The Trump Card...

[RLENT]

Keep in mind that additional security and help from the National Guard was refused on Jan 6th.

Also keep in mind that the two officials with primary responsibility for that (House sergeant-at-arms Irving and Senate sergeant-at-arms Stenger), are both no longer there, having resigned in disgrace.

As well as keeping in mind the fact that then Capitol Police chief Sund has said that he requested the National Guard be deployed early or during the riot 6 different times and was rebuffed or denied:

Sund says during a conference call with several law enforcement officials at about 2:26 p.m., he asked the Pentagon to provide backup.

Senior Army official Lt. Gen. Walter E. Piatt, director of the Army Staff, said on the call he couldn't recommend that Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy authorize deployment, Sund and others on the call told the Post. Piatt reportedly said, "I don't like the visual of the National Guard standing a police line with the Capitol in the background," the Post reported.

It would be more than three hours before any National Guard troops arrived, well after the damage at the Capitol had been done.

Piatt's response to Sund was later confirmed by DC National Guard leader Maj. Gen. William J. Walker.

But the Pentagon didn't just deny that request by Sund for deployment of the National Guard, they also denied a request from DC Mayor Bowser to deploy and expand the National Guard's responsibilities to protect the Capitol:

​

And Chief Sund had some additional insightful thoughts on the events of that day:

“What occurred on January 6th cannot be considered under any circumstances a protest, a rally, or civil disobedience. This was a well-planned, coordinated, armed insurrection at the United States Capitol. The USCP does not have the manpower, the training, or the capabilities to handle an armed insurrection involving thousands of individuals bent on violence and destruction at all costs.”

Prosecution is probably a bridge too far, but why Piatt (and others) haven't been court-martialed, stripped of their rank, and dishonorably discharged is anyone's guess.

The Pentagon needs to conduct a thorough of all personnel and weed-out all extremists and/or terrorist sympathizers.

Had this offer been accepted, the Jan 6 riot likely could have been prevented and the Capitol Bldg would not have been breached.

That assumes they would have actually deployed ... which given the facts covered above is a highly questionable proposition at best.

But even with extra forces in place on inauguration day, millions of dollars in damage was done and a whopping 217 arrests were made. Compare this to the 700+ arrested for their participation on Jan 6.

Sounds like you're making the case that Jan 6th was, in fact, worse ...



I totally agree ... in fact, it was far, far worse.

 

[muttly]

Well, be that as it may, that Eric Lendrum fellow certainly had you snookered ...

Sure, Jan.

 

[RLENT]

Right, and witnesses (even Lt. Byrd, the shooter) observed that she did not have a weapon in her hand when she was shot.

Byrd also noted - while he was holding the rest of the angry crowd at bay - that he had no idea what items she might possess in the backpack she was carrying.

She most likely didn't see the officer who was hidden off to the side behind furniture and divided by glass.

Glass was broken out where she was, and you can draw an unobstructed straight line from where he was to where she was once, she started through the broken out window.

Many witnesses didn't even hear whatever muzzled warning he gave (if any) since he was masked up, behind glass, and with the amount of noise at the time.

In Muttly's Bizarro World, Byrd should have asked (politely, so as to not offend any insurrectionists' little feewings) the rioters to pause their attack and wait ... while he went to see if he could find a bullhorn ... so that they could hear his warning (over all the noise they were making)

No attempt at arresting her either.

Oh ... he arrested her ... permanently.

Tragic and sad to be sure, but ultimately it's on her.

About as bad as it gets as far as justified use of force.

Well that would depend on what the actual criteria are for justified use of force in that particular situation.

The actual professionals responsible for reviewing that apparently have come to different conclusion about it than you have.

Something that is no big surprise.

 

[RLENT]

Sure, Jan.

You haven't shown it to be otherwise.

 

[muttly]

You haven't shown it to be otherwise.

Wrong

 

[RLENT]

Wrong

Well, if you weren't snookered, that would be tantamount to admitting that you knew it was inaccurate before posting it ... and then knowingly posted it anyways.

Either way, I'm good.

 

[RLENT]

(Likely Grandma) "Esther" should probably count her blessings that the Feds aren't asking asking for her to do actual time:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1480270903778947080

 

[muttly]

Byrd also noted - while he was holding the rest of the angry crowd at bay - that he had no idea what items she might possess in the backpack she was carrying.



Glass was broken out where she was, and you can draw an unobstructed straight line from where he was to where she was once, she started through the broken out window.



In Muttly's Bizarro World, Byrd should have asked (politely, so as to not offend any insurrectionists' little feewings) the rioters to pause their attack and wait ... while he went to see if he could find a bullhorn ... so that they could hear his warning (over all the noise they were making)





Oh ... he arrested her ... permanently.

Tragic and sad to be sure, but ultimately it's on her.



Well that would depend on what the actual criteria are for justified use of force in that particular situation.

The actual professionals responsible for reviewing that apparently have come to different conclusion about it than you have.

Something that is no big surprise.

Hold them at bay? Is that how crowd control is supposed to work?Blast the first one you see? I’m not aware that is in any police manual regarding dealing with protesters. I also haven’t seen that method used with the multiple of protests/ riots that have occurred.
He didn’t know what was in her backpack?She would have to actually get into the bag first to have it in her hands. It’s called restraint until you see a weapon.
The position of Babbitt was right at the entrance of the broken glass, not on his side. The impact of the shot made her fall backward back into the hallway, not in the room. She was hit before she even entered the room.
It’s not in any bizarro world to expect an officer to be competent enough to understand there is a lot of commotion and someone won’t hear them with a mask on. And know this and use restraint. He still had adequate time to assess the threat of great bodily harm or worse if she entered and grabbed a weapon out of her bag or lunged at him. A properly trained officer is taught to escalate to lethal force only as last resort.

 

[muttly]

Also keep in mind that the two officials with primary responsibility for that (House sergeant-at-arms Irving and Senate sergeant-at-arms Stenger), are both no longer there, having resigned in disgrace.

As well as keeping in mind the fact that then Capitol Police chief Sund has said that he requested the National Guard be deployed early or during the riot 6 different times and was rebuffed or denied:



Piatt's response to Sund was later confirmed by DC National Guard leader Maj. Gen. William J. Walker.

But the Pentagon didn't just deny that request by Sund for deployment of the National Guard, they also denied a request from DC Mayor Bowser to deploy and expand the National Guard's responsibilities to protect the Capitol:

View attachment 21079​

And Chief Sund had some additional insightful thoughts on the events of that day:



Prosecution is probably a bridge too far, but why Piatt (and others) haven't been court-martialed, stripped of their rank, and dishonorably discharged is anyone's guess.

The Pentagon needs to conduct a thorough of all personnel and weed-out all extremists and/or terrorist sympathizers.



That assumes they would have actually deployed ... which given the facts covered above is a highly questionable proposition at best.



Sounds like you're making the case that Jan 6th was, in fact, worse ...



I totally agree ... in fact, it was far, far worse.

When Sund give those comments?

 

[danthewolf00]

So what ?

To even legally possess firearms in the District of Columbia, the firearms must be registered with DC Metro Police.

People that own firearms who want to bring a firearm into DC are required to start the registration process IMMEDIATELY upon arrival, otherwise they are in violation of the law.

Once someone has obtained such a permit, then the firearms may be legally possessed - but, as a general matter, only in the person's home or place of business.

Carrying a handgun outside of your home or place of business is potentially a felony charge ... unless you have a carry permit from the District.



That is surprising ... and shows incredible restraint on the part of law enforcement officer who were on the scene that day.

There could have been many, many insurrectionists that got shot based on their conduct that day ... and it would have been entirely justified.



Five law enforcement officers ultimately died as a consequence of what happened that day.

How Many Died as a Result of Capitol Riot?

They either killed themselves or died of something else......

 

[danthewolf00]

Byrd also noted - while he was holding the rest of the angry crowd at bay - that he had no idea what items she might possess in the backpack she was carrying.



Glass was broken out where she was, and you can draw an unobstructed straight line from where he was to where she was once, she started through the broken out window.



In Muttly's Bizarro World, Byrd should have asked (politely, so as to not offend any insurrectionists' little feewings) the rioters to pause their attack and wait ... while he went to see if he could find a bullhorn ... so that they could hear his warning (over all the noise they were making)





Oh ... he arrested her ... permanently.

Tragic and sad to be sure, but ultimately it's on her.



Well that would depend on what the actual criteria are for justified use of force in that particular situation.

The actual professionals responsible for reviewing that apparently have come to different conclusion about it than you have.

Something that is no big surprise.

There is no justification in excessive force....or even deadly force if no weapon is used.

 

[RLENT]

When Sund give those comments?

You can probably look at that up ... and then post a screenshot of it.



In the meantime you might want to actually educate yourself as to the multiple charges for conspiracy that DOJ is currently pursuing, as there are a number of them:

DOJ’S APPROXIMATE JANUARY 6 CONSPIRACIES

And that's only what is publicly known of the investigations - which are never completely public - so far.

Would be a far better use of time (IMO) ... along with clearing up any possible misunderstandings about what the phrase "to conspire" actually means.



As far as the screenshot you posted goes:

The definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing over and over ... and expecting a different result.

 

[danthewolf00]

Tazer or tear gas yes but shooting someone with no weapon in their hands while climbing through a window.....I could see rubber bullets maybe.

 

[RLENT]

They either killed themselves or died of something else......

The Medical Examiner found that the events of the day contributed to Officer Sicknick's death I believe.

Fairly easy to make the same argument for the officers who suicided themselves in the aftermath.

 

[RLENT]

There is no justification in excessive force....or even deadly force if no weapon is used.

The justification for the use of deadly force under the law is a very specific thing and bears on the mindset of the officer involved.

The decision that it was justified was reviewed and upheld by those charged with reviewing the matter.

Those are the simple facts ... which care nothing about anyone's feelings on the matter.

Sorry.

 

[muttly]

You can probably look at that up ... and then post a screenshot of it.



In the meantime you might want to actually educate yourself as to the multiple charges for conspiracy that DOJ is currently pursuing, as there are a number of them:

DOJ’S APPROXIMATE JANUARY 6 CONSPIRACIES

And that's only what is publicly known of the investigations - which are never completely public - so far.

Would be a far better use of time (IMO) ... along with clearing up any possible misunderstandings about what the phrase "to conspire" actually means.



As far as the screenshot you posted goes:

The definition of stupidity is continuing to do the same thing over and over ... and expecting a different result.

That Sund quote was early on before investigations were well into them and were able to access more of what happened. #factsmatter

 

[RLENT]

Tazer or tear gas yes but shooting someone with no weapon in their hands while climbing through a window.....I could see rubber bullets maybe.

Another vote for Officer Byrd to politely ask the domestic terrorists to refrain from any further rioting - please and thank you's - while he went and found a taser or some tear gas.

 

[muttly]

The Medical Examiner found that the events of the day contributed to Officer Sicknick's death I believe.

Fairly easy to make the same argument for the officers who suicided themselves in the aftermath.

It would be just speculation.

 

[muttly]

Another vote for Officer Byrd to politely ask the domestic terrors to refrain from any further rioting - please and thank you's - while he went and found a taser or some tear gas.

How about just waiting until he saw a deadly weapon in her hand first at least? No evidence she was a domestic terrorist.

 

[RLENT]

That Sund quote was early on before investigations were well into them and were able to access more of what happened. #factsmatter

Yes ... and the report you screen-shotted references a Reuters report ... which quotes "anonymous sources" and a "former senior law enforcement official"



Ultimately, whatever charges DOJ brings will speak to the issue.