Sprinter Cargo Securement

[RLENT]

Ken,

Thanks for taking the time to go into greater detail - from me, coming into this game with no experience with freight securement, the advice that everyone has provided is invaluable.

>That looks like a short wheelbase Sprinter

Yup I think you're right.

>A 2K lbs WLL load bar is nice, but the walls of the van will give way long
>before the rating of the load bar gets tested.

Right - but given the choice, I'd rather be in that position than the other. $50 for a load bar is cheap insurance.

>Yes, you are.

Hey what can I tell ya ? ..... I think the black 'copters are circling overhead as I type right now. :+

>It's a 1/4" screw. Holes are exactly 2" apart, center to center, and the
>rows of holes are exactly 4 1/2" apart, center to center.
>The power of a few screws can add up quickly.

Right - I was only going off the picture you posted - perhaps it was taken before they were finished running all the screws - as it stood there were way too few screws for my taste.

>I do have a permanent bunk built in there, and it acts as a partial
>bulkhead, even if it's only 21 inches high ....... A Sprinter is still an
>unusual vehicle specially one like mine where the fridge and
>microwave towers above the bunk.

Do you have any pictures of your unit & living area posted up on line ?

>Corny, but hopefully that's a description that can be visualized.

Got it on the barrel/drum securement - it's actually a great description.

>you really don't want to use the sidewalls of a van as the primary
>load bearing contact point for anything heavy.

Yeah .... after looking at the construction and how thin the sheetmetal is that was pretty much my conclusion. I've bent up way too much steel to place alot of trust in anything that thin.

>One time I saw a Sprinter that had been carrying a single 750 lb barrel ......

Ah .... that was your post .... I read that while researching the boards here on EO. You questioned the load securement and the guy said not to worry .... he's "been doing it for years" .... scary ..........

>For a single barrel, however, I always lay a 2x4 across the top ....

Got it - basically the length of the 2x4 is at least as wide, maybe a little wider, as your E-Track is spaced on the floor.

>Anything under 500 pounds and the wall should be fine

Right.

>It's a never-ending process, too.

Of that I'm sure.

>After having said all this, it's way better to over-do it than under-do it.
>Better to be safe than stoopid. ...... You'll be thankful that you were a
>little paranoid ......

That was my take on it .... I'd rather be paranoid and safe ..... than a fool and hurt ... or worse yet ..... dead.

>..... and this is how I do it, you can do it however you want ....
>...... Sorry for rambling. .....

Not at all - that's a great viewpoint on professionalism, and like I said before the advice on freight securement is invaluable.

 

[RLENT]

jrcarroll,

Sounds like you've found two rows of E-Track to come in handy.

Got it on not over tensioning the wall straps. And another vote of confidence for the factory D-Rings.

Thanks for the input.

 

[RLENT]

Well we managed to get the Sprinter shoe-horned into my friends 24" x 36" polebarn - had to move the base for a 17" SouthBend lathe that he's rebuilding which was a real treat. There was about 6" space between the back of the van and the garage door and less than that between the nose and the wall ...... but it fit .... barely. Not a whole of room to work but it sure beats being outside in 20° weather.

We got the cargo bulkhead pulled out (anyone need a basically brand new System Edstrom bulkhead w/ sliding door ?) and I managed to glue up the 2" blue styro to the large cavities on the top of the sidewalls and rear doors. Also foamed in around them with the Great Stuff. Today I'll do the lower portions of the walls .... it will probably be more time consuming since there's more cutting and fitting to do.

Hopefully I can start to lay the E-Track on the floor today.

 

[business]

That Sher is something will think for the in sit . Corey

 

[hondaking38]

i used 3/4 in birch ply on the floor of my sprinter, before installing it i put 4 coats of poly on it, which makes the freight much easier to move on if you need to move it around, it also seals out the dirt, put you seam up towards the front of the vehicle, you will rarely ever haul 3 skids, so its nothing to worry about, i only use ratchet straps and carry a dozen of them, no e-track, i havent had a load slip or move yet,and ive hauled over 600 of them in my sprinter, when you use a good qaulity birch plywood the seams will be the same heighth, so nothing will catch, however no securement is 100% effective, no securement is effective in a roll over...drive safe and keep your distance

 

[RLENT]

Brian,

Thanks for the info. I am planning on using birch on the floor.

Appreciate what you are saying on distance - it's definitely something one can do to keep out of trouble.

 

[Moot]

RLENT:

How goes the project?

 

[RLENT]

Moot,

It's going pretty well, although it's been very time-consuming.

Mostly because of the insulation - putting on the Great Stuff expandiing foam can be a little tricky - especially on the celiing ..... ya can't get too much of it on (big gaps) otherwise it just falls out of the cavity .... inspite of how sticky it is. Getting in the door cavities was a real treat - I got the easy parts ..... but I will probably take a day in the summer when the weather is a little warmer and pull them off and try and get all the nooks and crannies. I'm almost done with the insulation ....except for one little section on the wall over the side door - ran out of 1" Tuff-R. Hate to have to buy another 4' x 8' sheet just to do that ...... but I might go ahead and then plan on pulling the headliner in the cab and insulating that when I do the doors in the summer.

I think it's time well spent though ..... and it should make a big difference in staying warm or cool, depending on the time of year. The one thing I have observed just working on this though is that metal is a tremendous conductor of heat - either into or away from the interior - the less exposed metal there the less heatsink action there will be.

I've got two 13' 9" sections of E-Track installed on the floor. I used 1/4" self-drilling screws in every other hole in the E-Track. The screws on the outside of each piece of E-Track are run through a 1/4" thick flange that is on the outside top (and is actually part of) of the box tubes which are the main frame rails running fore and aft. No bolts in these (no clearance) just screws - but they can be torqued down very tight because there's some thick metal there for them to grip into. Drilling all the pilot holes into these was a very time-consuming task - probably over hundred holes easy.

On the inside of each piece of E-Track the screws only are gripping into the plywood and sheetmetal on the floor which is pretty thin - so I did as you suggested and stuck in a 1/4" bolt every 12" with a 1 1/2" fender washer and self-lock nut - all stainless steel.

I'm going out in a bit to pick up the plywood for the floor and hope to get the grey plastic installed back on the sidewalls later today. Then I can mount the E-Track and plywood for the side walls. I take the digicam with me and snap some pics.

 

[RLENT]

Well I managed to get over to Lowes and pick up two 4' x 8' sheets of 3/4" birch plywood.

Before I went I drew out a cut sheet on a piece of paper - for $4.75 additional I got them to do about 20 cuts (a bargin for sure) and I wound up with enough to do the floor plus make up a center console for some additional storage. I looked at some metal center consoles but at $125 to $200+ they were a little too pricey for me at this time.

I'm planning on screwing the birch plywood down into the existing plywood floor, running the screws flush or slightly countersunk. I noticed in other threads (not necessarily about Sprinters) folks had used Liquid Nails or PL400 adhesive to secure any plywood they added to the floor. I'm not really keen on doing that since I'd like to have the option of pulling or replacing the birch at some point if need be (probably will never need to) - but if not using adhesive is going to pose a problem I guess I'll just bite the bullet and do it. Any thoughts appreciated.

I also picked up another sheet of 1" Dow Tuff-R polyisocyanate insulation ...... hated to spend $16 for it - just to do the little area I had left on the sidewall over the door ..... but upon inspection I realized there is a 2' x 3' area on the side door (where the window would be) that needs done ..... and I decided I might as well just go ahead and pull the headliner in the cab area and do the roof in there while I'm at it ..... no time like the present. Hopefully getting the headliner out won't be too bad (famous last words .... :+ )

With other stuff I had to do yesterday I wasn't able to actually get any work done on the truck, but I'll be going at it all day today.

 

[Moot]

I used PL-400 and screws. You may want to save some plywood to cover the insulation you put where the window should be. Also while you have your headliner down you may want to consider using PL-400 to glue a block of 3/4" plywood or hardwood to the roof to be used for mounting a cb radio. Just glue the wood in an area you would like to mount the cb. I used a load lock to hold the wood block in place while the glue set up. Then replace the headliner and run screws through the radio mounting bracket, through the headliner and into the wood.

 

[RLENT]

Was that onto the metal floor - or was there already plywood down ?

You may want to save some plywood to cover the insulation you put where the window should be.
Assume you're talking about the sidedoor ? There was a grey plastic panel that was in there that I will probably put back up there. Any reason that wouldn't work or should I use plywood for some reason ?

As far as the CB goes ..... I guess should have hung around the house/computer for another hour or so before I headed off to work on it ..... the insulation for the cab roof is a done deal at this point.

The headliner is made of fairly stiff material .... odd looking stuff ..... looks like glued fibers and threads ..... very stiff though ...... in fact it's stiff enough that DC mounted the passenger side grab handle onto it by just using some wood stiffner blocks on the backside of the headliner itself (not attached to anything else.) The headliner has about a 3" level flat directly off the windshield .... it then heads north at a fairly steep angle .... I'm not sure that there's any good way to mount a CB up there .... maybe with a bracket that had a long set of arms.

I will explore this further before I put the headliner back in because a CB was in the plan - I had initially thought about mounting it on the center console I'm going to build - but I'm not real hot on that idea 'cause I don't like the idea of taking my eyes that far off the road. I think there is still enough clearance between the headliner and the insulation that I could glue a piece of plywood to the headliner itself .... maybe that's the route I'll go ......

I did manage to snap some pics tonight just before I left .... unfortunately as I was shutting things down and walking out the door I forgot to grab the camera ....... :+

 

[Turtle]

I went as far as removing the passenger seat and have built a box, a desk, sort of thing, that sits where the seat used to be. Instead of a console, I guess.

It's about 20x29 inches, flat top with a 1/2 inch lip all around. It's 28 inches high. There's a 7 inch high shelve/cubbyhole thing facing the driver where I store paperwork, tissue, CD's, wet wipes, all sorts of stuff. Below that I have the CB and the QC mounted, both within easy reach.

Around back there is another cubbyhole where I have assorted stuff related to the computer, like headphones, external hard drive, DVD storage, whatever. And around front it's got a hanging basket made from that gray storage thingy that was mounted on the side of the passenger pedestal.

It's crude, but works rather well. It is actually the box/desk that I built for the Ford van, and I just stuck it in here until I can build one that is a little more customized for the space it now occupies. It was originally built to cover up three deep cycle batteries, and it turns out that the seat pedestal is about the same size, so it fits like a glove.

Here's an old pic from the Ford. You may have to save the image and zoom in to see things better. But you can see the QC mounted on the side. The bright glare spot near the top pf the QC is the top of the CB peeking out that's mounted next to the QC. You can barely make out the cubbyhole right above the QC, and in the back you can clearly see that cubbyhole (left side is an external hard drive, with headphone laying on top of it. There's a small, white AA battery charger layung to the right of the drive.) and at the bottom is a yellow power strip surge protector. On top of the box is a closed laptop, and in that front left corner is a mounted external CB speaker.

[img=http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9972/img0065lo1.jpg]

It also shows how I have my deck and e-track laid out, except in the Sprinter the one-foot high sidewalls run the entire 108 inches on both sides, terminating at my bunk. The Ford was a short wheelbase, so where the deck ends is exactly 9 feet.

Incidentally, when I insulated that van I originally planned on 3-5 hours to get it done. Took 5 days.

If nothing else, the picture will give you a good idea as to what it's like to be a popcorn kernel living inside of a Jiffy Pop pan.

 

[RLENT]

Hey Ken,

Looks like the image didn't get linked or attached.

I'd really love to see your "mega-desk" ...... it would be nice to have all that storage space available. This might be something I'll look at doing down the road depending on how things develop. For now I planning leaving the seat in ..... since my wife might end up accompanying me on some trips ..... either as a passenger or possibly as a co-driver .... just need to see how that develops.

I was planning on reusing the grey plastic basket myself .... once I figure out how to get it off the seat.

On the lower sidewalls, I had some leftover 3/4" plywood from what I had cut to mount the E-Track on the sidewalls. It's 9" high and I figured I would use this to create three open storage bins along the walls - one each behind each wheelwell at the rear doors, and one in front of the right wheelwell at the sidedoor. I'm purposely leaving the long space in front of the left wheelwell open with the idea that this is where I'll put an Espar heater and the battery bank for the inverter (...... not sure if that's a good idea or not ...... may be it's a non-issue if I'm using AGM batteries.)

Incidentally, when I insulated that van I originally planned on 3-5 hours to get it done. Took 5 days.
That's great to hear ...... I don't feel quite as bad now :+ There's definitely alot of measuring, cutting and fitting involved. And of course you can't overdo the foam all at once.

 

[Turtle]

Anyone else having a problem seeing the picture? It shows up fine for me.

Here it is, directly linked, or copy and past this into your browser:
img204.imageshack.us/img204/9972/img0065lo1.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9972/img0065lo1.jpg


The basket is riveted on, so you just need to pop the rivets. A chisel and a good rap of a hammer does the trick.

The Espar is usually mounted right behind the driver's seat in most Sprinter installations. In my case that wasn't possible because there's a fridge there. On mine it's mounted along the passenger sidewall, behind the bunk, in front of the wheel well, just behind the step down area. The heater is about the size of a shoe box. It just needs to be mounted for easy access to the fuel tank.

In an enclosed space like the van you definitely want AGM batteries. And with AGM's you can put them anywhere. (You do want the inverter to be as close as possible to the batteries, even if that means at the back of the van, and then you'd run extension cords from the inverter to the appliances or power strip.) Depending on how many batteries you're gonna need, weight will be an issue, and not necessarily the issue you might be thinking of. If you have 200 pounds of batteries, and you weight 200 pounds, for example, with you being on the driver's side you would probably want to place the batteries on the passenger side of the van. Otherwise the suspension will eventually develop a permanent tilt. Not to mention, if the van is unbalanced to one side or the other, it can make driving more dangerous.

With me and the fridge, microwave, and my printer/copier/scanner all right there at the driver's seat, I need to make sure that I don't have the bulk of the battery weight on the same side of the van. Just something to keep in mind.

Yeah, it takes a lot longer to insulate one of those things than one would think. If you can ever see the picture you'll see that I used the silver bubble pack foil. The holes in the door and in the sidewalls I just stuffed some pink stuff in there, but the rest was all silver. And you'll see that it looks like it was sprayed on, where every curve, nook and cranny were covered like skin.

I used Liquid Nails (basically the same stuff, but actually it was Loctite Power Grab in the same kind of tube, good for indoor/outdoor use) and used beads of it like normal. Then I also used some 3M spray glue, extra strength. I've just seen too many insulation jobs like that where the insulation starts falling down after a month or so. The spray glue worked very well, and I probably could have gotten by using just it without the beaded adhesive. It worked much better for smaller pieces, like a 3 or 4 inch piece that I'd have to cut to fit around this or that or to fill in an empty space here or there. I beaded the area of the wall or ceiling where the insulation would go, then sprayed the area with the spray glue, waited a few seconds for the glue to get tacky, then placed the insulation.

Then I sealed every seam with foil tape as I went along.

Insulating the Sprinter was nearly as time consuming, for many of the same reasons. I also used a combination of the Loctite and spray glue, and used the canned foam to fill in the empty spaces. I haven't yet, but I will be putting some of the silver bubble insulation on the exposed metal on and around the doors. Those two curved sections on either side of the rear doors, where the sidewalls meet the back of the van, and the metal areas around the rear door latches, those are gonna be a booger to do, which is why it's not done already. That's where spray glue will work best. Cut a piece to fit, spray the glue onto the insulation, wait, press in place. You're going to want to do most of your spraying outside the van, and probably with the wind at your back.

 

[RLENT]

Ken,

I can see the picture now. Looks like you're trying to keep the CIA or space aliens from reading your thoughts. You get any ribbing about it ?

It looks great tho' - like it was vacuum-applied.

I'll try givin' the basket a whack and see what happens.

I've seen a Sprinter (ex-FECC) with the Espar mounted directly over the fuel tank along the sidewall behind the driver's seat - it didn't seem like a great place to me, given I've already had to try and get my hands between the fuel tank and the bottom of the floor from underneath - not alot of room there. I was planning on putting mine a little further back, closer to the left rear wheelwell.

Got it on th weight distribution aspect - my son has two trucks (P700 Freightliner and a P500 Workhorse) both of which have permanent "tilt" issues so I know what you're saying.

I haven't kept count of all the foam I've used but I'd say I'm at 40+ cans at least ....... One of the biggest problems so far is that there is a void at the bottom of the walls which extends past the floor of the vehicle, down to where the body side panels end. In certain places this is closed off - so the foam doesn't go all the way down and get wasted filling an area that doesn't need insulated .... in other areas though ya hafta watch it otherwise the foam just falls down in the cavity. I noticed tonight while doing the side door that the cavity at the bottom of it was fairly small/narrow ..... so it might not be all that bad along the bottoms of the walls .... but I have to crawl under the vehicle tomorrow and scope it out.

The back corners will be a pain to do like you say. I like the idea of the foil - especially for the top rail of the side walls where the cargo area lights are - those areas are huge cavities and there's no real good way to get in there to spray foam it. The foil is fairly easy to apply I would guess, although I can imagine it takes alot of time to form-fit it like you've done and get it looking really clean. On the otherhand, when you finished you basically created a sealed insulated cocoon. I don't know that the route I chose will be quite as effective.

I tried uploading a couple of pics of my progress thus far and keep getting a script error - maybe due to the problems EO has been having recently. I'll try again later.

 

[RLENT]

Figured it out ..... file was too large.

I used several different foamboard adhesives to hold the pieces up - Loctite Power Grab for foamboard, some stuff in a yellow tube from Lowes, and my favorite - PL300. The PL300 was thicker and a little more tacky than the other two. I also applied expanding foam to the backside of the panels to help them adhere. And I foamed in around all the panel edges.

To get the large foamboard panels (approximately 2' 4') to conform to the curve of the roof and stay up while the foam cured I used a pair of extendable tripods from a set of halogen worklights - stick the panel up in place and then jam the tripod tube onto it and tighten the lock rings and let it cure overnight.

 

[Turtle]

Good info and great pics. Surprisingly, I never got any tin-foil hat comments about that van. hehe The comments I got most were when people, especially other E-350 owners, heard any of the doors slam. It was rock solid and closed with a heavy, muffled thud.

The Sprinter, with all it's large voids and weird nooks, doesn't as easily lend itself to being Jiffy Popped. Large foam boards are probably the best way to go, then fill in with smaller pieces where needed. Like I said, I'll be doing the exposed metal parts with the silver insulation soon.

Instead of putting up a 6-inch or whatever it is strip along where the cargo lights are, I may even go ahead and cut large panels and glue them to the inside of the gray wall liners, with an extending lip that will cover the metal strip up by the cargo lights. In effect, a large sheet of silver insulation held in place by the gray liner.

As for the Espar, not sure if you plan on installing it yourself or will have someone else do it. In either case, the closer to the tank the better, for a couple of reasons. One is, it's easier to install, and the other is, you want to limit the exposure of the fuel line between the heater and the tank. A long fuel line will freeze easier. The folks at Espar of Michigan in Romulus are the experts, so defer to them on the exact placement. If there's a problem with where you want it go to, they'll tell ya.

Mine isn't in the precise place I'd like it, but it's the best place for it insofar as operation. I'd prefer it to be about 4 inches further back, but that would have created several problems. Another thing to keep in mind is that it uses 4-inch, round duct tubing for the heat output and the cold air return. Essentially, the same as an exhaust duct on a clothes dryer. 90 degree angles is all you can get out of that duct, so you can't mount it too close to anything for or aft, like the wheel well. You can get it close, but not right up next to it.

Just do what I did. Tell them where you'd like it, but to put it in the best place.

I have a unique problem because of my bunk. It's about mid-thigh high and is solid from one side of the van to the other. So from the thigh down it acts as a bulkhead, and an airflow barrier. The Espar was initially installed with the heat output hose running up the sidewall, pointing to the ceiling. OK, the problem with that is, heat rises already. It was well above the bunk, so the heat was evenly distributed, but it was only well distributed horizontally. Meaning, at the bunk level, when laying bed, the temp might be a perfect 72 degrees. Stand up and at your head it might be 130 degrees, and at your toes it might be 12. lol

Rerouting the ductwork so that it shoots out at floor level, running through the bunk and dumping out in the cab area, keeps my toes warm, and has a more even heat distribution from floor to ceiling. Except, there's that airflow barrier of the bunk. The heat is essentially even in the front, but there is like an invisible wall immediately aft of the bunk. When it's brutal cold you can really feel it, where if you lay on your back and hold your arms out to the side, the arm towards the front of the van is warm and the arm pointing towards the back door will be cold. Gonna get with Espar and get a "T" set up to split the heat output between the front and back of the bunk.

Because my batteries are under the bunk, there is little room to play with the duct work. If you leave the entire area open where you can get good airflow from floor to ceiling, you shouldn't have any problems. It's just something to keep in mind if you ever decide to put something solid across the van.

 

[RLENT]

I've driven it a couple of times since I started putting the insulation in and it is starting to get a little quieter.

On the Espar, yeah ..... I was thinking of installing it myself .... will probably depend on whether I can find a good "cash-n-carry" deal on one or not. Espar says they are pretty easy to install - takes about three hours or so. I'm fairly mechanically inclined, so .....

Good point on the fuel feed line length for the heater. Have you ever scoped out the lines on the rear of the fuel tank on your Sprinter ? What's up with the big coils of line on the rear end of the tank ...... I've never seen anything quite like that .... reminds me of a fuel chill-can I used to have on my 67 Chevelle ..... only there's no can to stick the ice in.

Got it on the 90° elbows and the heater placement. Yeah, a tee setup to distribute the heat oughta help - I fairly sure they offer tees .... thought I saw them in the manual or the accessory guide. Another idea to consider is to run a piece of duct towards the rear for the cold air return - that ought to help to pull the heat further back.

I'm thinking that will probably put my bunk along a sidewall due to my height (6' 1") - cross-wise across the truck ain't gonna get it unless I go with a MootBedâ„¢ sofa sleeper type setup. The only problem with the sidewall placement is that in doing so it would probably be unusable while loaded. :'(

Seems like ideally a wide bed that could be raised and secured to the celing would be the sweet setup .... but I haven't quite figured out the mechanism yet. I could weld something up out of aluminum which would keep it pretty light ...... wouldn't be cheap though, cost of aluminum being what it is these days .....

 

[Moot]

Looking good ARLENT! This may be a bit late, but have you considered the mounting and cable run for a QualCom? Also a powered roof vent is nice when the weather heats up. Check out Fantastic Fans from Adohen Supply. You can contact Scott at [email protected]

The Diesel Doctor has posted pictures of his bed in a ceiling. Check the E.O. archives. This may give you some ideas.

 

[Moot]

Sorry that link doesn't work. Google Adohen Supply.