I've got an hour to kill so why not use it here.
Why can germany compete and some of those other nations? They have a content law. so much has to be built there to sell there, The USA has none, See, we are not paying on a level field with other nations. You know as well as i do how long the USA has tried to enter the Japen market with very little sucess because of there laws. cant compare those Greg and you know that.
We compete with Germany, Japan and other countries within our borders and on the world stage. We sell products in their markets too, japan is not just about their laws preventing us from flooding their markets but also about loyalty to things japanese which is lacking here even among the workers who are crying about the unfairness.
England and Italy don't care, and we compete with their labor. BUT I think you missed the point, if we are talking about the global market, then it is a global market and must be viewed as a global market which we are all the same players. If we talk about the home market, then it is obvious that people in the market don't want the crap that these two companies (GM and Chrysler) are putting out, regardless what the price is.
The typical complaint of GM, Ford and Chrysler was "we can't compete because of our cost" which has been a bunch of Bullsh*t. Their cost, like health care, legacy benefits, employee pension and so on does not prevent them from engineering a product that will sell. They want the 15% profit margins they had back in the 70's and if you really really look at their competition, their products are comparably priced - sometimes even cheaper. BUT they don't sell.
And you think the other govs arent involved in there exports< please tell me you know better then that to Greg, China subsizes there steel by the gov still to this day, Japen still subsizes the auto industry to this day, and so on n so on, I think you know this as well, Sometimes I think you post on here hoping others dont know some of the real facts and it looks like yout right, cause you seem to be to smart of a guy to post some of this stuff.
Yea I know China subsidizes their exports a lot, but they also have a different tax system. Japan too has a "Working" relationship with their companies, as does Germany and even Russia to a certain extent.
The real problem is the asinine attitude here in the states with this comparison to other countries that take place among the ignorant when they don't get that they themselves are part of the problem by being adversarial to both the system that brings them employment and the companies they work for.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM ---> US vs. THEM
One eye bleeding example is when I was passing through Europe, I happen to run across workers from Citroen, a Very Union company. NOT one of them had a jacket on that said a word about their union but they had Citroen or the car models they build plastered all over the jackets and even the hats -
pride in the company. After talking to them, I still didn't know what union they belonged to but I know they were driving what they built - very proud of those cars. HERE? I see UAW jackets all over at Wal-Mart, I see them at Kmart (a place any union member should boycott), I see them at sears and other places and I have to read the entire "circle" to figure out where they actually work at. GO into GM, I see Fords, Mexican made Dodge trucks, Canadian made Caravans, and a lot of imports - Toyotas, Saabs, so on.
You know this extends to the "it's not my job" crap. The one thing that the Japanese should have taught the Americans is that everyone WORKS. So like one Japanese supplier who I still visit on occasion, when they have downtime, people are working - painting, cleaning, in the offices doing this or that - but they are flexible and willing to do different things. My last visit to the Rouge, I saw the same thing I have always saw there - people standing around waiting for someone to pick up a box of parts that fell and I heard "that's not my job to do that, call maintenance"
OH, BTW, Henry Ford was the one who gave all employees a raise stating that anyone that worked at Ford should at least make enough to be able to buy the products they build.
YES the UAW didn't give that to anyone. Ford did a lot but he also had some rules that were unfair.
With the start of the $5 day, it wasn't that anyone could get 5 bucks, you had to be a loyal worker, not many absence, not been fired before, and worked there for more than a year.
In the 1927 change over from the Model T to the Model A he fired everyone and made them get hired back at lower wages.
But somewhere along 1917, he instituted a number of educational programs to help the worker, even during that time provided people with plots of land to grow food, believing that home grown stuff was the best. He also established company stores and other things that actually helped the worker.
Americans have killed the good paying job market themselves, We went after the lowest cost product we could buy, as for autos, when Japen first entered the auto market they whee so heavily subsidzed they could undercut the american autos, n still turn a profit, not saying the american auto makers didnt need a wake up cal, they sure did, and they got it, But here we are 30 yrs later and as a people we still dont realize how we are cutting are own throats, now people are screaming, where's the jobs?, there gone.
Actually not all that true.
First off the American based auto companies were warned back in 1957 when the first foreign invasion took place but because of the arrogance of the American companies, the warning was ignored.
The Japanese invasion was actually a good thing to a point. the cheapness of the cars were one factor but another one was quality. Why shouldn't I buy a Toyota that got 25 mpg and was good to me but buy that Volare that rusted out sitting on my drive way? AND the Toyota was cheaper by a third, the dealer service was better and it kept it's resale value.
The American response was the Vega and the Pinto - both which sold a lot but not well enough. AND the vega as you remember was a mess because of the engine - GM had a habit of marketing things that just didn't work.
BUT ...
The real start of the decline was in the 60's when full employment was reached and the economy was booming. What happen was a series of interventions by our great government which brought up inflation, freezing wages and so on. ALL of it screwed the country and left us with an English style economy.
We suffer from the policies of the 1960's, from the great society to the increasing of taxes, and trying to control inflation. It was all further aggravated by the Carter/Reagan moved in the 80's.
We ended up being told we need things, which in fact we don't but that's all we have now - stuff that's worthless.
Regardless of how one preceives the auto companies, they provided lots of high paying jobs, and that pay filtered down to there suppliers, tool shops, steel market, etc, etc , we have now lost all that,you take all these higher paying jobs out of the market you have also taken out all the money they spent. People complain about ,well they got 3 cars, a boat someone had to build those cars, someone had to build that boat. Without good paying jobs, theres no money for people to buy things, other then paying rent, food, heat.
BUT you missed the point, the labor markets could not afford these types of wages for long and with the adversarial attitude toward the companies, the auto worker shot themselves in the foot.
We can't compete with India, not because of the wages but because of the type of worker. The good educated Indian worker is more intelligent than the American worker and if given the same tools, out paces us in productivity.
Can you imagine an Indian worker who does his work by hand, turning out five of what ever. If he learns to operate the same machinery as we have here, what would his productivity rate be?
Why is more important?
The same goes with other workers in other countries but the problem is that the excuses that are hindering us here, are just excuses. Like I said before, the three out of six domestic companies complain about high costs that prevent them from designing and marketing a car within their home market is an excuse and has nothing to do with it. BUT when the labor market is so tightly focused on specific jobs and wages, with no flexibility, then that is a serious problem and prevent us as a country from competing.
