The Trump Card...

[muttly]

I didnt hear the officer on the tape. Did you?

 

[muttly]

Busting out windows and breaking down doors is though.

She didn't bust down the door or break any windows.

 

[RLENT]

Some of it was gone. The small section she was attempting to go thru. But the rest was still there. And that is where the officer was. Off to the side with a mask on.

The officer was off to the side (left), facing towards the window on the right where she came through.

It would be a muzzle sound if anything.

I dunno ... if it was me, and an law enforcement office was yelling instructions I couldn't make out or understand - and pointing his sidearm at me - I'd probably want to clarify exactly what his desires were ... well before attempting to venture into the space where he was.

Those officers by the door who left should have stayed there until the other officers were there.

Thank you for your tactical insights.

But they didn't think Defcon 1 officer would absurdly overreact.

Oh ... so you have obtained their personal testimonies then ?

Did they identify themselves by name or badge number ?

Sworn statements for the record ?

 

[muttly]

As single-shot shootings typically do.



Before she was shot, the glass in the window was broken out ... otherwise she wouldn't have been able to climb through it ...

Unless you believe she possesses some other-worldly MAGA mystical powers and can pass through glass.

In which case, she ought to be able to hear him too.





I didn't say that at all.

I just stated the facts:

Officer gave the order.

He and his gun were visible.

Other folks noted that quite loudly.

She failed to comply.



Have much experience with trying to control an unruly mob that is exhibiting violence ?



Continued justifications, minimizing, and excuse-making for the rioters and insurrectionists is the textbook definition of rationalizing.

Don't put down that shovel, keep on digging ...

I'm not excusing the the violent ones. Just making a distinction between those and the trespassers. But some can't make that distinction presumably thru incompetence or a distorted political lens out of disdain for all Trump supporters.

 

[RLENT]

She didn't bust down the door or break any windows.

Regardless, she was part of the mob that did.

Which begs the question:

Being there and observing those unlawful acts taking place, why didn't she just turn around, walk away, and leave ?

If she had done that, she'd probably still be alive.

One could reasonably infer that she either approved of and supported what was taking place ... or didn't see much of anything wrong with it.

 

[muttly]

The officer was off to the side (left), facing towards the window on the right where she came through.



I dunno ... if it was me, and an law enforcement office was yelling instructions I couldn't make out or understand - and pointing a sidearm at me - I'd probably want to clarify exactly what his desires were ... well before attempting to venture into the space where he was.





Thank you for your tactical insights.



Oh ... so you have obtained their personal testimonies then ?

Did they identify themselves by name or badge number ?

Sworn statements for the record ?

She didn't see the officer. Pretty obvious

 

[muttly]

Regardless, she was part of the mob that did.

Which begs the question:

Being there and observing those unlawful acts taking place, why didn't she just turn around, walk away, and leave ?

If she had done that, she'd probably still be alive.

One could reasonably infer that she either approved of what was taking place ... or didn't see much of anything wrong with it.

A lot of the people there most likely didn't see everything that was happening. The violent part. People were coming in at different times, thru different doors, in different parts of the building. The only part of property damage she may have seen was the glass door. And climbing thru that glass shouldn't have got her killed.

 

[RLENT]

She didn't see the officer. Pretty obvious

And what ... was she so hard of hearing that she couldn't hear multiple people screaming "GUN !" ... "HE'S GOT A GUN !" ?

Dunno about you, but I'm thinking that my first inclination were I in similar situation, would be to pause (if not duck and cover), and try and have a little look around and assess the situation ... before venturing further into an area where I wasn't authorized to be, which is protected by scads of lethally armed police.

 

[muttly]

And what ... was she so hard of hearing that she couldn't hear multiple people screaming "GUN !" ... "HE'S GOT A GUN !" ?

Dunno about you, but I'm thinking that my first inclination were I in similar situation, would be to pause (if not duck and cover), and try and have a little look around and assess the situation ... before venturing further into an area where I wasn't authorized to be, which is protected by scads of lethally armed police.

It happened too quickly.
Why weren't the other officers by the door afraid of her and draw their weapons? Just a complete overaction.
Do riot control officers routinely shoot rioters?

 

[RLENT]

I'm not excusing the the violent ones.

Right.

Just making a distinction between those and the trespassers.

Ok.

But some can't make that distinction presumably thru incompetence or a distorted political lens out of disdain for all Trump supporters.

Sure.

 

[RLENT]

A lot of the people there most likely didn't see everything that was happening. The violent part.

So what ?

She was right up near the front, giving officers who were just trying to do their jobs loads of crap.

"Back The Blue"

Yeah, sure ... right ...

People were coming in at different times, thru different doors, in different parts of the building.

So what ?

The only part of property damage she may have seen was the glass door.

Ain't that water getting heavy ... after all, you've carried so much of it.

And climbing thru that glass shouldn't have got her killed.

Bad luck for her ... to be part of a violent mob who provoked that sort of reaction ...

 

[RLENT]

It happened too quickly.

The events leading up to the shooting were not really all that quick.

Happens over several minutes:

Video shows fatal shooting of Ashli Babbitt in the Capitol

From the above:

At one point John Sullivan, a controversial self-described liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests and who filmed the footage on Wednesday, is heard warning an officer that additional rioters may be on their way. “We want you to go home,” he said, according to the video. “I’m recording. And there’s so many people. They’re gonna to push their way up here. Bro, I’ve seen people out there get hurt. I don’t want to see you get hurt.”

Sullivan provided the video to the The Post.

Another man, wearing a red Trump hat, told the officers, “We backed you guys in the summer. When the whole country hated you, we had your back.”

At this point, one officer guarding the door said to the others, “They’re ready to roll,” and gestured to them to come with him, the video shows. The officers stepped away from the door together and moved to an adjacent wall.

With the door clear of law enforcement, some of the rioters renewed their efforts to break through. One used a helmet, and another tried with a flagpole.

About 20 seconds after the officers stepped aside, a loud scream is heard on the footage. One man shouted three times that an officer on the other side of the door had a gun. An officer with a gun can be seen at the edge of the video’s frame. The warning was repeated by another man, but other rioters continued trying to smash through the doorway.

I suspect that the "they" in "They're ready to roll" above refers to the tactical officers who advanced up the stairs armed with long guns, ready to clear the area ... which they ultimately did.

Why weren't the other officers by the door afraid of her and draw their weapons?

Who says they weren't afraid of her ... or the others with her ?

So ... drawing your weapon - in a confined area crammed full of hostile people who are right up in your face - is how you would approach it then ?

To me, that kinda sounds like a real good way to get myself disarmed ... and possibly get myself shot and killed by some enraged lunatic.

Just a complete overaction.

Nope.

Do riot control officers routinely shoot rioters?

 

[RLENT]

I didnt hear the officer on the tape. Did you?

Yes I believe I did at one point ... but it was quite sometime ago.

 

[muttly]

Yes I believe I did at one point ... but it was quite sometime ago.

Nobody heard him.

 

[muttly]

The events leading up to the shooting were not really all that quick.

Happens over several minutes:

Video shows fatal shooting of Ashli Babbitt in the Capitol

From the above:



I suspect that the "they" in "They're ready to roll" above refers to the tactical officers who advanced up the stairs armed with long guns, ready to clear the area ... which they ultimately did.



Who says they weren't afraid of her ... or the others with her ?

So ... drawing your weapon - in a confined area crammed full of hostile people who are right up in your face - is how you would approach it then ?

To me, that kinda sounds like a real good way to get myself disarmed ... and possibly get myself shot and killed by some enraged lunatic.



Nope.

The answer to the last question is NO. As it should be.

 

[muttly]

So what ?

She was right up near the front, giving officers who were just trying to do their jobs loads of crap.

"Back The Blue"

Yeah, sure ... right ...



So what ?



Ain't that water getting heavy ... after all, you've carried so much of it.





Bad luck for her ... to be part of a violent mob who provoked that sort of reaction ...

I didn't see her give anyone crap. Just climbed thru a glass where she wasn't supposed to be. Rioters and looters do that all the time.(go in areas where there not supposed to be)The response of officers is not to shoot them.

I certainly back the blue, but not incompetence by an officer that resulted in a bad shooting. Most police experts say it was a ridiculous use of force.
But some I guess are willing to believe whatever authorities tell them about the justification for it. And are not interested at all about the internal investigation if it. About 7 months later and still no release of the name of the officer. In any other case not involving a Trump supporter you would already know the namel(within a day) and there certainly would be more transparency. Not cloaked in secrecy.

 

[danthewolf00]

So rlent by your reasoning attacking a federal court house with fireworks and trying to set it on fire while federal employees are in side defending it is ok but not with what happened at the Capitol building. You are the problem not me then.

 

[danthewolf00]

Do you believe there is no cause to investigate Trump?

Hmmm do you believe there is no cause to investigate Biden?

 

[ATeam]

Do you believe there is no cause to investigate Trump?

Yes

OK. thank you for your response. Our views differ.

I believe there is cause to investigate Trump, and so does the Manhattan DA, and so does the grand jury he convened. This belief will likely be challenged by Trump when the expected charges are laid. At that point, we will likely learn that the court believes it too.

 

[ATeam]

Hmmm do you believe there is no cause to investigate Biden?

I do not know. I have not paid as close attention to the Biden developments and accusations as I have with Trump. As an outsider looking in, living a long, long way from Washington, I have to rely on the actions and reports of others to determine what's going on in Washington political and legal circles. So do you.

A difference I note with Trump is court action is available to see in which real evidence is presented and accepted, and real rulings are made. Trump has a record in court Biden does not have. While we all have our biases, I like using court actions to support my opinions because cases made in court are made under rules of procedure and evidence not seen on talk TV, tell-all books, unnamed sources, and other pure-opinion sources.

When one of Trump's highest-level and most-trusted attorneys (Cohen) comes forward and says under oath that the Trump Organization illegally stated the value of its holdings for the purpose of defrauding banks, insurance companies and tax entities, it looks like probable cause to me. It makes sense that the people vested with the responsibility to investigate such accusations would move to do exactly that.