So Much for Legal Immigration

[Pilgrim]

While our esteemed political leaders are falling all over themselves to give amnesty to millions of illegal, illiterate Mexican peasants, the Obama administration has apparently prevailed in its efforts to have an educated, white, Christian European family of eight deported. The Romeike family made an attempt to become US citizens legally, applying through the proper channels to emigrate from Germany so they could practice their religion freely and homeschool their children (which is illegal in Germany). Did I mention these people are EDUCATED and SPEAK ENGLISH? The entire country will hopefully be watching to see if Barack Hussein Obama uses his phone and pen to make sure the right thing happens for this couple and their six children.

Obama Admin. Wins Battle to Deport Christian Home School Family - Todd Starnes - Page full

 

[LDB]

They should have taken a crash course in Spanish.

 

[Turtle]

The Romeike's case for asylum has nothing whatsoever to do with them being Christian (despite their initial claim that it did), and neither does the legal decision which reversed their grant of asylum, nor the Supreme Court's decision not to hear the case (we're blaming the Obama administration for Supreme Court decisions now? Really?). The reality is, the German government treats all truancy the same, regardless of the reason.

Because Christians in the United States (and a few other countries) have the right to homeschool their children, they feel that Christians should have the same right in other countries. But they don't. Homeschooling is not a fundamental human right (though, it certainly should be, as parents should be able to raise their children in any way they see fit). In Germany is it illegal to homeschool. You can school your children in public or private school, but it must be an actual school. The German Supreme Court has stated that the purpose of the homeschooling ban is to, “counteract the development of religious and philosophically motivated parallel societies.” That's a position that is abhorrent to most Americans, but then again Germany isn't America, and this is about German law not American law. But Christians are seeking to force their own American and religious principles onto that of a foreign country.

This story was first posted here on EO back in August, spun as "Gays, Muslims and Illegals Granted Asylum, but Christian Family Denied," and it's now being spun in much the same way, because conservatives will trot out anything they can in order to bash the "Obama Administration." This story isn't even news, as presented, which is why you only find it being discussed at conservative bastions like WND, Fox News, The Blaze, Townhall, etc. The fact is, the family came here and claimed religious persecution, which the Department of Immigration nearly always grants initially, but provisionally.

Under US law, “persons who have been persecuted or fear they will be persecuted on account of race, religion, nationality, and/or membership in a particular social group or political opinion” are eligible for asylum in the U.S. And upon arriving in the U.S., asylum-seekers file a petition for asylum. The petition is first seen in the Immigration Court, where an immigration judge rules upon it, almost always granting it. Then, either the petitioner or the government may appeal the decision made by the immigration judge to the Board of Immigration Appeals, and it's almost always appealed as a matter of course, because the claims by the petitioner need to be verified. After the Board of Immigration Appeals issues its decision, a few specific types of cases, asylum among them, may be appealed to the federal circuit overseeing the jurisdiction where the petitioner lives (in the Romeike case, it’s the 6th circuit).

The Romeikes claimed they were "members of a particular social group" and would be punished for their religious beliefs if returned. After the investigation it turns out they weren't at all part of a "particular social group" and would be punished for their religious beliefs if returned, but simply someone who didn't want to follow the laws in Germany.

The Board of Immigration Appeals needed to answer these questions:
(1) Have the Romeikes suffered persecution?
(2) If they did suffer persecution, was it because of their religion?
(3) If they did suffer persecution, was it because of their membership in a particular social group?

The Board of Immigration Appeals answered all of those questions in the negative, and thus their claim for immigration wasn't valid. First, it wasn’t persecution because the anti-homeschooling law was one of general application (not meant to target a specific group, but rather something that applied evenly across the board). Next, because there were secular reasons for the compulsory attendance law, even if it had been deemed persecution it wouldn’t have been persecution suffered because of their religion. Finally, the Board of Immigration Appeals found that German homeschoolers are not a particular social group within the meaning of the act. To be a social group, there must be “social visibility” and “particularity.” Homeschoolers are simply too “amorphous” to constitute a social group eligible for protection under the asylum law.

The freedom of religion argument that people are trying to make is an epic fail, because asylum law does not depend on American constitutional rights. Just because you have a right under the American constitution, that does not mean you will receive asylum because your home country does not recognize that right. Can you imagine all the grants of asylum that would occur if it were that easy? Free speech? Freedom to keep and bear arms? Every current illegal immigrant would instantly be granted asylum.

I do think it's absolutely hilarious that the home schoolers and other ultra conservatives who are practically synonymous xenophobia and are vehemently against multiculturalism just go bat crap crazy over Germany and their system of education to encourage homogeneity within the populace. Isn't it ironic that Germany’s policy is almost exactly the same as what occurred in the United States during the late 19th and first half of the 20th century, when public education in the US was seen as a means to “Americanize” the millions of children immigrating every year. The other irony is that it worked, where immigrants came here, were schooled here and assimilated quite nicely, and ever since home schooling here has increased, so has multiculturalism and we're more divided now that at any time in our nation's history. Thaaaaank home schoolers.

The absurd meme here in the linked article and in the minds of a lot of people asking why Obama wants to give 11 million undocumented immigrants “amnesty” while seeking to deport the Romeike family is ridiculous on the face of it. First, the family was initially granted asylum when Obama was in office, not Bush. Second, Obama himself is not the one making any decisions about the Romeike family. That is an agency decision made by people who are career attorneys within Department of Justice. Administrations come and go, but these career attorneys stay. Third, under the existing law, the Romeikes should be deported.

The fact that people even know of the Romeike family is because of the HSLDA (Home School Legal Defense Association - a conservative Christian group), who crafted the angle and convinced the Romeikes to emigrate to the US in the first place. The Romeikes hadn't even heard of home schooling and religious persecution as a reason for coming to the US, they could have just moved across any number of borders to France, Switzerland, Austria or any number of EU countries which do not require home schooling, but HSLDA attorneys Jim Mason and Mike Donnelly encouraged the Romeikes to move to the U.S. and apply for asylum, with the primary intent of starting a court battle and having homeschooling declared a human right.

Here's a New York Times article that gives the actual facts of the case, including the Romeike's background and the role the HSLDA played.

 

[muttly]

A minor disagreement in Turtle's post. Home schooling doesn't contribute much to the increase of multiculturalism(balkanization) and division in this country.
Report: Homeschooling Growing Seven Times Faster than Public School Enrollment

 

[Pilgrim]

Imagine the gall of these German parents, taking the position their native country's law forbidding home schooling (which has been in place since the late 1930s) violates their basic human right to raise and educate their children in a reasonable and proper manner according their societal and religious beliefs. The fact that they're conservative Christians makes the whole thing even more appalling. Wonder how the Obama administration would be handling this case if they were dealing with a Muslim family trying to escape the oppressive laws of their country's mullahcracy? Considering previously stated positions of the Obama/Holder justice dept. to simply not enforce certain immigration laws that don't suit them, they could certainly ignore the decision of the 6th Circuit, or could have let stand the 2010 decision of an immigration judge in that was in the Romeikes' favor.

There was a time not too long ago that home schooling was illegal in the US. It finally became legal in 1993 and has been on the uptick ever since. The notion home schooling has been a contributing factor to the growth of multiculturalism and our national divide is backwards; if anything home schooling is a result of the well-documented multicultural agenda of the public education system, to say nothing of its declining academic standards.

Back in 1980, home schooling was illegal in 30 states. It was not until 1993 that all 50 states made the practice lawful. But in recent years, the practice of home schooling has taken off. While reliable numbers are hard to come by since states define and track home-school enrollment differently, some experts argue that home schooling is the fastest-growing form of education in the country (Ray, 2011).

The most vocal and organized home schoolers have tended to be religiously motivated, most often conservative Christians. But a newer breed of home schooler is emerging that not motivated by religious belief or countercultural philosophy. Uppermost for these parents are concerns about violence, peer pressure, and poor academic quality in their schools.

So who chooses to home school their children and why? Data from the U.S. Department of Education suggest that although families who home school represent a wide spectrum of racial, ethnic, religious, cultural, and socioeconomic backgrounds, most are white, religious, and conservative. The majority are also well-educated, middle-class, and have two or more children. According to a 2007 survey of parents who home school their children, 36 percent said providing religious or moral instruction was the most important reason for doing it, while 21 percent said they were most concerned about their child’s learning environment. Dissatisfaction with the local academic institutions ranked as the third-most important reason for home schooling their children, with 17 percent giving that response. (Bielick, 2008).

Research Center: Home Schooling

There seems to some question whether the Romeikes sought out the HSLDA or vice-versa, though it appears that a couple of intelligent adults wanting to emigrate their family from Germany didn't have much trouble finding an advocacy group while they were in the process of evaluating their options, including those in Europe. Just because a country has laws in place doesn't make them right (see link below); consider some of the laws of the Muslim countries based on Sharia, or the US laws that used to be in place that denied basic human and civil rights. Just because these people are conservative, White and Christian doesn't make them radical or crazy, even though in today's culture it's fashionable to label them as such. They and others deserve the right to determine the way their children are educated and to be able to practice the religion of their choice - and that's what this case is all about.

Supreme Court sends homeschoolers packing

One last thought: the Meinkes' youngest child was born here is the US after they moved, and is a US citizen. Does the Obama administration intend to split up the family if and when they're deported? Keeping families together certainly has been the basis of the argument for amnesty to all these "dream catchers" that came into the US illegally and started having children that are US citizens. Maybe President Obama should use that pen and pick up his phone.

 

[Turtle]

A minor disagreement in Turtle's post. Home schooling doesn't contribute much to the increase of multiculturalism(balkanization) and division in this country.
Report: Homeschooling Growing Seven Times Faster than Public School Enrollment

While I understand your position, the linked article doesn't really support it. But if you think about it logically, if you take one culture of public education and split that into another culture of home education, then you can't help but to separate and delineate separate cultures, especially when the split is based on politics and religion.

 

[layoutshooter]

Our government is the biggest offender for injecting politics into education. They are taking control of what SHOULD be a local responsibility. It is no wonder people are choosing to home school, it is one of the few ways to keep their children away from government indoctrination and teach them the values and ideas that THEY believe in. Which is their responsibility and right.

 

[Turtle]

Imagine the gall of these German parents, taking the position their native country's law forbidding home schooling (which has been in place since the late 1930s) violates their basic human right to raise and educate their children in a reasonable and proper manner according their societal and religious beliefs.

Yup. It takes almost as much gall to do that as it does to declare as a basic human right that which is not a basic human right, simply because you want it to be a basic human right. It's not like these people who were born and raised in Germany and intentionally chose to bring children into German society were unaware of Germany's ban on home schooling. They were living by the rules, and then one day decided they didn't want to live by the rules anymore, and in order to get around the rules, they want to redefine the basic human rights to fit their own wants and desired.

The fact that they're conservative Christians makes the whole thing even more appalling.

Yes, it does, because they are using their religious-political agenda to make a mockery of, and are contributing to, what is called human rights inflation. Basic or fundamental human rights are rights which apply to all individuals and are indivisible. They apply to everybody simply by virtue of being human. There have been many articulations of rights people have, ranging from the Magna Carta to the Bill of Rights. Each of these have dealt with different types of rights, natural, civil, and so forth. The concept of human rights arose after World War II and the Holocaust. When the United Nations was created in 1945, governments wanted to create a contract between each other to avoid similar international horrors in the future. The result of this was the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) in 1948. It delineated thirty fundamental rights that people everywhere should be guaranteed.

Human rights are both international and high-priority norms that require robust justifications that apply everywhere and support their high priority. They need to be so international and so high-priority so that they can actually be justified as binding on every nation everywhere in relationship to every single human being. They need to transcend cultural diversity and national sovereignty.

This is why in most human rights treaties and declarations you see abstract and universal concepts rather than precise particulars. We can all, at least in theory, agree that freedom of speech is a human right. But what about the freedom to make porn? That is a very specific freedom that will not hold up against the standard of cultural diversity and national sovereignty. The more specific you get in defining a human right, the less binding it is. The more diluted the basic freedoms become.

The four main standards for what are human rights are:
(1) universality (applies to all human beings),
(2) indivisibility (inherent to human beingss),
(3) interdependency (each right depends on the others), and
(4) interrelatedness (each right enhances the other rights).

Put together, this means that all rights are equally important and necessary in creating a strong and healthy society. If a particular right is not as equally important and necessary as other rights in creating a strong and healthy society, then it is not a human right. It can be a civil right or a political good or a privilege, but it is not a human right.

The freedom to get an education is a fundamental human right, but the method in which you obtain that education is not a fundamental right. For example, freedom of movement is a fundamental right. What are some ways in which one could move? You could move by foot, by car, by train, by boat, by plane, by horse, and so many other ways. Is travel by horse a human right? No, of course not. Freedom of movement is a human right. But movement by horse is not a human right. Protecting the former is an international high priority. Protecting the latter is not. Protecting movement by horse would be protecting a particular vehicle for achieving a general right, but not the general right itself. It's the same with any other right, including the right to an education. The right to an education is a protect fundamental right, but the right to vehicle which provides that education is not.

Further, human rights are inherent to individuals as individuals. You cannot have a human right to another individual. So while one can certain argue that homeschooling should be considered a parental right (and I'm one who would argue vehemently for that - you should be able to raise your children any way you see fit), it cannot be a human right because no individual has human rights to another person. You have the human right of movement, but not the human right to make another person move.

Wonder how the Obama administration would be handling this case if they were dealing with a Muslim family trying to escape the oppressive laws of their country's mullahcracy?

Well, since Obama is a Muslim, he'd of course welcome them with open arms.

There was a time not too long ago that home schooling was illegal in the US. It finally became legal in 1993 and has been on the uptick ever since. The notion home schooling has been a contributing factor to the growth of multiculturalism and our national divide is backwards; if anything home schooling is a result of the well-documented multicultural agenda of the public education system, to say nothing of its declining academic standards.

I didn't say home schooling is the cause of multiculturalism, which would be a backwards statement, but it is a factor, one that is self-perpetuating as home schooling grows in response to multiculturalism. It's a chicken and egg thing, where the agenda of multiculturalism in public education arose out of the increasing desire of those wanting to home school, which arose out of the talk of instituting multiculturalism in public education.

Just because a country has laws in place doesn't make them right (see link below); consider some of the laws of the Muslim countries based on Sharia, or the US laws that used to be in place that denied basic human and civil rights.Just because these people are conservative, White and Christian doesn't make them radical or crazy, even though in today's culture it's fashionable to label them as such. They and others deserve the right to determine the way their children are educated and to be able to practice the religion of their choice - and that's what this case is all about.

I agree completely, but that doesn't make it a fundamental human right. Someone in this country (HSLDA) decided to take this on as part of a religious-political agenda, to change the laws and the articulated fundamental human rights, to use the court system to get their way, simply because they want it really, really badly. Ironically, it's the same tactic used by homosexuals to get their way.

One last thought: the Meinkes' youngest child was born here is the US after they moved, and is a US citizen. Does the Obama administration intend to split up the family if and when they're deported? Keeping families together certainly has been the basis of the argument for amnesty to all these "dream catchers" that came into the US illegally and started having children that are US citizens. Maybe President Obama should use that pen and pick up his phone.

I dunno. Does that mean we should consider the Romeike's youngest child an "anchor baby" in the same way we do Mexican anchor babies? I don't see the HSLDA with much of a history of bandwagon jumping for Mexican immigrants with anchor babies who home school. Did you know the Romeike's overstayed their initial visa by three days? When Mexicans do that they are labelled criminal aliens and there are screams to deport them. Why did the Remeike's not suffered the same fate? Is it because they are white? Surely not.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The right to sell ones own body for profit, the right that is suppressed here, but accepted in other cultures as one example....

 

[cheri1122]

The right to sell ones own body for profit, the right that is suppressed here, but accepted in other cultures as one example....

Oh, we can sell our bodies for profit, [ever try to do any work without it?] we just can't sell it for sex. And if we do, it's the women who are criminalized, but not the men. Unless it's gay prostitution.
We do have some screwy [bad pun, but it fits,] priorities, sigh.

 

[cheri1122]

Pilgrim: of which religion is home schooling an inherent part?
Because I don't see where they're prohibited from freely exercising their religion in Germany, myself.

 

[Pilgrim]

Pilgrim: of which religion is home schooling an inherent part?
Because I don't see where they're prohibited from freely exercising their religion in Germany, myself.

I believe their point, and part of their goal in to be able to include religion as a part of their education. Looks like they'll be able to do that now, since POTUS has apparently seen some polling data and decided to pick up his phone. All's well that ends well.

DHS allows German home-schooling family to stay in US | Fox News

 

[Turtle]

I believe their point, and part of their goal in to be able to include religion as a part of their education. Looks like they'll be able to do that now, since POTUS has apparently seen some polling data and decided to pick up his phone.

According to attorney and HSLDA chairman Michael Farris, POTUS wasn't involved at all. "This is an incredible victory that I can only credit to Almighty God."

Also, if Obama were as personally involved in only half of the decisions some in here think he is, he wouldn't have time for speeches, food or sleep. Some people actually believe that any decision involving "the Obama administration" is a decision where Obama personally makes the call. If that were true, then Obama would have to be classified as the smartest, most organized person ever to hold the office of president, or any executive position for that matter.

All's well that ends well.

I guarantee you, now that the precedent has been set with this decision, you're not gonna like the unintended consequences. People will get to claim religious persecution and request asylum for all sorts of reasons. Only 30 countries allow home schooling, with the same basic requirements as the US insofar as the quality of education. 31 countries don't allow any home schooling at all under any circumstances. 9 countries, like Germany, allow it, but only for very specific, rigid circumstances.

If the Romiekes want to immigrate to the United States, that’s fine, but they need to go through normal immigration channels, which they did not do. No cutting in line, no taking a limited asylum slot from those who are truly persecuted as a "class" because they happen to have a personal issue with Germany’s public education system. They should have just applied for immigration just like everybody else, rather than making up a reason to squeeze in, as part of the political agenda of a special interest group.

This is especially true where multiple options exist. They could have simply crossed the border and gone to Austria, where the culture is similar, homeschooling is allowed, and the national language is German. Easy peasy.

The only reason the Romeike family came to the U.S. was as a test case for the HSDLA, which wanted a case they could leverage to try to make homeschooling recognized as an international “basic human right”. It certainly wasn’t the family’s only choice (easier options were available) and they were well aware it was a risky one – the HSDLA explained that to them. I certainly don’t feel any sympathy for them, and it's not because they're white, or Christian. It's because they're trying to inflate fundamental human rights with specific wants, which devalues the fundamental rights, which is precisely what the Gay Agenda has and is doing to the basic human rights. It's the same thing that prompted the lesbian to walk into a Muslim barber shop and demand a haircut.

 

[LDB]

POTUS wasn't involved at all. "This is an incredible victory that I can only credit to Almighty God."

Isn't that what Obama thinks he is?

 

[Pilgrim]

For anyone that thinks that Obama & Holder weren't aware of and involved with this case, I've got some beachfront property in East TN available at a bargain price - just PM me for details. Regarding the Almighty Obama: instead of throwing lightning bolts and and releasing the Kraken, he uses his phone and pen. It's obvious he or one of the subordinates in his administration used one or the other in this matter to avoid the political ramifications that might crop up in an election year. Final point: has anyone considered that encouraging the immigration of more Caucasian, educated Christians by whatever means necessary might be beneficial to our society? Maybe there are more of them that want to get out of certain parts of Europe.

 

[Turtle]

For anyone that thinks that Obama & Holder weren't aware of and involved with this case, I've got some beachfront property in East TN available at a bargain price - just PM me for details.

Holder was certainly aware and involved, since the Supreme Court filing was Romeike v Holder. Obama was possibly aware, superficially, but almost certainly not involved on a personal level in the decisions of the DOJ and DHS at any time. That's what he has the DOJ and DHS for. As the CEO, he has no reason or motivation to become involved in the day-to-day operations of most of his administration's departments, much less individual cases within those departments. He's not the one who sits down in front of the computer and goes through the We The People petitions, either.

Regarding the Almighty Obama: instead of throwing lightning bolts and and releasing the Kraken, he uses his phone and pen.

I'm a little struck by just how much "go getter" credit you give to Obama.

It's obvious he or one of the subordinates in his administration used one or the other in this matter to avoid the political ramifications that might crop up in an election year.

Political ramifications? Like what... that he might alienate the white Christian Right and they might not vote for a democrat? Okie.

Final point: has anyone considered that encouraging the immigration of more Caucasian, educated Christians by whatever means necessary might be beneficial to our society? Maybe there are more of them that want to get out of certain parts of Europe.

Encouraging white educated Christians to immigrate here is one thing, but to do it "by whatever means necessary" is quite another, because "whatever means necessary" necessarily encompasses the notion that the ends justify the means and the rules of law be dаmned. Not sure just how Christian that really is. Also, it depends on who is doing the encouraging. If it's the federal government doing it and they add Religious-Based as a category to the immigration categories of Family-Based, Employment-Based, and Refugee-Based, then you need to just tear up the Constitution, starting with the First Amendment, and be done with it.

 

[layoutshooter]

" then you need to just tear up the Constitution, starting with the First Amendment, and be done with it."

OBama has already done that, he started with the Bill of Rights and went from there. All his minions cheered as he worked. Now, a little at a time some are beginning to realize how he is now going after THEIR freedoms.

 

[letzrockexpress]

Pilgrim: of which religion is home schooling an inherent part?
Because I don't see where they're prohibited from freely exercising their religion in Germany, myself.

Excellent question.. I can only imagine that if this family was Muslim, this thread would never have been started.

 

[letzrockexpress]

Additionally, I cannot for the life of me understand why a German family would want to remove their children from the current German education system in favor of Home Schooling. Perhaps it is some sort of anti social issue or superiority complex on the part of the parents.

Teachers in Germany are held to very strict standards unlike the U.S. Most Germans have some sort of College degree, many of them advanced, and, for the most part, the government pays for higher education, provided the student can pass the proper exam. A test such as the Arbitur, is an entrance exam for University. Because of the high education standards in Germany, It is highly unlikely a German child home schooled in the U.S. or anywhere else for that matter is going to get a better education than they would in their home country.

Education in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[letzrockexpress]

Final point: has anyone considered that encouraging the immigration of more Caucasian, educated Christians by whatever means necessary might be beneficial to our society? Maybe there are more of them that want to get out of certain parts of Europe.

WOW! Just WOW!!!! Hey, Snow White Cleaners called.. Your hood is ready...