"Patriots" on wheels

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Really don't want to beat a dead horse but I saw this outfit on a TV news clip covering a funeral for a soldier in Kenosha yesterday. What I said earlier still stands, a bunch of 50 yr. old former disgruntled VietNam vets showing up at funerals to wave the flag. They think they were slighted, so doing their patriotic duty now to provide cover for the latest big oil war...anyone check the fuel price lately?
We should mourn the dead with respect and sadness that they died for a war based on lies.
 

lanier1

Seasoned Expediter
If thats how you feel why don't you just walk up to one of those disgruntled Viet Nam vets and tell them what your opinion of them is. Be sure and let the family of the soldier the funeral is for know how you feel as well. I am sure all their lives will be enriched by your heartfelt words...

It saddens me that some people take the Viet Nam vets the way you do. These guys are out doing what they consider an honor to do.
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
Simon: I didn't see the same news clip you saw, but I think you are way off base thinking that Vietnam Veterans are all disgruntled and appear at funerals to demonstrate support for a big oil war, or for the current Administration, for that matter. Vietnam era, and other military veterans, appear at funerals for one reason only; to pay their respect and honor the service of a fallen comrade-in-arms.

Vietnam Veterans returned home from that conflict without fanfare and were generally treated with a lack of respect for performing a duty into which they were drafted. Most of them sucked it in and got on with their lives. Some joined fraternal organizations and continue, to this day, to publicize the inequitable treatment of injuries and ailments suffered as a result of their participation in that conflict. Much of their effort has resulted in the considerable improvement in military medical facilities and injury treatment.

I have no problem with your political beliefs or your position on the cause or purpose of the gulf wars. I would suggest you direct your distaste, not at the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen who have performed honorably, but to the political machine that guides them into harms way.

Terry O'Connell
National Vice President
Coast Guard Combat Veterans Association
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Ya know Simon, ya didn't say much that time. Tink ya should regroup.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Simon, take heart, you are absolutely right. You are speaking of the 1 percent or so of the patriot guard? A few of them are almost assuredly what you claim. The other 98 plus percent are not at all what you claim. Don't feel badly though. You've matched the percentage correctness of Hilary, Obama, Teddy and most of all that king of fighters and self inflicted purple heart wounds Kerry.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
RE:

One very important reason as too why they show up at funerals is too keep those wacko religious hard liners from coming to the funerals and demonstrating that this serviceman was killed due to God being upset at Gays. They come out of Wichta Kansas and demonstrate with signs saying "We are glad that this serviceman was killed" etc. Where I live they were planning a huge demonstration and the Patroit guys showed up to block them from the funeral and burial.
 

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
"I have no problem with your political beliefs or your position on the cause or purpose of the gulf wars. I would suggest you direct your distaste, not at the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen who have performed honorably, but to the political machine that guides them into harms way."

This is my point- I have not directed distaste at the soldiers, et. al, in any way. Their deaths have been in vain, for now 3 wars based on fabrications and lies. Yes the Viet Vets were drafted, and mostly those who had no 2S deferment to protect them. I'm just saying that now some come out to wave the flag, for what gets PORTRAYED in the MEDIA, as support for the war.
This at a time when about 75% of the American people want us out. Support for the troops does not have to be support for the wars that big oil and their politicians carry out.
Just look at the testimony by Tillman's brother and P. Lynch just the other day, you don't think the government tried to bolster patriotism by concocting lies about what actually happened? Patriot Guard getting used by the media...forget about the wacko fringe from Kansas!
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
RE:

I agree with rich. i think the majority of these gentlemen are trying to keep the funerals respectable and the crazys away. I've been to a few funerals here in arkansas primarliy just because i wanted to salute the man as his casket was brought by. if you have a problem with that i'm sorry. it's called respect. to repeat something that was first said during WW2 we all gave some, but some of us gave all. i hope someone will have enough respect respect for me to salute to me when i pass by in a pine box. it's just respect.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
And you thought I would not say a thing?

Terry well said, but I need to point out something also.

Some of the Vietnam Vets were not drafted; they enlisted on their on accord because of their beliefs. Most of the Vets of that time all enlisted, only a few were drafted. As with the present on going war, many then reenlisted to stay in to victory. The only let down was at that time, the same thing that is now being repeated, a lack of support from the congress and the media.

Many things surrounding the issues of going to war have been twisted, like Simon has mentioned but he as with others failed to see it was not one man’s decision to go to war and that the lies and fabrications allegedly used can only be counted as a very small part of what we, the public knows about the path that led up to going to war. The congress and the president not only have to keep things secret but they all seen the same information, they all had access to other countries intelligence and they all made decisions that they all knew would be correct for the country at the time. It all matters to understand how this actually works and to leave the fantasy world of ‘one man - one decision’ behind to enter the real world that it takes many to make decisions in our system.

The sad thing is, in every war we have ever had to deal with, we had the same dissention, the same ‘they lied’ issues – even with the war between the states. In the past we have had the flag wavers and the neutrality groups who were for nothing, we always had our propaganda to bolster patriotism but reality is there is a marked difference in the society of the past and today and the people who know this the best are the same ones who are trying to destroy us today. They see the opportunities to use the media to force a gap in our country, to counter the positive things with negative things and their friends are the very people who have more to lose with any downfall of this country, the media.

Even in WW2, it was about money not facts, we went to war for money and FDR’s friends (just read the NYT of the time with the complaints about the OPM) with Vietnam, it was Johnson and the big military complex with the millions that they got and today it is about oil and Bush’s friends. All of this is not fact, especially the last example.

As for 75% of the people wanting us out, I don’t see this. I see that the polls used are setup for a specific result and most of the time does not really reflect anything except an opinion of a limited amount of people who were in some cases hand picked. I really think that if 3 quarters of the people of the United States wants to get out of Iraq, we would with no doubt be out. The fear of a backlash by the people in Congress would force the issue to be closed very quickly but the Congress knows the stakes and the reality of the situation and always have.

As for any testimony, it is all about the media, Lynch as much as I am glad to see she was alright has no reason to speak up about anything, she was rescued for a reason and should be thankful of that, not critical of the country for the effort made on her behalf that was not made for others. I am sorry if this sounds insensitive, but every country on this earth has made it a point to do something like this and to criticize the need to raise patriotism, which is their job, was completly wrong for her to do and insulting to many. Tillman's case on the other hand was not handled right and I am not too happy with things there. As I said before, sorry for the loss but if this situation receives some special treatment due to him being a former professional athlete, it is wrong and everyone else who died under similar circumstances should receive the same treatment.

The bottom line is this, if we want to see soldiers come home, we must support them their mission and their leader to get them home. The more time we spend complaining about things will be more time that we have them over there. We must not tolerate the despicable acts of few and if a group wants to counter them, support the group who support the troops.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
RE: And you thought I would not say a thing?

75% want us out? No, they don't, that's just the media and the pollsters arranging the outcome they desire. Actually, 10 out of 7 people don't understand polls and how they work. Yes, 10 out of 7 is what I meant to say. Many of those same people are also the ones who don't understand Article Two and believe they will be safer when only the criminals have guns. FDR couldn't bring the nation far enough out of the depression. The war was a convenient way to totally solidify the nation and bring it back. That was the reason for letting Pearl Harbor be attacked.

Interesting piece on ABC World News last night. They said the latest large capture of Al Qaida (prob misspelled) vermin were trained in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and (GASP) Iraq. They basically said Iraq has been an Al Qaida factory along with the other areas.

STUPID US! Going in there for the WMD's the U.N. made it so convenient for them to move around ahead of the inspections until they could sell it all off to Syria and others. Going in there for the terrorists everyone (sic) knew weren't there, except apparently those who actually know anything and now ABC.

I'm glad the administration has the cojones to stick it out, unlike Hilary and the rest of the scum who don't care about 9/11 or anything else other than today and what politics are best played today.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
RE: And you thought I would not say a thing?

Actually Leo, most of the media does not understand how polls work either, they just like numbers and forget to tell us that only 15 people were polled at a supermarket at 3 am and 10 of those were drunk and could not remember who they are.

The sad thing is if a real poll was taken by the kids today, how many of them know who the president is.

As for FDR, you are right.

The one thing that people have not been taught in a lot a long time, if at all (I can explain the time line and why… I guess that would be too boring .. nevermind) that during the early 1930’s we almost lost the country, with the start of the depression, an unstable economy and people losing their homes, farms and business at the highest rate since 1907, we were prime for a revolution. For some reason the communist had an idea of over throwing the government and put in place where Marx actually intended for his ideals to be practiced – the United States. But at one point, that was pretty much shut down when the people in power had a rude awakening that there may be a change for anarchy.

Throughout the 30’s there were a lot of things that went on that were for the most part ‘missed’ by the media (print media that is) to protect the stability of the country and for some who are oblivious to the reality that we were lucky at that time not to have a real change in the government, even though we lost some rights during that time. The war provided a means of real stability and it was not the first time that war was used in this manner. Lincoln thought of attacking Canada to prevent the war between the states and the Europeans practice this before that time and the Romans long before that (yea I am bored sitting here, so I will write more ïŠ)

As for 100% solidification behind FDR, it never happened. There were a lot of things that he was trying to do during 1940 to prepare for war and the congress stopped him. Things like the Office of Price Administration (OPA), actually I put OPM which was wrong, War Production Board and other alphabet departments that FDR claimed to put in place were actually a compromise between Congress and FDR to prevent any appearance of improper war profiting by FDR supporters
 

dieseldiva

Veteran Expediter
RE:

>One very important reason as too why they show up at
>funerals is too keep those wacko religious hard liners from
>coming to the funerals and demonstrating that this
>serviceman was killed due to God being upset at Gays. They
>come out of Wichta Kansas and demonstrate with signs saying
>"We are glad that this serviceman was killed" etc. Where I
>live they were planning a huge demonstration and the Patroit
>guys showed up to block them from the funeral and burial.

Thank you Rich for clearing that up.


http://www.patriotguard.org/AboutUs/OurHistory/tabid/145/Default.aspx
 

Black Sheep

Expert Expediter
RE:

Polling data, like any other statistic, can be made to say whatever one wants. It might well be that 75% of the public would like to see our soldiers come home. However, the part of the poll the mainstream media doesn't report is that nearly this same percentage of people want us to be victorious is this war - not surrender or quit as the Democrats would have us believe. Our elected leaders simply can not conduct wars or foreign policy based on poll results. Most people get their information from TV and newspaper wire releases from the Associated Press, both of which are becoming more liberally biased with every passing day. They can't be expected to make sound decisions on complicated matters when they don't have good information.
 

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
RE: And you thought I would not say a thing?

"Even in WW2, it was about money not facts, we went to war for money and FDR’s friends (just read the NYT of the time with the complaints about the OPM) with Vietnam, it was Johnson and the big military complex with the millions that they got and today it is about oil and Bush’s friends..."

There's the main point. All these wars were/are based on the drive for US big money interests - the fact that they have to lie and keep secrets against the public shows they know they couldn't pull it off honestly.
After Sunni's seemed to have taken care of Al Quaida leader yesterday, they can take care of themselves. Seems we are only there to guarantee our oil interests.

Support for the troops does not have to mean support for an illegal war.
 

bamamule

Seasoned Expediter
RE: And you thought I would not say a thing?

ladybird johnston owned haliberton who owned brown and root who got most of the contrac's in nam now look who's over in iran still haven't figered out why we didn't just chase bin to iran and let them fight it out there and then go in and pick up the pices after they all slartered themselves
 
Top