The Trump Card...

coalminer

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Yeah, Trump is in real trouble with the Fulton County District Attorney. She's the first black female to hold that office, and is therefore infallible with only pure motives.

On a related note, when someone asks you to "find" something it is generally taken to mean to locate something that already exists. Find the dog, find the car keys.

If they ask you to "manufacture" something, it is taken to mean to create something that doesn't exist.

For example, if Tesla couldn't sell any cars because they ran out, would they simply go and find more cars, or would they manufacture more cars?

Trump asked Georgia election officials to find more votes. If one is to believe that what Trump really meant by "find" is "manufacture," then language has no meaning.
The real question is if he believed that there were many fraudulent votes for Biden, wouldnt he have asked them to verify the legality of votes?

For me that makes me think he knew he lost, he just employed a tactic that is used in the boardroom, if you dont like how the numbers add up, change the formula. Which is why there are other cases against his businesses....
 
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ATeam

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Yeah, Trump is in real trouble with the Fulton County District Attorney. She's the first black female to hold that office, and is therefore infallible with only pure motives.
I never said or assumed that. No one is infallible. Motives of anyone are difficult to determine and for the most part motives are irrelevant. Actions can be seen. Actions matter.

In a mass shooting, it does not matter if the shooter was trying to save lives by shooting up an abortion clinic and killing those who perform abortions, and it does not matter if the shooter was shooting up a parade for reasons unknown. The act of shooting is what matters and that's what's prosecuted. If motives are later determined, they can add to the story, but again, it's actions that matter more.
Trump asked Georgia election officials to find more votes. If one is to believe that what Trump really meant by "find" is "manufacture," then language has no meaning.
That assumes that Trump always uses plain language. That's an assumption I would question.
 

Turtle

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I never said or assumed that. No one is infallible. Motives of anyone are difficult to determine and for the most part motives are irrelevant. Actions can be seen. Actions matter.
"This is a properly convened grand jury conducting a criminal probe."

The use of "properly" assumes pure motives.

And as far as what the grand jury knows, who are handpicked by the prosecutors, they know what the prosecutors have told them

.
That assumes that Trump always uses plain language. That's an assumption I would question
Trump has a well-documented history F using plain language, much to the consternation of his critics. Be that as it may, to go beyond the language he uses still requires mind reading.
 
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ATeam

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"This is a properly convened grand jury conducting a criminal probe."

The use of "properly" assumes pure motives.
You assume a lot about what is assumed.
And as far as what the grand jury knows, who are handpicked by the prosecutors, they know what the prosecutors have told them
And they will know what the witnesses tell them.

I don't know how the jurors are picked. Hand-picked by prosecutors? I'd want to know more before accepting that. I thought they were selected from a jury pool. Maybe I'm wrong. As I said, I know little about the grand jury selection process. But it matters not for the point I made. The jurors are not politicians like those sitting on the Jan 6 committee. When they issue a subpoena, they'd expect compliance, would they not? I know I would if I was on a grand jury.
.

Trump has a well-documented history F using plain language, much to the consternation of his critics. Be that as it may, to go beyond the language he uses still requires mind reading.
A deal of evidence has been unearthed by the Jan 6 committee that speaks to Trump's intent. Determining a person's intent is often part of what juries are asked to do.

For example, was it murder or manslaughter? That can depend on intent. How do we know what it was? We ask a jury to consider the evidence and decide.
 

danthewolf00

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Yeah, Trump is in real trouble with the Fulton County District Attorney. She's the first black female to hold that office, and is therefore infallible with only pure motives.

On a related note, when someone asks you to "find" something it is generally taken to mean to locate something that already exists. Find the dog, find the car keys.

If they ask you to "manufacture" something, it is taken to mean to create something that doesn't exist.

For example, if Tesla couldn't sell any cars because they ran out, would they simply go and find more cars, or would they manufacture more cars?

Trump asked Georgia election officials to find more votes. If one is to believe that what Trump really meant by "find" is "manufacture," then language has no meaning.
Georgia the state that lost a few flash drives with votes on them.....yea
 
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danthewolf00

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The real question is if he believed that there were many fraudulent votes for Biden, wouldnt he have asked them to verify the legality of votes?

For me that makes me think he knew he lost, he just employed a tactic that is used in the boardroom, if you dont like how the numbers add up, change the formula. Which is why there are other cases against his businesses....
Cyber monkeys found quite a few fraudulent votes in Arizona.....let's do a forensic in Georgia.
 
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Turtle

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And they will know what the witnesses tell them.
You do realize that grand juries are 100% one-sided for tke prosecution, right? The prosecutors only present stuff to the jurors that will get the jury to issue indictments and subpoenas..
I don't know how the jurors are picked. Hand-picked by prosecutors? I'd want to know more before accepting that. I thought they were selected from a jury pool.
The prosecutors pick the jurors from a jury pool, but as with a regular trial jury, the prosecutor can cull the potential jurors that don't like.
When they issue a subpoena, they'd expect compliance, would they not?
You betcha they would. Power is a drug.
A deal of evidence has been unearthed by the Jan 6 committee that speaks to Trump's intent. Determining a person's intent is often part of what juries are asked to do.
From what I've seen, the evidence has been either hearsay or mind reading. The only thing I'm surprised they haven't done yet is have professional mind readers testify.
 
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Pilgrim

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The Jan 6th soap opera is looking more like it's been written, produced and sponsored by the same people who brought us the epic Mueller investigation. Unless the story takes a sudden change of direction, it looks like the ending will be the same.
 

Turtle

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The Jan 6th soap opera is looking more like it's been written, produced and sponsored by the same people who brought us the epic Mueller investigation. Unless the story takes a sudden change of direction, it looks like the ending will be the same.
Do keep in mind that the Democrat Politics Playbook borrows heavily from the book RULES FOR RADICALS, by Saul Alinsky and the 45 stated goals of the communist party to take over the USA (introduced into the Congressional Record in 1963, BTW).

Remember when Hillary and the Dems accused Trump of collusion with Russia and it turned out Hillary and the Dems were doing that already? Remember when at the Democrat National Convention when former Obama DOJ official Sally Yates said Trump had weaponized the intelligence agencies? Whoops. Many people saw that as an admission of what had already happened under Obama, and it turns out they were right.

Just a few weeks ago a Biden official worried that if Elon Musk gets control of Twitter he could dial up the "reach" of conservative viewpoints and dial down or suppress liberal viewpoints, which of course is the exact same tactic Twitter has already been using.

"Accuse your opponent of what you are doing, to create confusion and to inculcate voters against evidence of your own guilt." Saul Alinsky

When you combine things like that with the liberal need for being goal oriented for a desired outcome, rather than being systems oriented to get to the truth, you get things like two spectacularly failed impeachment trials, and a Jan 6th Committee hearing where evidence consists of things like what people think about what other people might be thinking, and fifth-handed hearsay that gets treated as gospel.

You can certainly look it up, but for those interested in the 45 started goals for communism takeover of the country, here's a few of them. 1963.


15 — Capture one or both political parties of the United States.

17 — Get control of schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism, communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Control teachers’ associations.

19 — Use student riots to foment public protest against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20 — Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing and policy-making positions.

21 — Gain control of key positions in radio, TV and motion pictures. (The network news stations along with Hollywood are nothing less than the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party).

25 — Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, movies, radio and TV.

26 — Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural and healthy.”

29 — Discredit the American Constitution, call it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs.

30 — Discredit America’s Founding Fathers.

38 — Transfer some of the powers of arrest from police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat. Defund the police.

42 — Create the impression that violence, insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition. Students and special-interest groups should rise up and use united force to solve economic, political or social problems.
 
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coalminer

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For all of you who asked, who is Ray Epps?

This should be a waring to all of you Trump worshippers, if you end up in the wrong place at the wrong time, Trump will use you as his scape goat, and look how people have turned on him.

On one hand I feel sorry for what is going on but he did fall for cheetos lies.
 

Pilgrim

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This is a fine example of the NYT PR machine's product. Epps should be glad he hasn't been rotting in a DC jail for over a year with the hundreds of other protesters that haven't been charged with anything other than just being there on Jan 6th. Regardless, fiction like this from the NYT will generate little sympathy for this guy.
 

coalminer

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This is a fine example of the NYT PR machine's product. Epps should be glad he hasn't been rotting in a DC jail for over a year with the hundreds of other protesters that haven't been charged with anything other than just being there on Jan 6th. Regardless, fiction like this from the NYT will generate little sympathy for this guy.
Fiction? What part of this article is fiction? Did they make it up or did they not interview him?
 

Pilgrim

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Fiction? What part of this article is fiction? Did they make it up or did they not interview him?
From the article:

"Mr. Epps, 61, was not just a bystander on Jan. 6. He traveled to Washington to back Mr. Trump, was taped urging people to go to the Capitol and was there himself on the day of the assault."

Of course they interviewed him and it sounds like Mr. Epps has been well coached by his lawyers and the NYT, but there's too much video and audio that contradict his story. Just another disillusioned Trump voter there trying to keep the peace? Yeah, right.
 
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