As long as we continue to reward the irresponsible behavior of elected officials on every level from City Council to the Feds with a generous paycheck & benefits, how can we expect better from ordinary people?
The Trump Card...
- Thread starter muttly
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As long as we continue to reward the irresponsible behavior of elected officials on every level from City Council to the Feds with a generous paycheck & benefits, how can we expect better from ordinary people?
Xiggi, you changed the premise completely: from paying for insurance [that includes contraceptives] to paying for a specific hospital that you prefer.
I questioned whether you might feel differently if you were not yet ready to start a family, but your reply was about something else entirely. You worked hard and did the responsible thing, but that wasn't the question - it was whether you would have thought only women should pay for contraceptive coverage when you were younger, and your wife was using it. [Assuming she was, and on your insurance plan] You didn't answer that one.
Contraceptives used by only women benefit a lot of men, too, is my point.
Trying to take two wrongs and then trying to make them right doesn't wash. Just saying. The folks who aren't responsible for their actions, likely don't have a clue who is in the government or have any idea what they are doing.
But no one has proven that the people whose benefits are cut or eliminated are irresponsible - they just keep saying it.
The "non productive parasites" to whom I clearly referred are those in a select group of able-bodied citizens who not only refuse to support themselves and their offspring, but also feel entitled to live off govt handouts that come from working taxpayers. I shouldn't have to restate this concept, but it's apparently necessary since you obviously missed the point. BTW, my religious affiliation (or lack thereof) is totally irrelevant but your bigotry is duly noted.
The amusing thing about liberals is their smug arrogance based on false assumptions or complete lack of factual information about subject matter. Most of America's "poor" people have their own home complete with air conditioning, cable TV, DVR, cell phones, washer & dryer, and at least one automobile. Their govt benefits in many states are greater than what they would make working a minimum wage job.
Air Conditioning, Cable TV, and an Xbox: What is Poverty in the United States Today?
A month's supply of birth control pills costs on average about $10 per month from Wal Mart or other discount retail stores and 90-day supplies are available for as little as $12. Also, many different types are available at county health departments.
10 Ways to Save Money on Birth Control
Now that right there is "pure ignorance talking"
The "non productive parasites" to whom I clearly referred are those in a select group of able-bodied citizens who not only refuse to support themselves and their offspring, but also feel entitled to live off govt handouts that come from working taxpayers. I shouldn't have to restate this concept, but it's apparently necessary since you obviously missed the point. BTW, my religious affiliation (or lack thereof) is totally irrelevant but your bigotry is duly noted.
As I told Dave KC: there is zero proof that any significant number of "able bodied citizens" refuse to support themselves and/or their offspring - that is an assumption based on ideology, not fact.
The amusing thing about liberals is their smug arrogance based on false assumptions or complete lack of factual information about subject matter. Most of America's "poor" people have their own home complete with air conditioning, cable TV, DVR, cell phones, washer & dryer, and at least one automobile. Their govt benefits in many states are greater than what they would make working a minimum wage job.
'Poverty' is relative, which makes your argument ridiculous. By the standards of some, I am poor, By the standards of others, I'm pretty well off. The standards we use to judge poverty are those that apply to the circumstances of here & now.
The 'govt benefits are greater' myth has been debunked many times already. Also too, even if it were true, it says more about the successful repression of wages than anything else.
Air Conditioning, Cable TV, and an Xbox: What is Poverty in the United States Today?
A month's supply of birth control pills costs on average about $10 per month from Wal Mart or other discount retail stores and 90-day supplies are available for as little as $12. Also, many different types are available at county health departments.
10 Ways to Save Money on Birth Control
Now that right there is "pure ignorance talking"
Actually, that's knowledge talking: the birth control pills available for $10-12 per month are exactly the ones that are least effective.
Now your telling me I should be angry because I had to work extra hard for something we wanted. You just keep digging that hole your standing in deeper. Hell no, we or no one else should feel angry, we were and should feel proud that we were able to achieve something we sought after. Why in the world should two people with simple high school educations be handed higher paying jobs with out earning them?
You want to know who is the iresponsible one here, it's you because your an enabler for the exact type of people who should be doing more for themselves! It's you and people who share your mindset that encourage people who do not really need help to go ahead and jump on the gravy train. It's only right in your mind because, hey those rich people aren't paying you enough. You Cheri are one of the most iresponsible people I know!
JohnWC
Veteran Expediter
Yep the group that says we are owed these things and the group that says I'm not paying for them
The "non productive parasites" to whom I clearly referred are those in a select group of able-bodied citizens who not only refuse to support themselves and their offspring, but also feel entitled to live off govt handouts that come from working taxpayers. I shouldn't have to restate this concept, but it's apparently necessary since you obviously missed the point. BTW, my religious affiliation (or lack thereof) is totally irrelevant but your bigotry is duly noted.
The amusing thing about liberals is their smug arrogance based on false assumptions or complete lack of factual information about subject matter. Most of America's "poor" people have their own home complete with air conditioning, cable TV, DVR, cell phones, washer & dryer, and at least one automobile. Their govt benefits in many states are greater than what they would make working a minimum wage job.
Air Conditioning, Cable TV, and an Xbox: What is Poverty in the United States Today?
A month's supply of birth control pills costs on average about $10 per month from Wal Mart or other discount retail stores and 90-day supplies are available for as little as $12. Also, many different types are available at county health departments.
10 Ways to Save Money on Birth Control
Now that right there is "pure ignorance talking"
It is amazing what some like to convince you as to who and what is poor. Your link is a good one because they pull data right from the census reports. People in the US generally have no idea what "poor" really is.
Why should two people with 'simple high school educations' be handed higher paying jobs without earning them? Depending on how you define 'earning them', they shouldn't. That said, neither should they have to work a third job to provide basic necessities, because of a longstanding and progressive culture that devalues the people who do the work, while rewarding those who continually find new ways to devalue them even further. [The list includes offshoring jobs, part time, temp workers, and oh, yes: independent contractors, among many, many other ways to maximize profit while minimizing shared prosperity.]
There is no good reason for minimum wage to have remained unchanged as long as it has, or for actual middle class wages to have declined over the past several decades, [productivity has risen amazingly, but who gets the profit?] while the REAL parasites in our economy [like hedge fund traders] are richly rewarded for adding exactly nothing of value. Or for people who have worked and saved for decades to see their IRA /401k go up in smoke, while the people responsible get million dollar bonuses.
I'm all for people "doing more for themselves", but when a college education is beyond the reach of the working class [and a degree doesn't guarantee anything but decades of debt], there is something seriously wrong with our system. And who, exactly, am I encouraging to "jump on the gravy train"? The only 'gravy train' I know of is politics, lol, or maybe Wall Street, and people like that are not the people I know. The people I know earn their living, just as I do.
BTW: what 'gravy train' are YOU talking about? The whole $23 per week one can get on food stamps? The years long waiting list one can get on for subsidized housing, when rent costs 50 - 75% of monthly income?
Poor is a relative term. The person flipping burgers thinks I'm pretty well off, while the people at Goldman Sachs think I'm really poor.
They're both right, lol.
PS to Xiggi: the person you called irresponsible is one who has been working full time since age 16, and has never collected government benefits beyond a couple 3 week stretches of unemployment during annual layoffs. When the factory closed it's doors, I found a job to cover the year I had to wait to get into nursing school, and I worked while going to school, too. Not even as a single parent [collecting $50/month child support] did I ever depend on anyone but myself to support myself.
I'm proud of what I have done, and if you mistake my beliefs for 'enabling the undeserving' to be lazy, well, that's your mistake, and I can't help it.
I'm proud of what I have done, and if you mistake my beliefs for 'enabling the undeserving' to be lazy, well, that's your mistake, and I can't help it.
Poor is a relative term. The person flipping burgers thinks I'm pretty well off, while the people at Goldman Sachs think I'm really poor.
They're both right, lol.
Not so much in this case. The census reports debunk the myths that a large portion of the poor are really suffering. That really is not the case for the majority who receive entitlements. By comparison to the rest of the population and including foreign countries, our version of what poor really is by comparison, much different.
There are people who are really homeless and destitute. Those are the ones we need to help. By and large, this is a much smaller number than what liberals and some in the media would have you think.
The census reports don't offer anything but numbers - they can't tell us a single thing about the people behind the numbers: their history or their "suffering". Which is why the myths continue, because no one bothers to look at the people, they just make assumptions. As in the assumption that tightening the rules for food stamps to require getting a job results in a drop in applications, ergo: the people who stopped applying must have got jobs. Nobody admits they have no idea what those people are doing now, [dumpster diving?] they just claim the numbers prove them right.
A lot like the DOT/FMCSA announce the numbers of 'violations' as if it proves how reckless truck drivers are, and how much their [inspectors] budgets are critical to our safety, without ever mentioning how trivial many of those violations are. [In fact, my last Level 1 was perfect, except for one thing: a stick on reflector fell off. It was clearly recent - the spot was still clean & sticky, [and it was the ONLY 'defect' found!], but he wrote it up anyway, because: statistics are ammunition.]
The statistics in this case are people, and a great many are elderly, and children. Justifying that is a national disgrace.
Oh but it actually does. Once you review the assets and benefits they have it tells quite a lot. If someone on welfare has all the modern conveniences, healthcare, several cars, several flat screens and gaming devices and the list goes on, how much are they really suffering? As mentioned, there are homeless and people who are destitute. But by and large, that is a very small number verses what is classified as poor.
What makes you think it's gone? Do you suppose the person paying for food with food stamps doesn't see people scrutinizing their choices, judging what they shouldn't be able to have?
Do you think Mom is proud to tell her 5 year old that he can't have a birthday party, or even go to a friend's? [Because no money for a gift]
Shame about keeping people who work for a living from earning enough to provide it is what is gone, and we're all [except for the fortunate few] poorer for it.
Grocery and convenience stores actively clamouring for WIC business. As soon as that happened, the shame was gone.
Oh, I know they see it. Even when it's imagined. I was once screamed at, literally screamed at, by a woman because I had the audacity to eyeball the stuff she placed on the conveyor at checkout, despite the fact that all I did was look at it, didn't say anything, and didn't know or care how she was paying for it. She informed me that I didn't even have the right to look at her stuff after she laid it all out on display right before me, and added that she had "earned this!" (waving her food stamp card in my face) and that she was entitled to it. I was completely taken aback by the sudden outburst, and the only response I could come up with was to look at her and calmly state, "You're insane, leave me alone," to which the girl at the checkout register next to the one we were at busted out laughing and nodded affirmatively towards me. So while shame may have prompted her indignation, the shame has largely been supplanted by the indignation.
Not really sure what that has to do with being ashamed about on the dole.
The real shame is when people take a job that pays half what they need to support themselves and think they should nevertheless be paid enough to support themselves even though the job doesn't pay that much.
The move to a card over stamps was done in part to help remove shame.
98% of people on here have no problem with people who really need help getting it. The problem is today everyone from the college student to those who have a few struggles can get a card.
Here is my personal first hand knowledge of an ebt card user and it is much more common than I think you wish to admit. Mid twenties couple, one child, mom worked dad went to college and worked part time. They were on food assistance , did they have cable, yeap, cell phones, yes, two cars, again yes. Family that helped uh yes again, grandma also babysat for free. Birthday parties and holidays with lots of gifts, check and trust me when I say their clothes weren't from goodwill.
Want some section 8 stories? I have first hand accounts of a few of them too.