The Trump Card...

[Turtle]

Impeachment is, and has always been, a political manuver. A crime doesn't need to have been committed.
Why the supporters of Blotus keep bringing this up is beyond me.

Impeachment a political judgment call, crime not required

WASHINGTON (AP) — The conditions for impeaching a president are set out in a passage of the Constitution that is short enough to be a tweet and puzzling enough to be argued over more than two centuries later.

apnews.com

Not sure who Blotus is, but it keeps getting brought up because it's what the Constitution actually says, and it's what the Founding Fathers made very clear in the Federalist Papers, explicitly to prevent partisan, political impeachments. The only people who keep saying no crime is required for impeachment are the same people who want to impeach someone without the predicate of a crime.

 

[Turtle]

Ok, so he used his elected office to further his personal agenda (being re elected) fine, I dont like it, but is it right? Hell no!!!!

There isn't a single elected official who wants to get reelected who doesn't do the same thing. It's how the system is set up. Politician does stuff the voters like, they vote for his reelection. If the politician does stuff the voters don't like, he doesn't get reelected. It's how it works. And it's how it's supposed to work. Did you not know that?

 

[Turtle]

Asking a foreign government to start an investigation on a political rival that would benefit Trump, and only Trump, isn't impeachable?

If it would only benefit Trump, then maybe. But it's most definitely in the interest of the American people to know whether a candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, especially a front runner candidate, is in any way corruptly compromised by a foreign country. Wouldn't you want to know if someone you were about to vote for is or is not corrupt?

"and only Trump"... that's some funny stuff right there.

 

[ATeam]

No need to complicate the simple.

That's true. But political conversations often involve complex matters. Oversimplifying the complicated can be as counterproductive as complicating the simple.

 

[Ragman]

Not sure who Blotus is, but it keeps getting brought up because it's what the Constitution actually says, and it's what the Founding Fathers made very clear in the Federalist Papers, explicitly to prevent partisan, political impeachments. The only people who keep saying no crime is required for impeachment are the same people who want to impeach someone without the predicate of a crime.

If only it was that simple.....

Constitutional Rights Foundation

High Crimes and Misdemeanors High Crimes and Misdemeanors, a reading on the meaning of this strange phrase that is the grounds for most impeachments and an activity in which students determine the outcome of hypothetical impeachment proceedings., High Crimes and Misdemeanors, a reading on the...

www.crf-usa.org

 

[Grizzly]

If it would only benefit Trump, then maybe. But it's most definitely in the interest of the American people to know whether a candidate for the Office of the President of the United States, especially a front runner candidate, is in any way corruptly compromised by a foreign country. Wouldn't you want to know if someone you were about to vote for is or is not corrupt?

"and only Trump"... that's some funny stuff right there.

To answer the question directly, yes I personally would want to know. How do you explain that Trump didn't? All Trump wanted was the announcement of an investigation. So, who would the appearance of a Joe Biden related investigation benefit? You? Me? ... or the big guy himself? .. and only him.

 

[Grizzly]

The indelible beauty of Trump's scams is that he shows his cards and then proceeds to keep lying.
Only Trump can pretend to be investigating corruption, as he's being corrupt!

Tell me, please .... anyone .... Turtle, Moot, Muttly .... anyone ...
How do you guys justify the POTUS being infiltrated by two Ukrainian businessmen, that had the poetic justice of naming their company Fraud Guarantee, as being acceptable?

 

[Ragman]

The only people who keep saying no crime is required for impeachment are the same people who want to impeach someone without the predicate of a crime.

"An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history" ---Gerald Ford

 

[muttly]

The indelible beauty of Trump's scams is that he shows his cards and then proceeds to keep lying.
Only Trump can pretend to be investigating corruption, as he's being corrupt!

Tell me, please .... anyone .... Turtle, Moot, Muttly .... anyone ...
How do you guys justify the POTUS being infiltrated by two Ukrainian businessmen, that had the poetic justice of naming their company Fraud Guarantee, as being acceptable?

Dude, nobody gives a rat's azz about Ukraine. Most can't even find it on a map. So boring. Have you seen the polls? Impeachment is dropping like a rock with Independents, not just Trumpsters. This is a Dem obsession. They don't care about jobs and wages for people. They voted against the tax cut and they haven't brought to a vote the USMCA. They've tried to undermine Trump since he has been elected and have wanted him impeached ever since. Probably would have had a deal with China as well, but now they think they.can wait it out until a Dem President gets back in so they can roll them.
But we're all supposed to care about aid being delayed and STILL released before the deadline. There is a statute that requires cooperation with corruption between U.S. and Ukraine. Sorry, but Biden and his son aren't exempt from investigations. It would be corrupt if Trump told Zelensky that he wanted him to look at corruption but I have a list of people NOT to be looked at and Biden and his son are off limits.

 

[muttly]

"An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history" ---Gerald Ford

Is that in the.constitution?

 

[Ragman]

Is that in the.constitution?

The Constitution defines treason in Article 3, Section 3, Clause 1:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Constitution does not define bribery. It is a crime that has long existed in English and American common law. It takes place when a person gives an official money or gifts to influence the official’s behavior in office.

 

[Turtle]

"An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history" ---Gerald Ford

Dood, that's just the opinion of one guy, who is not the ultimate authority on impeachment, was not a Constitutional scholar, and Is the only person in the history of people to serve as Vice President and President without ever having been elected to either prude by the Electoral College. Would you like to read the opinion of Alan Dershowitz, an actual Constitutional scholar who had argued constitutional before the Supreme Court?

Wouldn't hurt to read this...

An Impeachable Offense Is NOT Whatever the House Says It Is - The American Spectator | USA News and PoliticsThe American Spectator | USA News and Politics

The most frequently quoted one-liner about impeachment is Gerald Ford’s: “An impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers [it] to be at a given moment in history.” Former President Ford was a honorable man who...

spectator.org

 

[davekc]

That's true. But political conversations often involve complex matters. Oversimplifying the complicated can be as counterproductive as complicating the simple.

In some cases true. Not seeing it here. Democrats are claiming a very simple and clear path. I am not seeing it at this point.

 

[Grizzly]

Dude, nobody gives a rat's azz about Ukraine. Most can't even find it on a map. So boring. Have you seen the polls? Impeachment is dropping like a rock with Independents, not just Trumpsters. This is a Dem obsession. They don't care about jobs and wages for people. They voted against the tax cut and they haven't brought to a vote the USMCA. They've tried to undermine Trump since he has been elected and have wanted him impeached ever since. Probably would have had a deal with China as well, but now they think they.can wait it out until a Dem President gets back in so they can roll them.
But we're all supposed to care about aid being delayed and STILL released before the deadline. There is a statute that requires cooperation with corruption between U.S. and Ukraine. Sorry, but Biden and his son aren't exempt from investigations. It would be corrupt if Trump told Zelensky that he wanted him to look at corruption but I have a list of people NOT to be looked at and Biden and his son are off limits.

Thanks for answering the question directly.
Are you saying Trump wasn't infiltrated by Parnas & Fruman through Giuliani?

 

[Turtle]

Thanks for answering the question directly.
Are you saying Trump wasn't infiltrated by Parnas & Fruman through Giuliani?

Not sure I agree with infiltrated as the word to use. In Che case, if Trump was infiltrated, that makes Trump the straight-up victim.

 

[Grizzly]

Not sure I agree with infiltrated as the word to use. In Che case, if Trump was infiltrated, that makes Trump the straight-up victim.

They gave advise to Giuliani, who then gave it to Trump and Trump acted on it. I'm not a scholar, call it whatever ....
Thoughts?
Dave, you can chime in too ....
Didn't mean to leave you out

 

[davekc]

They gave advise to Giuliani, who then gave it to Trump and Trump acted on it. I'm not a scholar, call it whatever ....
Thoughts?
Dave, you can chime in too ....
Didn't mean to leave you out

I see a lot of people drawing conclusions on information that isn't supported by very many facts. That may change with regards to these two, but so far it isn't there. Every media outlet is reporting something different.

 

[Grizzly]

I see a lot of people drawing conclusions on information that isn't supported by very many facts. That may change with regards to these two, but so far it isn't there. Every media outlet is reporting something different.

Fair enough ....
We're going to have to wait for the court cases to provide the details. When it does get proved that Trump was influenced and made decisions based on advise from these guys, perhaps then an explanation can be given for Trump's treasonous actions.

 

[Grizzly]

After all, I think some are still looking for the reason why Yovanovitch got recalled.
Hint: ask the guys at Fraud Guaranteed.

 

[Grizzly]