Personal Conveyance Use Of Truck

MYGIA

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
In the past under other threads I have read banter and debate regarding personal conveyance use of one’s truck when not under dispatch or load, and the need to not log this as on duty driving time. Most of what I have read was that it is frequently done, but I have never read anything as to how it is logged.

Here is the scenario: One is parked at a t/s from 10 PM Saturday until 6 AM Monday. ( 2 hours shy of a 34-hour restart). At 6 AM Monday they wish to drive 45 –60 minutes in order to keep an appointment for personal business. They do so, and by 9 AM have returned to the same t/s where they had previously been parked.

  • How would one log the use of the vehicle from 6 AM – 9 AM? As off duty?

  • Would this then be a continuation of the 32 hours, now becoming 35 hours and constitute a re-start?

  • If while driving between 6 AM – 9 AM by chance you are stopped and asked to show your log, what explanation would you offer for not having logged any PTI or driving time and that you are still showing Off Duty? Would it be, that you are not under a load or dispatch and that you are using the truck for personal conveyance?

Please advise. Thank you.
 

BigRed32771

Expert Expediter
Here is the scenario: One is parked at a t/s from 10 PM Saturday until 6 AM Monday. ( 2 hours shy of a 34-hour restart). At 6 AM Monday they wish to drive 45 –60 minutes in order to keep an appointment for personal business. They do so, and by 9 AM have returned to the same t/s where they had previously been parked.

  • How would one log the use of the vehicle from 6 AM – 9 AM? As off duty?

  • Would this then be a continuation of the 32 hours, now becoming 35 hours and constitute a re-start?

  • If while driving between 6 AM – 9 AM by chance you are stopped and asked to show your log, what explanation would you offer for not having logged any PTI or driving time and that you are still showing Off Duty? Would it be, that you are not under a load or dispatch and that you are using the truck for personal conveyance?

Please advise. Thank you.

My understanding would be as follows:

At 6 AM Monday the driver(s) would mark logs showing Off-Duty. They are then free to use truck for personal conveyance. According to the FMCSA there is no set limit on distance which may be driven under this situation, merely an expectation that the usage be "reasonable." The personal business must be truly personal, and not related to the trucking business or truck maintenance, of course. Upon return to the original t/s location, they would either mark back into the sleeper or, if they go into the facility to eat or otherwise recreate, remain off-duty as appropriate.

Because the usage of the truck for personal conveyance is considered as "Off-Duty Time," the drivers would have reached a cumulative 34 hours of off duty and sleeper time as of 8 AM, and would therefore have a 34 hour Restart available on their duty clocks. Whichever driver goes on duty when a dispatch is accepted would begin a new 14 hour day at that time, with no accumulated duty time dragging behind.

If stopped and challenged by an authority, the explanation would indeed be that the truck is unladen (personal conveyance is only possible when not loaded) and being used for personal use. It might be very handy to have the regs at hand and available in this case. I usually try to avoid running by or through a scale when doing personal use just for the sake of minimizing the possibilities of having to explain things.

If the drivers accepted a load which required an immediate departure toward pickup, it would be necessary to change duty status to on-duty at that point and mark the PTI. Because there was no expectation of dispatch and departure and rather an expectation of return to the point of origin, the period of time between 6 AM and the time of dispatch would remain off duty. Be prepared to show the dispatch offer and acceptance, with the time received just in case someone wants an explanation of how you moved from point A to point B while remaining off-duty.

Please note that I am not a lawyer or a government agent. Don't try to argue this case by saying "Well, Doug told me I could." I did do a fair amount of due diligence on this matter recently, however, and this is my understanding, subject to being corrected by anyone with more knowledge or authority.

Hope it helps.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
One of the problems I see with personal conveyance is we have these HUGE FedEx signs all over our truck. If we get in an accident while on personal conveyance who are they going to sue? Can we explain to the lawyer we were just going down to the grocery store for a loaf of bread? Will the lawyers want to see all of our history in our log book? Will the huge FedEx sign say they have money lets sue the company? We have not been through this situation so I can only speculate on how this could be handled.

With the new QC you have off-drv that you can use for the 45 minutes as soon as you go one second over the 45 minutes you go to on duty driving.
 

BigRed32771

Expert Expediter
One of the problems I see with personal conveyance is we have these HUGE FedEx signs all over our truck. If we get in an accident while on personal conveyance who are they going to sue? Can we explain to the lawyer we were just going down to the grocery store for a loaf of bread? Will the lawyers want to see all of our history in our log book? Will the huge FedEx sign say they have money lets sue the company? We have not been through this situation so I can only speculate on how this could be handled.

With the new QC you have off-drv that you can use for the 45 minutes as soon as you go one second over the 45 minutes you go to on duty driving.

When I was talking with the logging department about the personal conveyance issue this past spring I came away with the clear impression that the primary reason for the draconian (look it up) interpretation that FDCC was placing on the regs had to do with liability concerns. For the company, I mean. I don't think they were that worried about my liability.

Oh, and I think I've come to realize that in case of an accident that involves lawyers, my log books will only be the beginning of "discovery" as they seek to blame the "evil truck and its driver" for whatever transpired. Regardless of on-duty or off-duty driving status.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
FedEX signs I am sure looks really good to a lawyer as they have deep pockets. Us as O/O are small beans as we have very small pockets.

I know when push comes to shove I am going to be looking our for our concerns not FCC they are on their own. I believe that this is a two way street and we would also be treated the same.

As you say the evil truck and the evil driver will be to blame by both sides in this case. I think we have bought much of this on ourselves. Many drivers drive illegal and go out of their way to brag about it. When we listen to the radio, sit in the truck stop, or even strike up a conversation with another driver this often is spoke about with awe in their voices over what they have accomplished. We are outlawed in many parking lots as we cannot walk over to a trashcan to throw away our trash, we cannot walk in to a building we would rather urinate on our tires or worse. We have big teeth on our grills and see how mean we can look going down the road. We have to bring about change on how the professional driver is viewed on how we conduct ourselves. Until then we will remain the evil truck and evil driver and we are easy pickings by the lawyers.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
One of the problems I see with personal conveyance is we have these HUGE FedEx signs all over our truck. If we get in an accident while on personal conveyance who are they going to sue? Can we explain to the lawyer we were just going down to the grocery store for a loaf of bread? Will the lawyers want to see all of our history in our log book? Will the huge FedEx sign say they have money lets sue the company? We have not been through this situation so I can only speculate on how this could be handled.

With the new QC you have off-drv that you can use for the 45 minutes as soon as you go one second over the 45 minutes you go to on duty driving.

The insurance you have when not under load is what will be used. As to the Fed getting sued, anything is fair game. Whether they win or not is another story.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Dave, you are right so why would the company not want to protect their interests by curtailing our personal conveyance to minimize their liability.

Nothing has changed with the EOBR from paper logs we just now being held accountable when our truck moves.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Because they aren't directing the movement of the vehicle when someone is on PC. The liability shifts to the driver. Doesn't mean they won't get sued, but their exposure is much more limited when there is no directive from them.
Anyone can sue anything and everyone, but to win a decision is a much different animal.
On something like this, you only represent the carrier when you have one of their loads on.
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Dave what is the personal conveyance time at Panther that is allowed?

What is the criteria before you can take personal conveyance time?

Do you know if there has been any problems with this?

How did any company handle personal conveyance time legally before the EOBR?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
How would personal conveyance time come into play when a truck is predispatched? Like now, we were predispatched on Friday for Monday, are we considered under load? Are we under load only when we pick up? We are not allowed at FDCC to take the drivers out of service when predispatched. Too many gray areas.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
They pretty much had the PC at the time of the switch. Panther currently allows 30 minutes when not under load. At the time (several years ago) is where the 30 minutes came from. May move to 45 minutes but hasn't been done as of yet.
For clarification, the 30 minutes is per driver.

If you are pre-dispatched, that is interpreted as being under a load.
This would be the most objectable part. This complicates trying to do a 34 hour restart for both drivers if a team and waiting through the weekend for a load that say picks up Monday.
 
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TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Layout how do you drive around now on your 34 hour restart on the paperlogs? (or would you rather not say)

The laws have not changed with the EOBR it just does not let you have creative logging anymore.

While pre assigned on a load my interpretation would be you are under a load.

It will be interesting to find out what FCC has to say about this situation as I do not know.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Layout how do you drive around now on your 34 hour restart on the paperlogs? (or would you rather not say)

The laws have not changed with the EOBR it just does not let you have creative logging anymore.

While pre assigned on a load my interpretation would be you are under a load.

It will be interesting to find out what FCC has to say about this situation as I do not know.


We don't all that often. If and when we want to do something that requires a lot of driving, like head for the water to fish or do some extended site seeing we will rent a car. Still driving the same miles, same amount of time, but it does not count in a car. That in itself points out just how silly some of these regs are. You could drive your personal car for 20 hours, get in your truck and still be legal to drive your 11.

I do think FCC considers us under load but I am not quite sure.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
using your truck as your personal vehicle,during time off,was told to me.first you have to be out of service,and dot signs covered.if you would drive to another location,you have to be dispatched from the original location,but here's the hard part.if the vehicle your in,can haul a load from where ever you are,you will have to log.If your driving just the bob tail,since it doesn't have the trailer,this can be used as your personal vehicle
 

MYGIA

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
My understanding would be as follows:

The personal business must be truly personal, and not related to the trucking business or truck maintenance, of course.


Hope it helps.

Thank you Doug. Yes, it was very helpful. I have never driven my truck as PC and logged it as Off Duty. I have always logged all my driving time and had to manage the 14 hour and 70 hour rules accordingly.

Since my appointment on Monday is "trucking related", i.e., to renew some credentials, I will have to log it as on duty and driving. Better safe than sorry.:)
 

BigRed32771

Expert Expediter
re: whatever

Thank you Doug. Yes, it was very helpful. I have never driven my truck as PC and logged it as Off Duty. I have always logged all my driving time and had to manage the 14 hour and 70 hour rules accordingly.

Since my appointment on Monday is "trucking related", i.e., to renew some credentials, I will have to log it as on duty and driving. Better safe than sorry.:)

I would agree that better safe than sorry in this case rules. If you were driving your personal automobile to go get those credentials renewed, no problem. But because the business in view is business related, and you will be driving the business vehicle, Logging it and starting your day makes the most sense.

Regarding loaded vs. dispatched, in my discussions with the FMCSA, the issue came down to whether or not the freight was on the truck. If you picked it up on Friday and delivered Monday 100 miles away, you could not move the vehicle around for shopping on Saturday or Sunday and call it off duty. Dispatched Friday for a Monday pickup is different. You can be off-duty and use personal conveyance up until the moment you need to leave your temporary base at the truck stop or Walmart, or wherever, and then go on duty at that point. As to why our carrier won't let us go out of service once we're dispatched, that I can't explain very well. If I spend the weekend at a relative's home waiting for that Monday pickup, under those rules I can't have a beer with the BBQ on Saturday even though it will be another day and a half to pick-up. It makes no sense.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Re: whatever

I would agree that better safe than sorry in this case rules. If you were driving your personal automobile to go get those credentials renewed, no problem. But because the business in view is business related, and you will be driving the business vehicle, Logging it and starting your day makes the most sense.

Regarding loaded vs. dispatched, in my discussions with the FMCSA, the issue came down to whether or not the freight was on the truck. If you picked it up on Friday and delivered Monday 100 miles away, you could not move the vehicle around for shopping on Saturday or Sunday and call it off duty. Dispatched Friday for a Monday pickup is different. You can be off-duty and use personal conveyance up until the moment you need to leave your temporary base at the truck stop or Walmart, or wherever, and then go on duty at that point. As to why our carrier won't let us go out of service once we're dispatched, that I can't explain very well. If I spend the weekend at a relative's home waiting for that Monday pickup, under those rules I can't have a beer with the BBQ on Saturday even though it will be another day and a half to pick-up. It makes no sense.

Much of this does not make sense. Right down to the basic point that we are not trusted to be smart enough to know when we are too tired to drive. Not trusted to work within existing law without being watched 24/7. I have not needed a babysitter since I was 7. Don't need one now.
 

60MPH

Expert Expediter
What about this, you are a independent in a st or tt what would stop someone from deadheading to a better area to wait for a load and not logging it "so you could relocate and after a break have your full 11/14 in the better area also you would not be burning your 70". Do you have to come back to the area you went off duty in?? or could ya just start your log book when and where you wanted. You are unladen could you just say that you were using it as a pc? Senario, you drop miami no hours left on your 11/14 you go off duty on you log, you drive off duty "pc" to orlando go into sleeper for 10 hrs. bang you see a load orlando to spartansburg, sc you take it. How do you think the DOT man would interpret your pc use from miami to orlando?? I am only asking because I know of someone that did exactly this in a st as a independent. he did not get stopped by DOT I added that!
 
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