, George Stephanopolis, et al from time to time and sometime I'm amazed at the political slant (spin) they put on their so-called news - not opinion mind you - but reports that are supposed to be objective news reporting. Also, who can forget the "investigative reporting" of Tom Brokaw on Dateline that falsely represented the exploding gas tanks on GM pickups, or his phony fish kill report on NBC Nightly News. Of course the list of examples is much longer, but the above statement about Fox and MSNBC is incorrect.

Nbc Admits Report On Fish Used Inaccurate Footage
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I say we should start looking for political politicians that have true values for Christ
And get rid of those who don't
So ... in your mind would that exclude anyone not Christian from holding political office ?
 

Turtle

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They do? When and where?
There are many examples, many of which I'm sure you are aware. There's Mike Wallace candidly stating that Fox News isn't balanced because they present the conservative side. There are the leaked memos from Fox News detailing how to report certain issues, including acceptable and unacceptable phrasing, particularly those from Executive Editor and Executive VP of Fox News, John Moody, LA Bureau Chief Ken LaCoste, but there are others. There's John Moody's comments about Roger Ailes giving Moody the latitude to forego many of the "duty" stories (the stories of the day that people need to hear to protect and ensure their freedoms) in favor of stories he, Ailes and others want told. There are Murdoch and Ailes' comments when Ailes was hired for the job, Murdoch's comments in several interviews where he admits to slanting and even at times manipulating the news "for the greater good,"

And of course there's Roger Ailes, who personifies and defines what Fox News is. He's the former Republican Party media strategist with a well known history in the Nixon and Reagan White House, who, along with H.R. Haldeman cooked up the idea in the Nixon White House for an All-GOP Television News Network that laid the groundwork for what is now Fox News. It was initially hatched as network to be run out of the White House, with Ailes in charge, to "present the news in accordance with the viewpoints of the GOP" and conservatives, to "advance the agenda and goals of the GOP and the White House." It's all detailed in the 318-page set of documents located in the Richard Nixon Presidential Library that describes Ailes' work for both the Nixon and George H.W. Bush administrations. The plan, and the title of the key memo that started it all, is "A Plan For Putting the GOP on TV News." So, the intellectual forerunner and architect for Fox News was a nakedly partisan 1970 plot by Ailes, Haldeman and other Nixon aides to "circumvent and render impotent the prejudices of network news" and deliver "pro-administration" (pro-conservative) stories to the heartland television viewers. And that's exactly what Fox News is.

That sounds like bias, per your description.
That's because it is. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Remember, let's not confuse the opinion and editorial shows with the news.
No need to be insulting.

Maybe you're like me and don't watch much, if any major network news. However, I am exposed to ABC occasionally because it's what my wife watches and I get doses of Diane Sawyer, George Stephanopolis, et al from time to time and sometime I'm amazed at the political slant (spin) they put on their so-called news - not opinion mind you - but reports that are supposed to be objective news reporting.
I know, it's ridiculous. In really don't watch much anymore, just bit and pieces here and there. My patience is too thin to watch very much of it. Some of the spin is so blatant that even a caveman can see it. I can deal with that, because I just recognize it for what it is and ignore it, knowing the actual truth is something else. But what chaps my butt is when they do a straight news story that doesn't need any comment whatsoever, either to set up the story, or somewhere in the middle, or usually at the end, the anchor or the reporter can't help themselves and must inject a comment of opinion, either to let us know what they think about it, or to let us know what we're supposed to think about it.

Of course the list of examples is much longer, but the above statement about Fox and MSNBC is incorrect.
I admit that I may have missed a major television news outlets who have an absolute political slant on the news, but I don't think so. ABC, NBC and CBS certainly have a liberal bias, and we all know of the examples of where it's happened in a given story, but those are exceptions to the rule. That's why you can list them and point to them and see! see! see!. An absolute political slant is agenda driven, not a simple bias, or "journalists" wearing their emotions on their sleeves.

There's a journalism textbook called "Issues in Media, Selections from QC Research," (third edition, January 2015) that perfectly illustrates and details what agenda driven news is, how is differs from simple bias, and where it comes from. This is not the work of some partisan hack group, it's from CQ Researcher, of Sage Press, which began as the Congressional Quarterly in 1945. The founder, Nelson Poynter, later founded the Modern Media Institute, which is now the Poynter Institute, a non-profit journalism school, and one of only a handful of journalism schools in the world that strictly adheres to and teaches the Code of Journalism Ethics.

In it, they detail agenda driven news, with reporters and everything, not only by liberals at places like Huffington Post and Talking Points Memo, or conservative outlets like Brietbart and The Daily Caller, but also at the Heritage Foundation where they have begun to hire "news reporters" to get their message out to a wider audience. They also touch on the blatantly agenda driven news of Fox News, as well as MSNBC, but noted that MSNBC is allegedly taking steps to curtain it. Non-profit organizations like ProPublica produce non-partisan, non-ideological driven investigative journalism, often in conjunction with major media outlets. But it's these ideological-driven non-profits and for-profits that are beginning to proliferate, and the overwhelming majority of them are conservative. The Franklin Center for Government and Public Integrity is, despite the name and their claim, a highly partisan conservative investigative non-profit based in Alexandria, VA, that is funded by the State Policy Network, which is a group of think tanks and other conservative organizations, as well as global corporations who benefit from the agenda, not to mention the Koch Brothers is one of the primary funders of the network.

The Columbia Journalism Review referred to the Franklin Center as "the best financed, the most connected, and the most ambitious conservative news organization you've never heard of." They hire "journalists" to focus primarily on government waste and on public unions, always from a pro-free market and anti-labor viewpoint, and are then published mostly on it's website, Watchdog.org, where hungry little conservatives lap it up like it's unbiased, actual news. Conservative Web sites pick it up and reprint it, as do many local radio and television stations strapped for content and no money to hire reporters (they've lost 30-40 percent of the news staff since 2000), who run the stories sometimes, usually without sourcing it, leaving the reader to not have a clue of the Franklin Center's agenda or point of view. Most of what they do it state and local governments and issues, but they also have a strong presence inside the Beltway.

That's what news is becoming and in many cases already has become. The problem is, it ain't news. The reporting of the news has always been biased, usually liberal (because most journalists wide-eyed optimistic idiots when they enter journalism and that thinking follows along), but mostly there is the attempt to balance the bias with the Ethics of Journalism. Today, most journalists have very few ethics, because the story they want to tell is more important.

CNN has a bias, sometimes a big and blatant one, but it's not an absolute slant (where they will only or primarily present stories favorable to a liberal agenda and unfavorable to conservatives). Fox News has an absolute slant, it's the most blatant and glaring example of agenda driven television news there is, and people who deny that are either lying or they aren't living in reality.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
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I'm still waiting for the link to where you read Zucker or anyone else in management stated that they have specific narratives they want to advance, and specifically the ones you mentioned: gun control issues,global warming, an anti police narrative , and a whole host of current administrations initiatives like their position on Immigration. It shouldn't be all that hard to come up with the link where you read it, as you made a statement of fact which implies you know it to be a fact and not just your opinion. Because up to this point, it's clear that you don't know the difference between a news bias and "agenda driven news," which is an actual thing, not merely a characterization.

You've just described news bias, not agenda driven news.

Are you saying he has a liberal bias? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

That's rich coming from someone who doesn't know what agenda driven news actually is and thinks a news bias is the same thing. They have a liberal bias, a really big one, and the news is reflected in that bias, but that's not the same as agenda driven news. If it was the same, then you'd have to claim that every news organization on the planet is agenda driven, because every news organization has its own bias that gets reflected in the news.
That's rich coming from someone that admits they don't watch much of CNN but thinks they know anyhow that they aren't agenda driven. Just because they used to have a catchy, 'trusty' slogan regarding their news, doesn't mean it's true.

CNN Boss Zucker: 'Tremendous' Lack of Interest in Our Climate Change Stories - Breitbart

Charleston: CNN's Sick Pattern of Using the Dead as Political Weapons Against the Right - Breitbart

CNN Exhausts Anti-Cop Hate Campaign; Falls Back to Third Place - Breitbart

CNN Press Release Openly Advocates for Background Check Legislation - Breitbart
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Speaking of Faux News ...

"Fox News Busted By UK Regulator For Segment On Muslim 'No-Go-Zones'

Two Fox News interviews about about Muslim "no-go-zones" that aired last January violated U.K. broadcast laws, the country's communications regulator ruled Monday.


Fox News was found in breach of British broadcast code that says, "Factual programmes or items or portrayals of factual matters must not materially mislead the audience."


Additionally the agency -- the Office of Communications or "Ofcom," for short -- said the apologies Fox aired after the fact did not do enough to mitigate "materially misleading statements and the potential harm and offence caused to viewers." ..."


Full article:

Fox News Busted By UK Regulator For Segment On Muslim 'No-Go-Zones'
 

Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
That's rich coming from someone that admits they don't watch much of CNN but thinks they know anyhow that they aren't agenda driven.
Not it isn't. It doesn't even take 5 minutes of a newscast to know whether they are agenda driven. It's really, really easy to spot, if you know what it is.

Just because they used to have a catchy, 'trusty' slogan regarding their news, doesn't mean it's true.
I don't recall ever saying that CNN should be a trusted news source, and I know for a stone cold fact that I've not said it in this thread. But since we're on rich topics, it's rich you'd say that about CNN after having defended the fact that Fox News is "Fair and Balanced" because theysayso.

Yes, I know, you'd be mute and opinion-free without Breitbart and Hotair and a few other "here's what you need to think" Web sites. I also see where you got your opinion about the anti-police campaign, and even that was just someone else's opinion, tooooo. Have you ever had an original thought? I do wonder.

I'll say it again, because Breitbart epitomizes it (and so do you for raising your beak like a baby bird when moma bird comes with food)... The problem with partisans in general, but conservatives really, really especially is, the "hostile media effect." They see any and all criticisms of their own side as bias, while assuming criticisms of the other side, the liberals, is well-founded and not a bias at all, not even a little bit. Further, conservatives see a bias in any story that could-but-doesn't present their conservative point of view."
 
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muttly

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Easy to spot, yet you still can't differentiate. It's not any and all criticisms of conservatism. It's the steady, non stop drum beat bashing of conservatives by an agenda driven news network named CNN. You're not able to refute the points Britbart makes.the only counter to them from you is Brietbart bad, Hot Air bad. At least with Breitbart, they work as a watch dog site and shine the light on agenda driven news networks like CNN who masquerade as 'objective' news providers.
I would stick with the issue of CNN's clear agenda driven news instead of changing the debate about Fox News. It's only your attempt as a diversion. My initial comment about them still stands, and is still true.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The problem with partisans in general, but conservatives really, really especially is, the "hostile media effect." They see any and all criticisms of their own side as bias, while assuming criticisms of the other side, the liberals, is well-founded and not a bias at all, not even a little bit. Further, conservatives see a bias in any story that could-but-doesn't present their conservative point of view."
I've observed a somewhat similar phenomena (on another site to be sure) where self-identified "conservatives" - who aren't really aware of the lay of the land and the personalities inhabiting it - show up out of the blue, express an opinion ... which someone (who sometimes is either a moderate or a conservative) then disagrees with ... and then they immediately start calling their opponent a liberal or leftist ...

It's mostly reactive - and is done without any real thought or rationality ... but it sure is funny ... especially when they go after someone who is actually quite conservative ...

Might also be instructive on the dangers of drinking too deeply from the partisan/ideological cup ...
 
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